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> Hello people,

> I've been very busy over the last few days so have not had a chance

> to respond, but today (by accident) I've got more time so I've

> actually got time to respond rather than think about it or start but

> not finish posts.

>

> >I have absolutely no problem with vitex oil being investigated for

> >what it can do. What I have a very big problem with is this

> >investigation being done by amateurs. I do not mean that in a nasty

> >way, fact is to do this job properly and safely requires structured

> >toxicological and efficacy trials. There is no short cut to that if

> >one is looking at possible pharmacological actions rather than

> >subjective psychological effects. Sure, we don't have that research

> >on many commonly used oils, but most of those have been in constant

> >use for hundreds of years without significant toxicological

> >problems. What worries me enormously with oral use of vitex oil is

> >possible long-term harm caused by unnatural over-stimulation of the

> >hormone producing organs.

>

> I agree that the article that Judy posted should not have been

> published in the health food shop newsletter in the first place as it

> only tells half the story, but in the papers that are being/may be

> published, oral use is not recommended.

> As to the research being done by amateurs: with any luck, other

> people will read the paper(s) who DO have the money and knowledge and

> time to conduct more clinical trials, and will be spurred on to do so

> by this research. I thought it should be written up so the research

> would not be lost, and later on Aromatherapy Today decided to publish

> it because the editor, John Kerr, liked the way the study was

> conducted (questionnaire basis).

>

> >In reply to your question on how we can progress this issue. The

> >only way forward is proper trials and that can only be done by a

> >professional organisation or company; there are non in the

> >aromatherapy trade capable of funding and organising that. In my

> >opinion the only way this can progress in a safe professional manner

> >is if a large company already in the supplement field decided to

> >conduct trials. However since several already supply the herb in

> >tablets and capsules as well as having already sponsored trials, I

> >have my doubts they will be interested. For example Gerrard House

> >conducted trials on vitex herb years ago and those results were

> >published, as have been several subsequent trials. The Herb

> >Research Founder in Boulder can provide (for a small sum) a whole

> >heap of references on research on the herb.

> >http://www.herbs.org/index.html I highly recommend them for those

> >who want good references to follow up, rather than the typical

> >aromatherapy trade hash.

>

> The CTNM paper (in which Janina Sorensen has written background

> information) calls for further research on the use of the EO and herb

> in menopause (most prior research on herbal Vitex has been to do with

> menstruation difficulties). The conclusion also states, as its first

> sentence, " Clearly this data has to be viewed in light of the small

> number of participants (23), as well as the totally subjective nature

> of both use and measurement of success. " There are 22 references,

> most of which are scientific papers.

> By the way, I don't think you'll find much existing research on Vitex leaf.

> I'm probably going to be very busy again for the next few days so

> will be quiet again but following the discussion.

> Lowana

--------------

Barbara Lucks wrote:

>

> Hi folks--

>

> I'm back on for just a day to briefly address some of the issues surrounding

> the debate over the Vitex Anthology (never presented as a study--only as a

> collection of feedback from others). Fortunately, I am not a professional

> researcher and I funded the whole thing out of my own pocket. I have no

> career to defend here, and I knew the work would draw criticism from some

> scientists--others have praised it. Personally, I know how well the oil

> works for me, and I still get e-mail regularly from women who are having

> good results, so I was not looking for validation, especially from people

> who have no experience whatsoever with the oil. I can sit back and

> appreciate the varying points of view.

>

> I thank all of you for your comments. And no, the story is not over. I

> hope it is just beginning, and it does indeed appear that more research is

> in progress. The 23 stories I collected (plus some 12-15 ladies who have

> contacted me subsequent to the project) to not constitute a large sampling.

> But a pattern did emerge---a pattern did emerge.

>

> For those of you who are scrambling to get a supply of vitex and start

> aggressive personal use, or sell it to your clients with claims of likely

> success. WATCH OUT! This is a powerful and very subtle oil. It is still

> teaching me its tricks, and I have been using it for two years. It appears

> that there may be marked differences in action between leaf oil and berry

> oil, so know which oil you are using. Also, it is not uncommon to use the

> oil regularly for 2-5 weeks before feeling an effect. Other effects seem

> quite rapid. All of us who regularly work with e.o.'s know these variations,

> but vitex can often take longer than other natural substances to take

> effect. Research to date indicates that it works by direct action on the

> pituitary to normalize progesterone levels.

>

> A woman using vitex oil may experience greater emotional peace and mental

> clarity, improved sleep, stablilized weight, reduction or elimination of hot

> flashes/night sweats, regulation of irregular menses, and improved vaginal

> tone and lubrication. OR she may experience worse hot flashes than she ever

> imagined, unwanted bleeding, and technicolor nightmares. My suggestion: if

> you want to try this oil, start with inhalation or highly diluted use in

> body creams. Listen to the messages your body is sending you. Don't go

> selling it to anyone without making sure they know it is an experimental

> oil, no results are guaranteed, and medical monitoring is a MUST with any

> internal use or use of the oil with any form of hormonal supplementation.

> Don't mix it with birth control pills--you could negate the b.c. pill.

>

> Until two days ago, I was supplying a full copy of my work to anyone who

> posted me privately with a personal need for the information. Silly me. Due

> to abuse of my work and disrespect for the copyright, I am no longer

> supplying this information to anyone. I am looking long and hard at how I

> share--even if I share--the massive amount of information that we did NOT

> have room for in the paper.

>

> Such a format will have to serve the public, will have to honor the oil and

> its power, and will have to serve me. I do know that the internet is NOT an

> honorable place for this work. However, I do want to thank thank the

> anonymous slimebag who breeched the copyright agreement for some great

> publicity! You know you have a hot property when somebody leaks it!

>

> Those of you who want the information, buy a copy of Aromatherapy

> Today--June issue. Perhaps Lowana will let us all know how we can get a

> copy of the nursing journal (due out late in the year) if our collaborative

> piece passes peer review. Aromatherapy journals need our support and provide

> a place to share information in its entirety, rather than detached

> " snippets " zapped around the globe and ripe for misinterpretation.

>

> I will sign off tomorrow morning, but can respond tonight to anything that I

> think warrants response. Again, thanks for a lively discussion.

>

> Barbara

-----------

 

Lowana Veal wrote:

>

> Hi folks,

> This is the study that is being published in Aromatherapy Today next

> month, and, in a more scientific form and with more background

> information, is currently being considered for publication in

> Complementary Therapies in Nursing and Midwifery where it is

> currently being peer-reviewed by 2 people.

> Although many women were using other therapies as well as Vitex EO,

> they attributed the changes after using the EO to the EO rather than

> the other therapies which could be seen as a base-line constant.

> Lowana

> >

> > > Judy Knoll wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi,

> > > >

> > > > This is the article that was printed in our local Helath Food Co-op

> > > > Newsletter.

> > > >

> > > > Menepause Releif Developed From Age-old herb by Amanda Womble,

> > > > Aromatherapist

> > > >

> > > > Vitex agnus castus has been the herb of choice for healing female

> > > > complaints and hormone imblalnces since time immemorial. Drawings of

> > > > Vitex appeared in Dioscurides " Materia Medica date 55 AD, and

> > > > Hippocrates recommended the herb in 400 AD for inlammations and

> > > > injuries. According to Pliny the Elder (23-79AD), Vitex was highly

> > > > revered as one of the most important medecines of that time.

> > > > Today, Vitex is held in the same regard. The indications for the use

> > > > of Vitex have changed very little since ancient times. Menstrual

> > > > anomolies and female complaints such as PMS, depression, water

> > > > retention, mentrual headaches, and low milk production, among other

> > > > ailments, have been treated successfully with the use of Vitex.

> > > > In 1994, the first distillation of Vitex rendered an essential oil and

> > > > experts set to work researching its many diverse compounds. Analysis

> > > > found that the essential oil contained the same compounds as the herb

> > > > and because of long, slow distillation process, many more unknown

> > > > compounds were present in the oil that were not present in the extract

> > > > (tincture)f orm. Danish Physiologist Janina Sorensen reported on her

> > > > researvh at 4th Scientific Wholistic Aromatherapy Conference last

> > > > November.

> > > > Sorensen reported that Vitex in general balances the female sex

> > > > hormones and counteracts estrogen overporuduction. Estrogen domination

> > > > has been related to several serious female disease including

> > > > osteoporosis as well as breast and endometrial cancer.

> > > > Another Speaker at the oncferencenoted Aromatherapist Barbara Chopin

> > > > Lucks, reported on a sutdy that she performed using the sessential oil

> > > > of Vitex with 33 menepausal women. Her preliminary findings were

> > > > remarkable. The women in the study were experiencing the typical

> > > > menopausal complaints with varying degrees of severity. these

> > > > synmptoms inluded but were not limited to:

> > > >

> > > > .mood swings, depression, personality changes

> > >

> > > .memory loss, disorientation, difficulty concentrating

> > > .hot flashes, night sweats

> > > .vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse

> > > insomnia

> > > .heavy or prolonged bleeding

> > > .changes in libido

> > >

> > > all of the women who participated in the study had some previous

> > > experience with using essential oils so the mode of application was let

> > > to their discretion. Some women chose only to inhale the oil straight

> > > from the bottle while others chose to take one drop internally. Other

> > > chose to apply it using a carrier oil, cream or lotion and still others

> > > added it to their bath water. Dosages in the study were not specific and

> > > the Vitex essential oil was used according to individual preference. I

> > > would not her, however, that the essential oil of Vitex is very potent

> > > and that very little is needed. (i.e. maximum 5 drops per ounce of

> > > carrier oil, cream or lotion, maximum 3 drops in bath.)

> > >

> > > The women in the study were located thought the United States and

> > > Canada. Some of the women were on Hormone replacement therapy and some

> > > were taking herbal meneposal formulas. The study lasted for three

> > > months, during which time the women keep a journal of their experiences

> > > and reported them regularly. At the end of the three months their data

> > > was compiled and some of the results follow.

> > >

> > > > (to be continued)

> > >

> > > Sorry, folks I am retyping and need a break. Will continue later.

----------

Judy Knoll wrote:

>

> All of the women attributed moderate to major improvement in their

> menopausal symptoms as a direct result of using the essential oil of

> Vitex. They felt that the essential oil relieved their symptoms to such

> a degree that they would continue using the oil even after the study was

> complete. The list of symptoms improved by the following percentages:

>

> .mood swings, depression, personality changes 80%

> .memory loss, disorientation, difficulty concentrating 27%

> hot flashes, night sweats 64%

>

> vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse 83%

> .insomnia

> 56%

> heavy or prolonged bleeding 50%

> .changes in libido

> 43%

>

> The women who were on HRT experienced so much relief that they were able

> to lowered their prescription doses up to 50%. Some women resumed having

> regular periods after not menstruating or 3-10 months. One women even

> gave the Vitex essential oil to her eleven-year old daughter who " was

> experiencing real hormonal change like hormone related headaches. It

> cleared her headaches completely. " Another woman reported that using

> their gave her " balance, a peacefulness and relaxation that was much

> need and appreciated. " And another who used the oil reported " more

> balance in mood swings and depression, better sleep, and no more night

> sweats. " One woman reported keeping it on her night stand for immediate

> relief of hot flashes and night sweats just by inhaltionof the oil from

> the bottle.

> It is evident, however anecdotal, that essential oil of Vitex exhibits

> the sam balancing action that the research attributes to the did

> berries. However, the oil may be both broader and more refined in its

> therapeutic action. the essential oil may also be used for PMS another

> menstrual complaints for which one would Vitex tincture or capsules.

>

> (Our local health food co-op sells the oil for $22.00 for 5 ml. do you

> know where we can get it wholesale?)

>

> Judy Knoll

----------

Barbara Lucks wrote:

>

> I seee the Vitex Anthology as an ongoing project, though I am no longer

> doing the work in such a formalway. I get e-mails from time to time from

> some of the original participants, as well as ladies who were using vitex on

> their own or have just started using it. If anyone is interested in a copy

> of the standard information reporting form that we used for the Anthology,

> please post me privately and I will send it to you. It has to be snail

> mailed.

>

> The answer is that yes, we need all the data we can get, though I feel that

> my start needs to be refined and expanded on by someone who is better at

> research than I, and who can dedicate some very focused time (and a bit of

> money) to the project. Janina Sorensen, the physiologist who distlled the

> berry oil, has some great ideas for more controlled studies where women are

> tracked for several years through the process, and hormonal levels are

> measured to determine a standard " starting point " . I would be happy to put

> you in touch with her...folks who are medical pros are more likely to have

> the resources to do this research " properly " . Though I must say I was

> touched when several scientists who heard my presentation at PIA took the

> time to tell me that they felt The Vitex Anthology was a very sound piece of

> research.

>

> To quickly answer your questions:

>

> Most of the participants were self-disagnosed as being in the perimenopausal

> to postmenopausal period. Some had lab work to support hormonal changes,

> but, let me tell you, a woman KNOWS when her hormones are changing. The

> ladies were born in the years between 1944-1958.

>

> We assessed the impact of nine different syptom groups both before using

> vitex and after three months of use. These symptom groups are detailed on

> the information reporting form the ladies filled out.

>

> The country of origin of the oil and ESPECIALLY the plant part distilled is

> essential informatiion in evaluating the results.

>

> The ladies used the oil in any way they chose, and they reported methods of

> use on the info form. For those wishing to start using e.o. vitex, I

> personally recommend starting with simple inhalation. It can take weeks to

> feel an effect, though some effects are almost instant. Both herb and oil

> act directly on the pituitary to balance progesterone.

>

> Use with hormone replacement therapy is dodgy and requires a lot of fine

> tuning. I personally use a combo of soy-derived estrogen and e.o. vitex for

> the progesterone balance. (Yes, I have tried life without the estrogen, and

> we really don't want to go there,at least not with me). I need to see my doc

> about twice a year for monitoring. It appears that the use of vitex really

> skews the progesterone part of the balance, and a woman needs to find an

> open-minded doc to work with her.

>

> Also, e.o. vitex, as well as the herb, can REDUCE OR ELIMINATE THE

> EFFECTIVENESS OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS! Talk about a place you don't want to

> go in your forties or fifties!

>

> The " story " form of The Vitex Anthology will be published in Aromatherapy

> Today, June 2001 issue. A different version, stripped down to just the data

> (and with comparative GC's) is currently undergoing peer review for a

> British nursing journal. This piece includes an introduction to the herb,

> oil and current research written by Janina Sorensen, and the entire

> collaborative effort was edited (bles her heart) by Lowana Veal, a

> biologist. We should hear in a few weeks if we have passed peer review.

> Wish us luck!

>

> So that's where we're at....and the work goes on.

>

> Barbara

>

>

> Paula Warren [paulawarren1]

> Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:10 AM

> atpro

> RE: [atpro] Finally!!

>

> Thank you Barbara,

> Your right about working relationships. I will keep

> you and this list informed. I would like my work

> reviewed before I start any study.

> Also I wanted to ask you if you still need data...I

> meet alot of women that are interested in being a part

> of your Vitex research. I need to know what target

> group that you are focusing on...age(pre or

> menopausal) range...particular symptoms...what part of

> the plant oil...application of the Vitex etc. Can the

> women already be on hormone replacement therapy...will

> they need to go off their therapy? How long will they

> be monitored for?

> Let me know...:)Paula

-----------------------------

> http://www.kypros.org/Projects/Laona/chaste_tree.html

>

> http://www.nutrimart.com/Bulk/Description/agnus.htm

>

> http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/scripts/asp/IAPT/ncugentry.asp?name=Vitex

>

> http://www.friedli.com/herbs/chasteberry.html

>

> http://www.thorne.com/townsend/oct/herbal.html

>

> http://breastcancer.about.com/health/breastcancer/cs/chasteberry/index.htm

>

>

 

 

 

http://depression.about.com/health/depression/library/weekly/aa090500b.htm?iam=d\

pile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus

>

>

 

 

 

http://herbsforhealth.about.com/health/herbsforhealth/library/weekly/aa050198.ht\

m?iam=dpile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus

>

> http://www.health-pages.com/ct/

>

> http://www.streetside.com/plants/floridata/ref/v/vitex_a.htm

---------------

> > I am a chiropractor and a pharmacist with a background in research. I

> have

> > been using oils for several years. I am in the process of putting

> together

> > a project with an ob-gyn to do a study on vitex for PMS and menopause. I

> > have several patients using the vitex including my mother who after 25

> years

> > of hormone replacement therapy had a hysterectomy to remove endometrial

> > cancer. She has been using Vitex before the sugery and and post-op with

> no

> > problems. My interest began when my wife's sister was diagnosed with

> breast

> > cancer and the tumor grew from nothing to a golf ball in less than a month

> > because the MD didn't take her off the hormones. With the history of

> heart

> > disease and osteoporosis in my wife's family, we considered HRT a viable

> > option until her sister was diagnosed. Both my wife and two of her

> sisters

> > (one that had the mastectomy) use the Vitex to 'regulate' menopause

> > symptoms. I have my own theory about xeno-estrogens and their effect on

> the

> > human condition, but that is another soap box to include treating

> menopause

> > as a disease. My experience over the past 9 months shows no

> complications,

> > including one post endometrial CA and Breast CA (Ductile). I of course

> will

> > continue monitoring but the relief my patients have obtained has made it

> > worth it. I am very curious on the effect of vitex on osteoporosis. Some

> > women have stated their osteoarthrits symptoms have decreased as well.

> >

> > Here is an e-mail I just received tonight:

> >

> > " On a positive note- I just talked to Cookie (she may call you) She has

> > been

> > using the Vitex and wants more - not only -no hot flashes - as of the

> second

> > day - no vaginal dryness, she was actually horny and had great sex! I

> told

> > her to tell you that - hee hee "

> >

> > This oil has helped many women and out of my group of 30+ patients only

> one

> > had no effect. I have one psychotherapist taking it by mouth but most

> just

> > inhale it (one drop on a tissue) or put it (one drop) on their feet, wrist

> > and temples. Usually inhalation stops a hot flash dead in it's tracks.

> > Hope this helps!

> >

> > Dr. XXXXXXXXX

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