Digest Number 1187

[Guest guest]

I checked 3 places, and they all show Zhi Gan Cao, the only typo in the

Mitchell book is the english translation leaves off the zhi from the pin

yin translation (only shows the characters for gan cao, followed by the

pin yin) in the parenthesis in the middle of page 92. The chinese text

in that clause 35 does show gan cao yi liang (zhi)

 

 

Geoff

 

> Re: RE: Shang Han Sweating

>

> Z'ev

>

> Bensky also uses honey-fried licorice. I think it is more of

> a dosage issue.

> At 3g, the objective is to harmonize the herbs and protect

> the spleen/stomach

> and, (Will's theory - potentiate the uptake of the other

> herbs via sugar

> pathways. Ginger will do this via the vasodillatory effect of

> it's spicy

> flavor.)

>

> Will Morris

>

> > Actually, you are right here. There is a typo in the Mitchell text

> > that states that mix-fried licorice (zhi gan cao) is used.

> But in the

> > Chinese, it is raw gan cao. If it were mix-fried gan cao,

> it could be

> > used to replenish fluids and supplement qi depleted by

> sweating, less

> > so with raw gan cao.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarification, Geoffrey.

 

My Chinese copy also shows zhi gan cao.. ..but the Mitchell/Wiseman

does show gan cao (in the Chinese).

 

I've seen this confusion of gan cao and zhi gan cao in a few other

places in various books. It might seem like hair splitting, but it

does have some importance.

 

If so, despite the small dosage, zhi gan cao does supplement qi and

fluids. While not an important aspect of ma huang tang, we do have to

say that, perhaps, Dr. Zhang Ji was thinking of supporting fluids and

qi that might be dissipated by sweating.

 

I'd be interested in seeing other commentaries to see if they touch on

this. This is only my speculation.

 

 

On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:23 PM, Geoffrey Hudson wrote:

 

>

> I checked 3 places, and they all show Zhi Gan Cao, the only typo in the

> Mitchell book is the english translation leaves off the zhi from the

> pin

> yin translation (only shows the characters for gan cao, followed by the

> pin yin) in the parenthesis in the middle of page 92. The chinese text

> in that clause 35 does show gan cao yi liang (zhi)

[Guest guest]

, " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

 

> If so, despite the small dosage, zhi gan cao does supplement qi and

> fluids.

 

can anyone think of another formula where zhi gan cao, in the absence of any

other herbs affecting qi or spleen is used by itself to supplement spleen and

promote fluids. All the other formulas I can think of contain herbs like da

zao,

ren shen, fu ling, bai zhu. When used by itself, I was not aware that it had

much of this function. I am pretty sure I have also never seen zhi gan cao

listed by itself as a modification to a formula in order to add the principle

of qi

tonification (unless the addition creates a combination like ren shen and zhi

gan cao). Isn't the use of zhi gan cao as qi tonic a perfect example of the

importance of dui yao. I have no sources available to me right now, so I could

be wrong. Z'ev, can you cite a commentary to back up your position on ma

huang tang.

 

[Guest guest]

As I said earlier, it is my own thoughts, not a commentary.

 

Here is a interesting quote from Wang Ang, taking from the Blue Poppy

" Divine Farmer's Materia Medica: " mixed-fried licorice supplements the

triple burner original qi and dissipates exterior cold. Put in a

harmonizing formula, it supplements and boosts. Put in a sweating

formula, it resolves the muscles. Put in a cooling formula, it drains

evil heat. Put in a precipitating formula, it moderates the righteous

qi. Put it a moistening formula, it nourishes the yin blood. "

 

In addition, Jiao Shu-de says the following in " Ten Lectures in the Use

of Medicinals " : combined with warm, acrid, effusing and dissipating

medicinals such as ma huang, gui zhi, and xing ren, it makes their

natures more harmonious and moderate and safeguards the stomach qi, in

order to avoid damaging the fluids through the promotion of sweating " .

I think this makes my case pretty well.

 

So, we see here that zhi gan cao potentiates the effects of other

medicinals according to the main focus of the prescription. However,

in my mind, this doesn't negate the ability of zhi gan cao to preserve

yin and qi in a prescription like ma huang tang.

 

 

 

 

 

On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 08:51 AM, wrote:

 

> Z'ev, can you cite a commentary to back up your position on ma

> huang tang.

[Guest guest]

we are taught that unless there is sore throat and

yellow discharge, it is most likely wind-cold, if the pulse

and tongue concur. I guess a sore thorat could be present

in a wind-heat dryness presentation too, though.

 

I've never given Ma Huang Tang to someone, even if they

have wind cold symptoms. It seems like everyone around here

takes Gan Mao Ling or Lian Qiao patents anyway, on the

assumption that things will quickly progress to heat.

 

If your patients come in with wind cold, do you give Ma

Huang Tang often?

 

I find that treatments for dryness invasion succeed

where typically

those for windheat fail. and as stated, that wind cold is

by far the most

common initiator. In fact, the majority of my cold

patients have first been

treated to no avail with formulas for windheat.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, Gabrielle Mathieu <gabriellemathieu>

wrote:

> we are taught that unless there is sore throat and

> yellow discharge, it is most likely wind-cold,

 

I expect the throat to be quite sore and red and/or fever and/or yellow

discharge from onset. If yellow discharge arises after a few days, this may be

phlegm heat or wind cold interacting with internal heat. they are treated

differently. I think it is important to have some true exterior symptoms to

justify

surface releasing and significant heat to risk harming the wei qi (an aspect of

yang qi) with chilling formulas like yin qiao san. While I see plenty of heat

symptoms after a few hours to a few days in my gan mao patients, I just rarely

see these right at the onset, so I suspect the heat was not fromthe initial

pathogenic invasion.

 

I think aversion to wind and cold to be important considerations in wind cold,

not merely the absence of yellow discharges and sore throat. In fact, many

wind cold patients have scratchy throats, not painful or red. The wind causes

a scratchy sensation (just like wind makes one itch on the skin). Preexisting

phlegm or phlegm due to wind cold blocking lung D & D may congest the head

causing swollen glands and throat pain, but not necessarily with heat at the

onset.

 

>

> If your patients come in with wind cold, do you give Ma

> Huang Tang often?

 

pretty much never. jing fang bai du san is often effective or I write my own

formulas to address certain key sx like sinus congestion.

 

[Guest guest]

crisziggy

Thanks so much, that is exactly what I am looking for!!!! Now if I can figure

out how to see a price list!?!?!?! Thanks sOOOOO much, Shon

 

 

SHON RANAY BROWN /kizzzykizzzy9

 

mamawpapawssoapkettle/

 

AND NOW ABIDETH FAITH, HOPE & LOVE, THESE THREE; BUT THE GREATEST OF

THESE IS LOVE.

1 CORINTIANS 13:13

 

 

 

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