Neroli Hydrosol ** And A Changing Industry

[Guest guest]

Yo Chris,

 

> Hey Butcher,

> I've got a few more questions for ya now

>

> Does the Sweet Orange Flowers stuff smell similar to the Bitter Orange

> Flower stuff then? Anywhere the Sweet Orange Blossom stuff is available?

 

If you mean the Hydrosol .. I smelled Sweet Orange Hydrosol last summer

and though I had not smelled the real Neroli Hydrosol since my last trip

to Tunisia .. olfactory memory took over and I immediately detected that

what was sprayed on me was Sweet Orange. We mature folks have a far

better olfactory memory than young folks do. ;-p

 

> I now remember you mentioning something to Ylva about Sweet Orange

> Blossom some time back ... But heck if the Sweet Orange Blossom is

> cheaper, and smells very similar, it should be more widely available,

> right?

 

Right now .. I think if I were buying the Hydrosol .. I'd be satisfied

with Sweet Orange Flower .. but I would not be satisfied with paying a

Neroli price for Sweet Orange Flower .. which was the point of my post.

And I'm not sure how to tell you how to know the difference cause it

seems that some sellers are redefining the meaning of this and that.

 

Was a time when Orange Blossom meant Neroli .. that changed slowly.

 

The Sweet Orange Flower Hydrosol is nice .. but they are different!

Comparing Neroli and Sweet Orange is like comparing round steak and

prime T-bone .. if you've not had prime T-bone then you can be satisfied

with round steak, or if you're hungry, round is fine too .. but put them

side by side and watch what happens.

 

Sweet Orange is top heavy in d-Limonene .. upper 80% or more .. followed

by Decanal, Citronellol and lots of others at half percent or lower.

 

Neroli is top heavy in Linalool and Linalool acetate .. followed by

d-Limonene, Geraniol, Terpineol-a, Pinene, Nerolidol, and others.

 

> Also, why is the Neroli hydrosol so hard to get the real stuff is the

> Neroli oil itself is produced (wouldn't the hydrosol come with, like it

> does with Rose)? I guess I'm figuring that wouldn't the producer of the

> quality Neroli Oil have the hydrosol too?

 

Yes it does .. should come with it. The short of it is that a Tunisian

producer of QUALITY Neroli WILL have Neroli Hydrosol .. but there is not

much Neroli EO produced in the second place .. not as much as the Rose

Otto production .. and not as much as the market demands.

 

But a producer of less than quality Neroli will not have Hydrosol ..

what I am referring to here is one that does a number of cohobations.

When I visited the French in Isparta this year .. y'all recall I told

the tale on the list back in July .. they proudly showed me a factory

where they were cohobating the Rose Hydrosol over and over and bragged

on the fact that there would be no hydrosol left when they were finished

... all the Rose Otto would have been extracted. They were sending it to

their parent company in France .. a perfumery .. so it doesn't bother me

too much. But what if that's also happening with Neroli Hydrosol in

some of the countries other than Tunisia? It clips the supply big time.

 

There are 16 or so species of Sweet Orange and shared Botanical names

for them. Blood and Wild are the same botanically as other Sweet

Oranges. Sweet Orange of all types is Citrus sinensis .. but we have

Sweet Orange with Botanical synonyms of Citrus aurantium var. dulcis and

Citrus aurantium var. sinensis. The blossoms are distilled and called

Portuguese or Spanish Neroli. Common names suck .. especially of

dealing with Sweet Orange cause they're ALL Citrus sinensis regardless

of the synonyms tacked to them. Basically .. Botanical names for Sweet

Orange are confused but they are all Citrus sinensis and you can bet the

growers/producers know this .. when they overlook it its not due to

ignorance .. its due to the opportunity presented to misrepresent oils

... increase profit margins.

 

Feller wants to play that game he can hang his hat on the synonym Citrus

aurantium var. dulcis or Citrus aurantium var. sinensis .. but he knows

it is NOT Neroli. Neroli is Citrus aurantium var. amara .. Bitter

Orange! AND if it ain't from Tunisia .. I don't sell it!!!!

 

Then to further muddy the water we have a Japanese Sweet Orange called

Citrus aurantium var. natsudaidal.

 

Some folks are giving new names to products and the only reason I can

imagine why they do it is to create opportunity for confusion and more

profit. Orange Flower was synonymous with Neroli. Now we can find (I

am told) Orange Flower Concrete with Origin Tunisia .. I haven't found

it). The Orange Flower products I have seen are from Egypt and Morocco,

Spain, Portugal and the USA. BUT .. I can find Orange Flower Absolute

from Tunisia .. at least some sellers are calling it that .. and funny

this is cause I understood that the Concrete was shipped from Tunisia to

France for extraction and production of Absolute.

 

But all the above are called (by certain sellers) Citrus aurantium. It

is not correct .. in my opinion .. to call it Neroli. A GC will tell.

 

As for Oils .. we can find them properly calling Bitter Orange as Citrus

aurantium and all the other Oranges as Citrus sinensis .. that's

correct. And we can find the Sweet, Blood and Bitter Orange Oils as

cold pressed from rinds.

 

As for Steam Distilled Essential Oils .. we find them calling Citrus

aurantium (Bitter Orange) oils as Neroli .. from Tunisia, Egypt and

Morocco. And we find Tunisian and Moroccan Neroli at about the same

price but the Egyptian is considerably cheaper.

 

Now .. lets go to Hydrosols. Not easy to find what is called Neroli or

even called Orange Blossom from places other that Tunisia .. and what

you will find in almost most cases from Tunisia is called Orange Blossom

(Citrus aurantium) .. not Neroli. And its cheaper than dirt .. not much

higher than Rose Hydrosol, which is, in some cases, near the price of

transporting by ship. But there are ways to double profit on this .. I

have been told. If you have had both round steak and prime T-bone you

will be able to tell the difference between them and if you have had a

Sweet Orange and a Neroli Hydrosol you'll be able to tell the difference

there too. Same goes with straight from the still or cut with distilled

water Rose Hydrosol. I recommend you buy small amounts of Rose Hydrosol

this year .. use your nose, compare them, then get more if you like it.

 

The purpose of the above long and drawn out statements are to confuse

you or unconfuse you. ;-p

 

IF they make folks be better, smarter shoppers/consumers .. its good.

Shopping for a car is a lot easier than shopping for bulk natural

products .. and we'll have far less chance of getting a Lemon while

shopping for a car.

 

If you want to make a seller squirm .. that is, if s/he knows what

you're talking about and knows what they are really selling .. ask them

in their product is .. Citrus aurantium var. amara .. if they say yes

... then you might wanna ask them some more questions to see if they know

their butt from a hole in the ground. Might surprise you.

 

Most of my time is spent on market research .. it wears my butt out and

I don't like it at all .. that's one of the reasons that I know I'll not

be in this business in the future for as long as I have in the past.

 

So Chris .. the short answer to your question is that there is very

little REAL Neroli Hydrosol produced .. less than the demand .. and what

is there is not cheap .. but most of what is there is not real Neroli.

That is the reason I don't offer it .. I offer what I believe in and I'm

not gonna tell folks what they want to hear in order to make a profit.

 

> Thanks for the info!

 

Wackum fer'shur. :-P

 

> Oh, and Mercury retrograde ends today. But like with a rollercoaster

> ride .. the beginning and endings of retrogrades sometimes can be the

> roughest part of the ride! But now Jupiter is in retrograde ;-p

 

Is that something we should be dreading? Danged if'n the last month or

so hasn't been a butt kicker fer'shur.

 

> Good luck with the glue removal!

 

Thanks .. its all gone now .. used almost a whole bottle of Acetone but

it came off my skin .. still on my desk .. it won't come off there.

 

> *Smile*

> Chris (list mom)

> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

And you. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com