Guest guest Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 > Hello people, > I've been very busy over the last few days so have not had a chance > to respond, but today (by accident) I've got more time so I've > actually got time to respond rather than think about it or start but > not finish posts. > > >I have absolutely no problem with vitex oil being investigated for > >what it can do. What I have a very big problem with is this > >investigation being done by amateurs. I do not mean that in a nasty > >way, fact is to do this job properly and safely requires structured > >toxicological and efficacy trials. There is no short cut to that if > >one is looking at possible pharmacological actions rather than > >subjective psychological effects. Sure, we don't have that research > >on many commonly used oils, but most of those have been in constant > >use for hundreds of years without significant toxicological > >problems. What worries me enormously with oral use of vitex oil is > >possible long-term harm caused by unnatural over-stimulation of the > >hormone producing organs. > > I agree that the article that Judy posted should not have been > published in the health food shop newsletter in the first place as it > only tells half the story, but in the papers that are being/may be > published, oral use is not recommended. > As to the research being done by amateurs: with any luck, other > people will read the paper(s) who DO have the money and knowledge and > time to conduct more clinical trials, and will be spurred on to do so > by this research. I thought it should be written up so the research > would not be lost, and later on Aromatherapy Today decided to publish > it because the editor, John Kerr, liked the way the study was > conducted (questionnaire basis). > > >In reply to your question on how we can progress this issue. The > >only way forward is proper trials and that can only be done by a > >professional organisation or company; there are non in the > >aromatherapy trade capable of funding and organising that. In my > >opinion the only way this can progress in a safe professional manner > >is if a large company already in the supplement field decided to > >conduct trials. However since several already supply the herb in > >tablets and capsules as well as having already sponsored trials, I > >have my doubts they will be interested. For example Gerrard House > >conducted trials on vitex herb years ago and those results were > >published, as have been several subsequent trials. The Herb > >Research Founder in Boulder can provide (for a small sum) a whole > >heap of references on research on the herb. > >http://www.herbs.org/index.html I highly recommend them for those > >who want good references to follow up, rather than the typical > >aromatherapy trade hash. > > The CTNM paper (in which Janina Sorensen has written background > information) calls for further research on the use of the EO and herb > in menopause (most prior research on herbal Vitex has been to do with > menstruation difficulties). The conclusion also states, as its first > sentence, " Clearly this data has to be viewed in light of the small > number of participants (23), as well as the totally subjective nature > of both use and measurement of success. " There are 22 references, > most of which are scientific papers. > By the way, I don't think you'll find much existing research on Vitex leaf. > I'm probably going to be very busy again for the next few days so > will be quiet again but following the discussion. > Lowana -------------- Barbara Lucks wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > I'm back on for just a day to briefly address some of the issues surrounding > the debate over the Vitex Anthology (never presented as a study--only as a > collection of feedback from others). Fortunately, I am not a professional > researcher and I funded the whole thing out of my own pocket. I have no > career to defend here, and I knew the work would draw criticism from some > scientists--others have praised it. Personally, I know how well the oil > works for me, and I still get e-mail regularly from women who are having > good results, so I was not looking for validation, especially from people > who have no experience whatsoever with the oil. I can sit back and > appreciate the varying points of view. > > I thank all of you for your comments. And no, the story is not over. I > hope it is just beginning, and it does indeed appear that more research is > in progress. The 23 stories I collected (plus some 12-15 ladies who have > contacted me subsequent to the project) to not constitute a large sampling. > But a pattern did emerge---a pattern did emerge. > > For those of you who are scrambling to get a supply of vitex and start > aggressive personal use, or sell it to your clients with claims of likely > success. WATCH OUT! This is a powerful and very subtle oil. It is still > teaching me its tricks, and I have been using it for two years. It appears > that there may be marked differences in action between leaf oil and berry > oil, so know which oil you are using. Also, it is not uncommon to use the > oil regularly for 2-5 weeks before feeling an effect. Other effects seem > quite rapid. All of us who regularly work with e.o.'s know these variations, > but vitex can often take longer than other natural substances to take > effect. Research to date indicates that it works by direct action on the > pituitary to normalize progesterone levels. > > A woman using vitex oil may experience greater emotional peace and mental > clarity, improved sleep, stablilized weight, reduction or elimination of hot > flashes/night sweats, regulation of irregular menses, and improved vaginal > tone and lubrication. OR she may experience worse hot flashes than she ever > imagined, unwanted bleeding, and technicolor nightmares. My suggestion: if > you want to try this oil, start with inhalation or highly diluted use in > body creams. Listen to the messages your body is sending you. Don't go > selling it to anyone without making sure they know it is an experimental > oil, no results are guaranteed, and medical monitoring is a MUST with any > internal use or use of the oil with any form of hormonal supplementation. > Don't mix it with birth control pills--you could negate the b.c. pill. > > Until two days ago, I was supplying a full copy of my work to anyone who > posted me privately with a personal need for the information. Silly me. Due > to abuse of my work and disrespect for the copyright, I am no longer > supplying this information to anyone. I am looking long and hard at how I > share--even if I share--the massive amount of information that we did NOT > have room for in the paper. > > Such a format will have to serve the public, will have to honor the oil and > its power, and will have to serve me. I do know that the internet is NOT an > honorable place for this work. However, I do want to thank thank the > anonymous slimebag who breeched the copyright agreement for some great > publicity! You know you have a hot property when somebody leaks it! > > Those of you who want the information, buy a copy of Aromatherapy > Today--June issue. Perhaps Lowana will let us all know how we can get a > copy of the nursing journal (due out late in the year) if our collaborative > piece passes peer review. Aromatherapy journals need our support and provide > a place to share information in its entirety, rather than detached > " snippets " zapped around the globe and ripe for misinterpretation. > > I will sign off tomorrow morning, but can respond tonight to anything that I > think warrants response. Again, thanks for a lively discussion. > > Barbara ----------- Lowana Veal wrote: > > Hi folks, > This is the study that is being published in Aromatherapy Today next > month, and, in a more scientific form and with more background > information, is currently being considered for publication in > Complementary Therapies in Nursing and Midwifery where it is > currently being peer-reviewed by 2 people. > Although many women were using other therapies as well as Vitex EO, > they attributed the changes after using the EO to the EO rather than > the other therapies which could be seen as a base-line constant. > Lowana > > > > > Judy Knoll wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > This is the article that was printed in our local Helath Food Co-op > > > > Newsletter. > > > > > > > > Menepause Releif Developed From Age-old herb by Amanda Womble, > > > > Aromatherapist > > > > > > > > Vitex agnus castus has been the herb of choice for healing female > > > > complaints and hormone imblalnces since time immemorial. Drawings of > > > > Vitex appeared in Dioscurides " Materia Medica date 55 AD, and > > > > Hippocrates recommended the herb in 400 AD for inlammations and > > > > injuries. According to Pliny the Elder (23-79AD), Vitex was highly > > > > revered as one of the most important medecines of that time. > > > > Today, Vitex is held in the same regard. The indications for the use > > > > of Vitex have changed very little since ancient times. Menstrual > > > > anomolies and female complaints such as PMS, depression, water > > > > retention, mentrual headaches, and low milk production, among other > > > > ailments, have been treated successfully with the use of Vitex. > > > > In 1994, the first distillation of Vitex rendered an essential oil and > > > > experts set to work researching its many diverse compounds. Analysis > > > > found that the essential oil contained the same compounds as the herb > > > > and because of long, slow distillation process, many more unknown > > > > compounds were present in the oil that were not present in the extract > > > > (tincture)f orm. Danish Physiologist Janina Sorensen reported on her > > > > researvh at 4th Scientific Wholistic Aromatherapy Conference last > > > > November. > > > > Sorensen reported that Vitex in general balances the female sex > > > > hormones and counteracts estrogen overporuduction. Estrogen domination > > > > has been related to several serious female disease including > > > > osteoporosis as well as breast and endometrial cancer. > > > > Another Speaker at the oncferencenoted Aromatherapist Barbara Chopin > > > > Lucks, reported on a sutdy that she performed using the sessential oil > > > > of Vitex with 33 menepausal women. Her preliminary findings were > > > > remarkable. The women in the study were experiencing the typical > > > > menopausal complaints with varying degrees of severity. these > > > > synmptoms inluded but were not limited to: > > > > > > > > .mood swings, depression, personality changes > > > > > > .memory loss, disorientation, difficulty concentrating > > > .hot flashes, night sweats > > > .vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse > > > insomnia > > > .heavy or prolonged bleeding > > > .changes in libido > > > > > > all of the women who participated in the study had some previous > > > experience with using essential oils so the mode of application was let > > > to their discretion. Some women chose only to inhale the oil straight > > > from the bottle while others chose to take one drop internally. Other > > > chose to apply it using a carrier oil, cream or lotion and still others > > > added it to their bath water. Dosages in the study were not specific and > > > the Vitex essential oil was used according to individual preference. I > > > would not her, however, that the essential oil of Vitex is very potent > > > and that very little is needed. (i.e. maximum 5 drops per ounce of > > > carrier oil, cream or lotion, maximum 3 drops in bath.) > > > > > > The women in the study were located thought the United States and > > > Canada. Some of the women were on Hormone replacement therapy and some > > > were taking herbal meneposal formulas. The study lasted for three > > > months, during which time the women keep a journal of their experiences > > > and reported them regularly. At the end of the three months their data > > > was compiled and some of the results follow. > > > > > > > (to be continued) > > > > > > Sorry, folks I am retyping and need a break. Will continue later. ---------- Judy Knoll wrote: > > All of the women attributed moderate to major improvement in their > menopausal symptoms as a direct result of using the essential oil of > Vitex. They felt that the essential oil relieved their symptoms to such > a degree that they would continue using the oil even after the study was > complete. The list of symptoms improved by the following percentages: > > .mood swings, depression, personality changes 80% > .memory loss, disorientation, difficulty concentrating 27% > hot flashes, night sweats 64% > > vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse 83% > .insomnia > 56% > heavy or prolonged bleeding 50% > .changes in libido > 43% > > The women who were on HRT experienced so much relief that they were able > to lowered their prescription doses up to 50%. Some women resumed having > regular periods after not menstruating or 3-10 months. One women even > gave the Vitex essential oil to her eleven-year old daughter who " was > experiencing real hormonal change like hormone related headaches. It > cleared her headaches completely. " Another woman reported that using > their gave her " balance, a peacefulness and relaxation that was much > need and appreciated. " And another who used the oil reported " more > balance in mood swings and depression, better sleep, and no more night > sweats. " One woman reported keeping it on her night stand for immediate > relief of hot flashes and night sweats just by inhaltionof the oil from > the bottle. > It is evident, however anecdotal, that essential oil of Vitex exhibits > the sam balancing action that the research attributes to the did > berries. However, the oil may be both broader and more refined in its > therapeutic action. the essential oil may also be used for PMS another > menstrual complaints for which one would Vitex tincture or capsules. > > (Our local health food co-op sells the oil for $22.00 for 5 ml. do you > know where we can get it wholesale?) > > Judy Knoll ---------- Barbara Lucks wrote: > > I seee the Vitex Anthology as an ongoing project, though I am no longer > doing the work in such a formalway. I get e-mails from time to time from > some of the original participants, as well as ladies who were using vitex on > their own or have just started using it. If anyone is interested in a copy > of the standard information reporting form that we used for the Anthology, > please post me privately and I will send it to you. It has to be snail > mailed. > > The answer is that yes, we need all the data we can get, though I feel that > my start needs to be refined and expanded on by someone who is better at > research than I, and who can dedicate some very focused time (and a bit of > money) to the project. Janina Sorensen, the physiologist who distlled the > berry oil, has some great ideas for more controlled studies where women are > tracked for several years through the process, and hormonal levels are > measured to determine a standard " starting point " . I would be happy to put > you in touch with her...folks who are medical pros are more likely to have > the resources to do this research " properly " . Though I must say I was > touched when several scientists who heard my presentation at PIA took the > time to tell me that they felt The Vitex Anthology was a very sound piece of > research. > > To quickly answer your questions: > > Most of the participants were self-disagnosed as being in the perimenopausal > to postmenopausal period. Some had lab work to support hormonal changes, > but, let me tell you, a woman KNOWS when her hormones are changing. The > ladies were born in the years between 1944-1958. > > We assessed the impact of nine different syptom groups both before using > vitex and after three months of use. These symptom groups are detailed on > the information reporting form the ladies filled out. > > The country of origin of the oil and ESPECIALLY the plant part distilled is > essential informatiion in evaluating the results. > > The ladies used the oil in any way they chose, and they reported methods of > use on the info form. For those wishing to start using e.o. vitex, I > personally recommend starting with simple inhalation. It can take weeks to > feel an effect, though some effects are almost instant. Both herb and oil > act directly on the pituitary to balance progesterone. > > Use with hormone replacement therapy is dodgy and requires a lot of fine > tuning. I personally use a combo of soy-derived estrogen and e.o. vitex for > the progesterone balance. (Yes, I have tried life without the estrogen, and > we really don't want to go there,at least not with me). I need to see my doc > about twice a year for monitoring. It appears that the use of vitex really > skews the progesterone part of the balance, and a woman needs to find an > open-minded doc to work with her. > > Also, e.o. vitex, as well as the herb, can REDUCE OR ELIMINATE THE > EFFECTIVENESS OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS! Talk about a place you don't want to > go in your forties or fifties! > > The " story " form of The Vitex Anthology will be published in Aromatherapy > Today, June 2001 issue. A different version, stripped down to just the data > (and with comparative GC's) is currently undergoing peer review for a > British nursing journal. This piece includes an introduction to the herb, > oil and current research written by Janina Sorensen, and the entire > collaborative effort was edited (bles her heart) by Lowana Veal, a > biologist. We should hear in a few weeks if we have passed peer review. > Wish us luck! > > So that's where we're at....and the work goes on. > > Barbara > > > Paula Warren [paulawarren1] > Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:10 AM > atpro > RE: [atpro] Finally!! > > Thank you Barbara, > Your right about working relationships. I will keep > you and this list informed. I would like my work > reviewed before I start any study. > Also I wanted to ask you if you still need data...I > meet alot of women that are interested in being a part > of your Vitex research. I need to know what target > group that you are focusing on...age(pre or > menopausal) range...particular symptoms...what part of > the plant oil...application of the Vitex etc. Can the > women already be on hormone replacement therapy...will > they need to go off their therapy? How long will they > be monitored for? > Let me know...:)Paula ----------------------------- > http://www.kypros.org/Projects/Laona/chaste_tree.html > > http://www.nutrimart.com/Bulk/Description/agnus.htm > > http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/scripts/asp/IAPT/ncugentry.asp?name=Vitex > > http://www.friedli.com/herbs/chasteberry.html > > http://www.thorne.com/townsend/oct/herbal.html > > http://breastcancer.about.com/health/breastcancer/cs/chasteberry/index.htm > > http://depression.about.com/health/depression/library/weekly/aa090500b.htm?iam=d\ pile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus > > http://herbsforhealth.about.com/health/herbsforhealth/library/weekly/aa050198.ht\ m?iam=dpile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus > > http://www.health-pages.com/ct/ > > http://www.streetside.com/plants/floridata/ref/v/vitex_a.htm --------------- > > I am a chiropractor and a pharmacist with a background in research. I > have > > been using oils for several years. I am in the process of putting > together > > a project with an ob-gyn to do a study on vitex for PMS and menopause. I > > have several patients using the vitex including my mother who after 25 > years > > of hormone replacement therapy had a hysterectomy to remove endometrial > > cancer. She has been using Vitex before the sugery and and post-op with > no > > problems. My interest began when my wife's sister was diagnosed with > breast > > cancer and the tumor grew from nothing to a golf ball in less than a month > > because the MD didn't take her off the hormones. With the history of > heart > > disease and osteoporosis in my wife's family, we considered HRT a viable > > option until her sister was diagnosed. Both my wife and two of her > sisters > > (one that had the mastectomy) use the Vitex to 'regulate' menopause > > symptoms. I have my own theory about xeno-estrogens and their effect on > the > > human condition, but that is another soap box to include treating > menopause > > as a disease. My experience over the past 9 months shows no > complications, > > including one post endometrial CA and Breast CA (Ductile). I of course > will > > continue monitoring but the relief my patients have obtained has made it > > worth it. I am very curious on the effect of vitex on osteoporosis. Some > > women have stated their osteoarthrits symptoms have decreased as well. > > > > Here is an e-mail I just received tonight: > > > > " On a positive note- I just talked to Cookie (she may call you) She has > > been > > using the Vitex and wants more - not only -no hot flashes - as of the > second > > day - no vaginal dryness, she was actually horny and had great sex! I > told > > her to tell you that - hee hee " > > > > This oil has helped many women and out of my group of 30+ patients only > one > > had no effect. I have one psychotherapist taking it by mouth but most > just > > inhale it (one drop on a tissue) or put it (one drop) on their feet, wrist > > and temples. Usually inhalation stops a hot flash dead in it's tracks. > > Hope this helps! > > > > Dr. XXXXXXXXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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