Guest guest Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 At 01:16 AM 1/15/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hey Anya, > >Not really .. I have to wait for someone to come out and play afore I >can be on the other team - huh? ;-p Better go get Martin to help >on this one cause the opposition is far more cautious about potential >problems than are those who have ventured forward with good results. > >> The original report on vitex oil raises many red flags. > >The original report primarily concerned itself with ingestion .. which >I have never believed was necessary .. even Martin in his extreme >caution has (for the record .. on this list) stated that there is no >way inhalation of an essential oil is harmful. And that is the way >the ladies in my office used it for years .. with good results. I'm only going to reply to this post, Butch, since I see you've post about a dozen and that's quite a bit -- this reply should suffice. The original report did not concern itself with ingestion. Women were instructed to inhale, ingest, or apply dermally. And I had a reaction from just inhaling for a minute a day that screwed my menses up. Then I stopped using it, and they immediately became normal again. I'm not menopausal, but some of the menopausal participants started having their period again after years of being period-free. Definitely raised red flags, especially with the lack of followup. > >> The use of the leaf is just plain 'duh', since the berries are the >> source of the active ingredients. > >In spite of the adjectives .. I disagree .. and I have the GC results >from both .. and will post them here. The Fruit (there are NO berries) >oil is much stronger. Berries are the common name for the tiny fruits, have been for centuries. Check any herbal website. No need to split hairs there. > >> Once again, the AT industry is trying to distill everything under >> the sun, with no idea how or why of *if* it should be used. > >Yes Martin Junior. ;-p The distillation of Vitex has been ongoing for >many years in Turkey and Greece .. primarily in Turkey .. and nobody in >the damn AT industry knew Jack Schidt about it until Janina Sorenson >first came up with a batch from Crete .. then it was Butch Owen who took >over and is still the main supplier. I could reword that to say the AT industry is taking anything that is distilled under the sun, even though it was meant for the perfume industry, and trying to find medical uses for it. Scary stuff. Oh, and I know several others who sell the oils, directly from Janina. I won't post their names here, so they aren't drawn into this discussion, since they aren't on the list (to my knowledge.) > >> Wackier than the perfume industry, IMO, > >I doubt it .. you perfumers put synthetic crap on your skin. No, we don't. Don't forget, I have a Natural Perfumery group on . Natural being the definitive word. > >> since untrained folks are trying to 'treat' people over the internet > >Who is the untrained person trying to treat people over the internet? Well, I remember Mynou accidently posting to idma a few years ago. She was selling her 'services' to someone who had asked about a medical problem. Mynou offered to diagnose and suggest oils over the phone for only $75/hr. That is only one example. There are many, many more in the AT world. And herbalism world, don't mean to say unethical practices are limited to AT practitioners or sellers. >I think generalizations are a great way to protest without saying a damn >thing .. I see it often from certain corners. Well, I got specific, since you asked, Butch. See paragraph above. And generalizations are acceptable, or every post would be screamingly long. >> questioned in depth, or have the training to diagnose. > >I would not and have never questioned or diagnosed anyone .. I am NOT a >medical doctor or even a jack leg aromatherapy practitioner. Nobody said you were. >> As far as the ladies in your office -- placebo effect, it's a wonderful >> thing, no? > >Yes Dr. Anya .. but .. did you question and examine and diagnose and all >that good crap? Generalizations again .. useless bovine excrement! I have no idea what you meant by the above sentence. If it was about the placebo effect, it was just a joke, obviously, -- lighten up. Unless you want to 'generalize' that anything you don't agree with is cow crap,which I find offensive. >> Did they ever try just drinking a tea of the berries, like their >> ancestors did for generations before them? Nice stuff the tea, but >> again, not for all women at all times -- if you drink it from menses to >> ovulation, it will increase blood flow. It should be drunk from >> ovulation to menses and then stopped. Corpus luteum, and all that, >> y'know. >> That pesky ol' FSH/follicles/estrogen cycle that ATs know little or >> nothing about. >> Gotta address the corpus luteum and the luteinizing hormone in the >> second part of the cycle, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm boring myself.. > >That makes two people then .. at least. ;-p Didn't you understand the statement I made about the cycles? Glad I haven't bored about six ladies on this group who have emailed me privately since I posted, asking for more info. I'm directing them to a list populated by experienced herbalists, naturopaths, and MDs that practice alternative medicine. Let them be bored there with helpful information :-) >> off to have a drink of plain 'ol sweet, filtered water. > >Have fun .. but since you are so ready to condemn suggestions on what >people should NOT try for themselves .. don't you have any wise guidance >on what they SHOULD try for themselves? Butch I sure did. My previous post, pre-vitex, queried the OP on what were the exact ages/stages of the women she was asking about. I told her not to buy OTC menopausal blends, they are too scattershot. She was mixng apples and oranges, asking about PMS and menopause in the same post, so I was trying to straighten out the query. And, since I don't practice medicine, or give out recommendations willy-nilly, it's obvious I would rather err on the side of caution, and point the person in the right direction to get the proper information. And, I don't sell anything, so I think that makes my 30 years of herbal education and 25 years of AT study a bit credible. Not trying to make a cent off of anyone, just trying to get them to the right person or herb or oil to help them. I'm particularly helpful with decongestion blends, pain-relief recommendations, and the occasional beauty treatment. I always have followed the advice of my ethnobotany professor -- be skeptical, keep your eyes and ears open, and beware of ....... (well, I better not say it here, I'll let folks fill in the blanks :-) http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Hey Anya, > >Martin and Anya will likely come out and say .. but .. its the plant > >that we know about .. not the oil. So I just beat them to it be > >saying what I said above. ;-p > > Nope, Butch, I beat you on this one -- by about 15 minutes, LOL. Not really .. I have to wait for someone to come out and play afore I can be on the other team - huh? ;-p Better go get Martin to help on this one cause the opposition is far more cautious about potential problems than are those who have ventured forward with good results. > The original report on vitex oil raises many red flags. The original report primarily concerned itself with ingestion .. which I have never believed was necessary .. even Martin in his extreme caution has (for the record .. on this list) stated that there is no way inhalation of an essential oil is harmful. And that is the way the ladies in my office used it for years .. with good results. > The use of the leaf is just plain 'duh', since the berries are the > source of the active ingredients. In spite of the adjectives .. I disagree .. and I have the GC results from both .. and will post them here. The Fruit (there are NO berries) oil is much stronger. > Once again, the AT industry is trying to distill everything under > the sun, with no idea how or why of *if* it should be used. Yes Martin Junior. ;-p The distillation of Vitex has been ongoing for many years in Turkey and Greece .. primarily in Turkey .. and nobody in the damn AT industry knew Jack Schidt about it until Janina Sorenson first came up with a batch from Crete .. then it was Butch Owen who took over and is still the main supplier. > Wackier than the perfume industry, IMO, I doubt it .. you perfumers put synthetic crap on your skin. > since untrained folks are trying to 'treat' people over the internet Who is the untrained person trying to treat people over the internet? I think generalizations are a great way to protest without saying a damn thing .. I see it often from certain corners. > questioned in depth, or have the training to diagnose. I would not and have never questioned or diagnosed anyone .. I am NOT a medical doctor or even a jack leg aromatherapy practitioner. > As far as the ladies in your office -- placebo effect, it's a wonderful > thing, no? Yes Dr. Anya .. but .. did you question and examine and diagnose and all that good crap? Generalizations again .. useless bovine excrement! > Did they ever try just drinking a tea of the berries, like their > ancestors did for generations before them? Nice stuff the tea, but > again, not for all women at all times -- if you drink it from menses to > ovulation, it will increase blood flow. It should be drunk from > ovulation to menses and then stopped. Corpus luteum, and all that, > y'know. No .. I do not know. But for generations people here have used Sage and Pennyroyal teas and many of the so-called hypothetical experts will condemn them for that. > That pesky ol' FSH/follicles/estrogen cycle that ATs know little or > nothing about. > Gotta address the corpus luteum and the luteinizing hormone in the > second part of the cycle, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm boring myself.. That makes two people then .. at least. ;-p > off to have a drink of plain 'ol sweet, filtered water. Have fun .. but since you are so ready to condemn suggestions on what people should NOT try for themselves .. don't you have any wise guidance on what they SHOULD try for themselves? Butch > Anya > http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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