Vitex Essential Oil - IT WORKS !!

[Guest guest]

Hey Martin,

 

> Chuck Woodfield said:

> >From my personal study and known safety record (see below), Vitex is

> >safer than anything you can get from the drugstore or on

> >prescription written by your competent healthcare provider.

>

> I would just like to point out that this statement is not correct.

 

I would just like to point out that you can't prove your statement so

I think that your statement (above) is incorrect. Plus the statement

you disagree with was written by a pharmacist who is used to seeing the

incompetence of many health care providers when it comes to prescribing

medications .. that is one of the things pharmacists often get upset

about and one of the things that even the American Medical Association

reported as being a leading cause of accidental death in the USA.

 

> No one has got a clue on the safety of vitex essential oil.

 

Too broad this .. get more specific. Has anyone got a clue as to it

being unsafe? There are a few hundreds of people I know of who have

used it .. and a few thousands (I'm sure) that I don't know of .. but

to date I have heard of NOT ONE single case of harm.

 

Do we have a clue as to the safety of clinical trials? Every week we

read about honest doctors getting upset because of the vested interests

in approving many drugs .. and we read of investigations uncovering the

corruption in the area of research. Martin .. I know you .. and I know

that you do not even believe what you have written here.

 

If clinical, double-blind, peer-reviewed, so-called independent testing

was so damn surefire then why are as many drugs recalled as there are

drugs approved? And why do people die from approved drugs. You cannot

give that much credit to researchers .. they are not omnipotent .. and

many are corruptable .. especially if they have a home mortagage to pay.

 

> It is only the herb and the alcohol extract that have been studied.

 

So .. what did they do before it was studied? For that matter, where

did the information come from that would direct researchers to study

any natural product? The answer is .. folks were using them so they

decided to follow up on the results. But they were not researched by

the Gold Star Method you are prescribing here .. few were.

 

NO essential oil has been studied according to the standards you are

writing about here .. and few have been studied at all .. does that mean

they should not be used? I know your answer is .. they should not be

used .. and I don't buy that. Peppermint has not been studied. Half

the oils used in Aromatherapy have not a single minute of study

conducted on them .. and those that have any study at all are almost

always studied (to some half fast degree) relating to dermal use .. not

sniffing and not ingestion and not diffusing.

 

Since many of the " studies " you speak of involve 60-65 people .. if any

competent medical authority reports that tests showed that 75-85 people

reported no irritation or sensitization after application of a 5% or 8%

dilution of Vitex would you then say it had been studied? Maybe you

should .. maybe you shouldn't .. but what kind of studies do we need?

Are there any competent studies to report on other essential oils?

Pick a dozen .. please .. and report. I mean scientific studies that

followed up and all that good idealistic humma-humma.

 

> Why use an oil on which there is no sound safety data or sound

> therapeutics when the herbal extract has been used effectively for

> hundreds of years?

 

Why use essential oils at all? But Vitex EO has been used for 20 or

more years that I know of .. maybe longer .. America is not the only

country that has used distilled Vitex EO. What point must one cross to

say its safe .. is it 25 years or 50 years or 100 years?

 

> However, herbalists know that even the unrefined herb is not without

> its side effects; a highly concentrated essential oil may have adverse

> effects that we do not yet understand.

 

Does this mean .. that we should never use it .. or any other EO for

that matter .. until it is studied and we know that there will be no

adverse side effects? We can wait till hell freezes over because there

are two major problems with that recommendation. First .. we must use

human critters .. not in vivo or invitro testing .. if the test is to

be credible .. and that is even a grey area because the medicos and the

researchers are now fighting amongst themselves on whether we can even

use rats or pissants and would it be credible if we did .. its a matter

of ethical conflict and extrapolation of species to species .. with no

clear right or wrong. Second .. why would anyone study a medication

that can't be patented? It takes millions of bucks and years of study

and even the greasing of some palms to get FDA approval for a medication

hat might be pulled the following year by the FDA because they decided

it was very hazardous .. even after the so-called clinical testing.

 

> The use of this oil internally is playing with fire over the long term

> reproductive health of pre-menopausal women. Even sniffing the oil -

> although less of a hazard - could cause problems if used long term.

 

This is an assumption on your part .. and its based on your stand and

position that if it ain't tested .. it ain't safe. I think that stand

is at best, idealistic .. and overstated as for not being safe for use.

 

> Applying it to the skin in fixed oils nothing will be absorbed,

> although in a cream possibly some may be.

 

Martin .. I go along with the fact that WHOLE OILS do not absorb .. its

got to do with molecular size and other issues ... plus the skin being

the largest protective organ of the body .. but we cannot say that it

WILL NOT absorb .. or none of it will absorb .. that is .. without

testing .. am I not repeating what you so often write?

 

> This is one of those oils that I eluded to in previous mails. Tiny

> snippets of uncoordinated and uncorroborated information are seized

> on by oil suppliers in order to create a demand for an oil.

 

This standard statement of yours that is getting old .. and its damn

insulting. I did not create the demand .. Marge did not create the

demand .. whoever else of this list sells it (not sure who?) did not

create the demand. The demand has been around for many years .. my

distiller here in Turkey had sold a lot of Vitex EO to Europe for more

than twenty years prior to me even knowing what Vitex was.

 

> At a later date I will do a review of all the claims made for this

> oil and particularly on the so called " trials " which actually amount

> to zilch. See below for an independent review of the published

> papers.

 

This too will be an opinion .. and perhaps a biased opinion.

 

> Lastly, no properly qualified herbalist would ever use a single herb

> such as vitex to treat menopausal problems. The aim is to balance

> the body and that can only be done by a combination of herbs aimed at

> the individual. Using any single herb is just a substitute for

> conventional drugs, i.e. take this drug and it will cure this

> illness - the magic bullet approach.

 

It appears that you (and Anya) have opinions that herbalists are the

most knowledgeble people regarding use of natural products .. you begin

many sentences with praise for them. So should we conclude that your

opinions are coming from the mentality of a herbalist and they might not

coincide with opinions of those who aren't herbalists?

 

> The way vitex oil is being promoted is the opposite to what true

> traditional healing is about.

 

I'm not sure that use of Vitex is all even about healing .. I think its

about just what you guys are against .. reducing symptoms of the

problem. Is it menopause that's the problem or is it the symptoms of

menopause that's the problem?

 

I don't know the answer .. but I expect the ladies would say it's the

symptoms that are kicking them in the butt.

 

We know that with a cold or flu .. all of the TESTED treatments do no

more than treat the symptoms .. that is what we want relief from. Treat

it and it goes away in a week or so but if you don't treat it then it

takes seven or so days. But symptoms of menopause don't go away by

themselves like a cold goes away.

 

My comments continue .. below ......

 

> Martin Watt

> Medical Herbalist.

> http://www.aromamedical.com

> --------------------------

>

> Re the vitex anthology as reported by Barbara Chopin Lucks

> Review by Maria Liz Balchin

>

> The main problems are:

>

> " No double-blind controlled study, no randomization, everybody knew

> what they were using and everybody could swop from one oil to the

> other. Apart from that all participants had a positive attitude. "

> Almost directly quoted from the article.

 

I don't disagree with this .. and it could have been an issue for the

courts if it had been otherwise .. violation of rights .. and ethics

violations. She told them all up front what was going down.

 

> Consequently, the only real outcome was placebo.

 

How can you make such a positive statement .. incredible! Do you

refuse to accept that there MIGHT, MAYBE, POSSIBLY be some REAL

therapeutic value in the chemical components being administered?

 

> However, the placebo effect is a very potent factor, even in

> conventional medicine where it can account for up to 90% of the

> effect. Nothing wrong with that, therefore, except that this clinical

> trial didn't measure what it set out to do because of this effect.

 

Barbara is not a medical researcher .. she doesn't even sell EO as

far as I know .. but what she did is a helluva lot better than ..

 

1. Standing around with our hands in our pockets or our fingers in

our noses doing nothing .. and there is NO CHANCE of you or me or any

other person on this list EVER seeing GOLD STANDARD Clinical Trials

on Vitex .. so what she did was outstanding and likely to be the only

real research we see .. aside from that conducted by Dr. Chuck and

a few medical folks like him.

 

2. Its better to seek truth as best one can than it is to be a critic

of those who seek truth .. or to be one who seeks only falsehoods.

 

> The effect of a placebo on hormonal changes in the body can be

> immense. This effect was evident in some of the remarks made in the

> article.

 

Good show .. then it worked. If it works .. it works. But then .. we

don't really know why do we? But we think we know why some of the many

prescription drugs work .. and they are tested .. and they still KILL!

 

> It would be nice to see the composition of the oils, also who

> analysed them.

 

I have that for my Vitex Leaf and Vitex Fruit oils .. analyzed by

Professor Baser .. I can send them .. but what would that tell you?

 

> Other problems with the survey include:

>

> The different ages of women

> Different stages of menopause, if any

 

They didn't hold their mouths right .. like shooting foul balls. ;-p

 

> The participation of a child of 11 with her mother (legality?)

 

Yes .. it is legal!!!

 

> Are the oils toxicologically tested? very doubtful...

 

Martin .. I am aware of but two ways that toxic dosages are determined.

One is no longer conducted .. the LD-50 tests on animals .. keep giving

the critters more and more till 50% of them die .. the other hasn't been

used in a while .. not since Hitler .. unless maybe Saddam used it.

If there are other ways to do it .. please lemme know.

 

> What conventional/non-conventional drugs were taken by each woman v

> the result obtained, as generalisations are not very relevant

> otherwise

 

Ask Barbara if she knew this .. maybe she did .. there were some medical

types involved in portions of the study.

 

> How exactly was the oil taken in each case: including frequency of

> use and dosage (this was vaguely given as licked off palm or smelt;

> was it taken any other way?)

 

I expect she could answer that too.

 

> As one third of women stopped the drug during the study and were

> therefore very unhappy with it or badly affected, what medical follow-

> up was undertaken to determine the toxicity effects?

 

What medical follow up has been conducted to determine if many years

after dermal application of an EO .. the person paid to participate in

the test developed sensitization to one of the oils? NONE!

 

> Conclusion:

> This is a useless study of the placebo effect of two extracts of

> Vitex on women who were already strong believers of Essential oil

> efficacy.

 

To say its useless is another incredible statement!

 

If your perfect system was to be the norm for use of essential oils ..

or even herbs .. then we would have to fold now!!!!!!! Butch