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II currently have a patient that has lines running from their waist line

over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28 and Kidney 11 - Kidney 13.

This are smooth lines running parallel to each other, red in colour and in a

concave fashion (they are dug into skin about 1/2 cm) and smooth, redish in

colour.

 

There is also one of these lines going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.

 

I am completely stumped....... Any ideas would be much appreciated.

 

The person has them for a number of years.......

 

Regards,

 

Gordon.

 

 

 

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Are they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be an idea to rule out

Cushings syndrome.

Lea.

Chinese Medicine , " Gordon

Mullins " <gordon.mullins wrote:

>

> II currently have a patient that has lines running from their

waist line

> over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28 and Kidney 11 -

Kidney 13.

> This are smooth lines running parallel to each other, red in

colour and in a

> concave fashion (they are dug into skin about 1/2 cm) and smooth,

redish in

> colour.

>

> There is also one of these lines going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.

>

> I am completely stumped....... Any ideas would be much appreciated.

>

> The person has them for a number of years.......

>

> Regards,

>

> Gordon.

>

>

>

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Hi Lea,

 

Yes, if you saw them you would say they were possibly strech marks, the

patient notices them more now considering they have lost about 3 stone in

the last 12 months, there is Liver qi stagnation and liver depression as a

primary disharmony.

 

Do you have much more info on Cushings syndrome?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Gordon.

 

 

On 6/1/06, Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

>

> Are they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be an idea to rule out

> Cushings syndrome.

> Lea.

> Chinese Medicine , " Gordon

> Mullins " <gordon.mullins wrote:

> >

> > II currently have a patient that has lines running from their

> waist line

> > over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28 and Kidney 11 -

> Kidney 13.

> > This are smooth lines running parallel to each other, red in

> colour and in a

> > concave fashion (they are dug into skin about 1/2 cm) and smooth,

> redish in

> > colour.

> >

> > There is also one of these lines going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.

> >

> > I am completely stumped....... Any ideas would be much appreciated.

> >

> > The person has them for a number of years.......

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Gordon.

> >

> >

> >

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I have not heard of striae running north-south along a channel. It is most

interesting when we see a phenomenon that follows a pathway and yet still find a

way to disregard it. I have seen an xray of a patient that showed an internal

line that followed the stomach pathway and yet it was not pathological. Hmmh.

Makes me wonder if there might be something physical to the pathways. Mike W.

Bowser, L Ac

 

 

: leabun1:

Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:11:22 +0000Re: Unexplained Jing Luo LinesAre

they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be an idea to rule out Cushings

syndrome.Lea.Chinese Medicine , " Gordon

Mullins " <gordon.mullins wrote:>> II currently have a patient that has

lines running from their waist line> over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St

28 and Kidney 11 - Kidney 13.> This are smooth lines running parallel to each

other, red in colour and in a> concave fashion (they are dug into skin about 1/2

cm) and smooth, redish in> colour.> > There is also one of these lines going

from Lung 2 to Lung 3.> > I am completely stumped....... Any ideas would be much

appreciated.> > The person has them for a number of years.......> > Regards,> >

Gordon.> > >

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Mike,

 

During my training a numbe rof years ago. My teacher, needled St 36 and St

41. He was able to needle to two points in such a way, I still don't know

how, he just laughed. But he needled it such that it produced a white line

for st 36 to st 41, now I couldn't see it properly at the time as the demo

was being done on me, but 12 of my fellow students gasped as the' line of

Qi' (thats how he described it) was made visible on the Jing Luo. IT HURT

LIKE HELL!!!!

 

Gordon.

 

 

On 6/1/06, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

>

> I have not heard of striae running north-south along a channel. It is

> most interesting when we see a phenomenon that follows a pathway and yet

> still find a way to disregard it. I have seen an xray of a patient that

> showed an internal line that followed the stomach pathway and yet it was not

> pathological. Hmmh. Makes me wonder if there might be something physical

> to the pathways. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

>

> :

> leabun1: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:11:22 +0000Re:

> Unexplained Jing Luo LinesAre they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be

> an idea to rule out Cushings syndrome.Lea.--- In

> Chinese Medicine , " Gordon Mullins " <

> gordon.mullins wrote:>> II currently have a patient that has lines

> running from their waist line> over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28

> and Kidney 11 - Kidney 13.> This are smooth lines running parallel to each

> other, red in colour and in a> concave fashion (they are dug into skin about

> 1/2 cm) and smooth, redish in> colour.> > There is also one of these lines

> going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.> > I am completely stumped....... Any ideas

> would be much appreciated.> > The person has them for a number of

> years.......> > Regards,> > Gordon.> > > [Non-text portions of this message

> have been removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at

> Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the

> all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your

> email delivery settings, click,

> and adjust

> accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

> outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Pleaseconsider the

environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

>

>

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Cushing's Syndrome is an adrenal disease. Typically with Cushing's, the stretch

marks are darker in color than the rest of the skin, almost appearing like

vertical

stripes. They are typically found on the abdomen, so the ones you mentioned on

the

pectoral area would be unusual. You can do a web search for Cushing's for more

informaiton.

 

,L.Ac.

 

--- Gordon Mullins <gordon.mullins wrote:

 

> Hi Lea,

>

> Yes, if you saw them you would say they were possibly strech marks, the

> patient notices them more now considering they have lost about 3 stone in

> the last 12 months, there is Liver qi stagnation and liver depression as a

> primary disharmony.

>

> Do you have much more info on Cushings syndrome?

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Gordon.

>

>

> On 6/1/06, Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

> >

> > Are they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be an idea to rule out

> > Cushings syndrome.

> > Lea.

> > Chinese Medicine , " Gordon

> > Mullins " <gordon.mullins wrote:

> > >

> > > II currently have a patient that has lines running from their

> > waist line

> > > over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28 and Kidney 11 -

> > Kidney 13.

> > > This are smooth lines running parallel to each other, red in

> > colour and in a

> > > concave fashion (they are dug into skin about 1/2 cm) and smooth,

> > redish in

> > > colour.

> > >

> > > There is also one of these lines going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.

> > >

> > > I am completely stumped....... Any ideas would be much appreciated.

> > >

> > > The person has them for a number of years.......

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Gordon.

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Gordon,

It is examples like these and many others that make me think that the work

conducted by Bonghan, Vernajoule and now Soh, on biological structure ID as a

logical way to describe this.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

--------------

> Chinese Medicine

> gordon.mullins

> Thu, 1 Jun 2006 15:39:02 +0100

> Re: Re: Unexplained Jing Luo Lines

>

> Mike,

> During my training a numbe rof years ago. My teacher, needled St 36 and St

> 41. He was able to needle to two points in such a way, I still don't know

> how, he just laughed. But he needled it such that it produced a white line

> for st 36 to st 41, now I couldn't see it properly at the time as the demo

> was being done on me, but 12 of my fellow students gasped as the' line of

> Qi' (thats how he described it) was made visible on the Jing Luo. IT HURT

> LIKE HELL!!!!

> Gordon.

> On 6/1/06, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

> >

> > I have not heard of striae running north-south along a channel. It is

> > most interesting when we see a phenomenon that follows a pathway and yet

> > still find a way to disregard it. I have seen an xray of a patient that

> > showed an internal line that followed the stomach pathway and yet it was not

> > pathological. Hmmh. Makes me wonder if there might be something physical

> > to the pathways. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> >

> > :

> > leabun1: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:11:22 +0000Re:

> > Unexplained Jing Luo LinesAre they striae? Like stretch marks? It might be

> > an idea to rule out Cushings syndrome.Lea.--- In

> > Chinese Medicine , " Gordon Mullins " <

> > gordon.mullins wrote:>> II currently have a patient that has lines

> > running from their waist line> over the Kidney Jing Luo from St 30 - St 28

> > and Kidney 11 - Kidney 13.> This are smooth lines running parallel to each

> > other, red in colour and in a> concave fashion (they are dug into skin about

> > 1/2 cm) and smooth, redish in> colour.> > There is also one of these lines

> > going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.> > I am completely stumped....... Any ideas

> > would be much appreciated.> > The person has them for a number of

> > years.......> > Regards,> > Gordon.> > > [Non-text portions of this message

> > have been removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at

> > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the

> > all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your

> > email delivery settings, click,

> > and adjust

> > accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

> > outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Pleaseconsider

the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> > necessary.

> >

> >

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Guest guest

The striae associated with cushings can be red in colour. I have

also seen red coloured striae associated with the use of

antipsychotic medication, and were a marked feature, out of

proportion with any weight gain from the medication. I do not know

if this is because the medication was having an effect on the

adrenals. At the time I asked several doctors and pharmacologists if

the specific type of antipsychotic involved could cause Cushings,

and nobody had heard of this happening. This was a while ago, I

should look into it some more and see what I turn up.

Whats the TCM differentiation of this type of thing.

 

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1 wrote:

>

> Gordon,

> It is examples like these and many others that make me think that

the work conducted by Bonghan, Vernajoule and now Soh, on biological

structure ID as a logical way to describe this.

>

>

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> --------------

> > Chinese Medicine

> > gordon.mullins

> > Thu, 1 Jun 2006 15:39:02 +0100

> > Re: Re: Unexplained Jing Luo Lines

> >

> > Mike,

> > During my training a numbe rof years ago. My teacher, needled St

36 and St

> > 41. He was able to needle to two points in such a way, I still

don't know

> > how, he just laughed. But he needled it such that it produced a

white line

> > for st 36 to st 41, now I couldn't see it properly at the time

as the demo

> > was being done on me, but 12 of my fellow students gasped as

the' line of

> > Qi' (thats how he described it) was made visible on the Jing

Luo. IT HURT

> > LIKE HELL!!!!

> > Gordon.

> > On 6/1/06, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

> > >

> > > I have not heard of striae running north-south along a

channel. It is

> > > most interesting when we see a phenomenon that follows a

pathway and yet

> > > still find a way to disregard it. I have seen an xray of a

patient that

> > > showed an internal line that followed the stomach pathway and

yet it was not

> > > pathological. Hmmh. Makes me wonder if there might be

something physical

> > > to the pathways. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> > >

> > >

> > > :

> > > leabun1: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:11:22 +0000Re:

> > > Unexplained Jing Luo LinesAre they striae? Like stretch marks?

It might be

> > > an idea to rule out Cushings syndrome.Lea.--- In

> > > Chinese Medicine , " Gordon Mullins "

<

> > > gordon.mullins@> wrote:>> II currently have a patient that has

lines

> > > running from their waist line> over the Kidney Jing Luo from

St 30 - St 28

> > > and Kidney 11 - Kidney 13.> This are smooth lines running

parallel to each

> > > other, red in colour and in a> concave fashion (they are dug

into skin about

> > > 1/2 cm) and smooth, redish in> colour.> > There is also one of

these lines

> > > going from Lung 2 to Lung 3.> > I am completely stumped.......

Any ideas

> > > would be much appreciated.> > The person has them for a number

of

> > > years.......> > Regards,> > Gordon.> > > [Non-text portions of

this message

> > > have been removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal

for TCM at

> > > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

Download the

> > > all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> > > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To

change your

> > > email delivery settings, click,

> > >

and

adjust

> > > accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any

duplication

> > > outside the group requires prior permission from the

author.Pleaseconsider the environment and only print this message if

absolutely

> > > necessary.

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

Some more info on Cushings syndrome, which is an adrenal disorder

and caused by chronic, excess glucocorticoid, which can happen for

various reasons, explained later.

 

Clinical features are as follows:

* Centripetal fat deposition (buffalo hump and moon facies)

* Skin thinning and red / purple striae over the abdomen and flanks.

Bruising is common and wounds heal slowly.

* Lower limb oedema.

* Proximal muscle wasting.

* Osteoporosis, particularly of the vertebral bodies, leading to

compression fractures.

* Impaired defence against infections.

* Hypertension.

* Mild hirsutism in women.

* Amenorrhoea and infertility in women and impotence in men.

* Electrolyte disturbances (hypernatraemia and hypokalaemia)

* Impaired glucose tolerance or frank diabetes.

 

Its worth noting that the main reasons for Cushings syndrome is

various tumours that can cause secretion of ACTH or iatrogenic

causes such as patient taking prescribed glucocorticoids. However,

there is apparantly a pseudo-cushings syndrome that can be caused by

alcoholism / alcohol withdrawal or endogenous severe depression /

anxiety, or sometimes morbid obesity or diabetes, which can present

with all or some of the clinical features of " true " cushings

syndrome, and is differentiated by the fact that the hypothalamic-

pituitary-adrenal axis is fairly normal in pseudo-cushings.

One of my teachers, who taught diagnosis of western medicine, was

always emphasising cushings syndrome and addisons disease as things

that every TCM practitioner should be very familiar with, and refer

patients to a western doctor if suspected. I seem to remember going

over adrenal disorders constantly in that class, anyway. I dug out

some notes and thought Id share some info. Hope this helps.

Oh, if anyone has any info about treating patients with TCM for

adrenal disorders, Id be very interested to learn more. Is solely

TCM treatment advisable in these cases?

regards,

Lea.

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Guest guest

Lea,

 

Thank you very much for all the info, I really appreciate all your help.

 

Thanks again,

 

Gordon.

 

 

On 6/2/06, Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

>

> Some more info on Cushings syndrome, which is an adrenal disorder

> and caused by chronic, excess glucocorticoid, which can happen for

> various reasons, explained later.

>

> Clinical features are as follows:

> * Centripetal fat deposition (buffalo hump and moon facies)

> * Skin thinning and red / purple striae over the abdomen and flanks.

> Bruising is common and wounds heal slowly.

> * Lower limb oedema.

> * Proximal muscle wasting.

> * Osteoporosis, particularly of the vertebral bodies, leading to

> compression fractures.

> * Impaired defence against infections.

> * Hypertension.

> * Mild hirsutism in women.

> * Amenorrhoea and infertility in women and impotence in men.

> * Electrolyte disturbances (hypernatraemia and hypokalaemia)

> * Impaired glucose tolerance or frank diabetes.

>

> Its worth noting that the main reasons for Cushings syndrome is

> various tumours that can cause secretion of ACTH or iatrogenic

> causes such as patient taking prescribed glucocorticoids. However,

> there is apparantly a pseudo-cushings syndrome that can be caused by

> alcoholism / alcohol withdrawal or endogenous severe depression /

> anxiety, or sometimes morbid obesity or diabetes, which can present

> with all or some of the clinical features of " true " cushings

> syndrome, and is differentiated by the fact that the hypothalamic-

> pituitary-adrenal axis is fairly normal in pseudo-cushings.

> One of my teachers, who taught diagnosis of western medicine, was

> always emphasising cushings syndrome and addisons disease as things

> that every TCM practitioner should be very familiar with, and refer

> patients to a western doctor if suspected. I seem to remember going

> over adrenal disorders constantly in that class, anyway. I dug out

> some notes and thought Id share some info. Hope this helps.

> Oh, if anyone has any info about treating patients with TCM for

> adrenal disorders, Id be very interested to learn more. Is solely

> TCM treatment advisable in these cases?

> regards,

>

> Lea.

>

>

>

>

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

> and adjust

> accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Read *Adrenoplex* on the Evergreen products line.

Although Cushing Syndromes as you have described is way too far advanced,

vs as described in the book, I would choice to treat this way:

 

See: Adrenoplex (Clinical Manual of Oriental Medicine)

There are also point selections suggested.

 

My two cents.

amy

 

 

 

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Guest guest

Lea,

 

You might try looking at hormonal disorder treatments and conditions in Kiiko

Matsumoto's book on Clinical strategies vol 1. Her and her teachers approaches

are to consider the western syndrome with certain identifiable reflexes. When

the reflex disappears, so goes the problem that caused it.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

--------------

> Chinese Medicine

> leabun1

> Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:18:29 +0000

> Re: Unexplained Jing Luo Lines

>

> Some more info on Cushings syndrome, which is an adrenal disorder

> and caused by chronic, excess glucocorticoid, which can happen for

> various reasons, explained later.

> Clinical features are as follows:

> * Centripetal fat deposition (buffalo hump and moon facies)

> * Skin thinning and red / purple striae over the abdomen and flanks.

> Bruising is common and wounds heal slowly.

> * Lower limb oedema.

> * Proximal muscle wasting.

> * Osteoporosis, particularly of the vertebral bodies, leading to

> compression fractures.

> * Impaired defence against infections.

> * Hypertension.

> * Mild hirsutism in women.

> * Amenorrhoea and infertility in women and impotence in men.

> * Electrolyte disturbances (hypernatraemia and hypokalaemia)

> * Impaired glucose tolerance or frank diabetes.

> Its worth noting that the main reasons for Cushings syndrome is

> various tumours that can cause secretion of ACTH or iatrogenic

> causes such as patient taking prescribed glucocorticoids. However,

> there is apparantly a pseudo-cushings syndrome that can be caused by

> alcoholism / alcohol withdrawal or endogenous severe depression /

> anxiety, or sometimes morbid obesity or diabetes, which can present

> with all or some of the clinical features of " true " cushings

> syndrome, and is differentiated by the fact that the hypothalamic-

> pituitary-adrenal axis is fairly normal in pseudo-cushings.

> One of my teachers, who taught diagnosis of western medicine, was

> always emphasising cushings syndrome and addisons disease as things

> that every TCM practitioner should be very familiar with, and refer

> patients to a western doctor if suspected. I seem to remember going

> over adrenal disorders constantly in that class, anyway. I dug out

> some notes and thought Id share some info. Hope this helps.

> Oh, if anyone has any info about treating patients with TCM for

> adrenal disorders, Id be very interested to learn more. Is solely

> TCM treatment advisable in these cases?

> regards,

> Lea.

> Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Thanks Amy and Mike,

Unfortunately Im not familiar with Evergreen or Kiiko Matsumoto. I

think the former is a product line that is not available in

Australia, do they have a web site? As for the latter, I will have

to look out for any of her (her?) publications. I have noticed alot

of practitioners from the US seem to follow her work, and it sounds

very interesting.

Out of curiosity, would either of you try to work with a patient

with an adrenal disorder solely with TCM? (This is purely interest,

I dont have a patient with an adrenal disorder at the moment, the

striae discussion got me thinking, thats all. Ive only seen true

cushings syndrome secondary to taking steroids, and that was in the

rheumatology department in China.)

Lea.

 

Chinese Medicine , Amyc144

wrote:

>

>

> Read *Adrenoplex* on the Evergreen products line.

> Although Cushing Syndromes as you have described is way too far

advanced,

> vs as described in the book, I would choice to treat this way:

>

> See: Adrenoplex (Clinical Manual of Oriental Medicine)

> There are also point selections suggested.

>

> My two cents.

>

amy

>

>

>

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Guest guest

I have found that reactions that occur to various abdominal areas to be

indicative of various disorders as well. I have seen improvement with many

conditions and so the answer you are looking for would why not try and see how

the person responds to the care unless you think it is an ER situation. So the

answer is yes I would as long as the patient and I are able to have good

communication and understanding.

 

Kiiko has a lot more experience with this and writes about it. Even though the

patient originally had an endocrine disorder in many cases, she was able to help

them improve and in many cases eliminate the western medical condition. I

should also mention here that this is not TCM but a conglomeration of various

Japanese master practitioners she has and still spends time learning from. Mike

W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

: leabun1:

Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:33:03 +0000Re: Unexplained Jing Luo

LinesThanks Amy and Mike,Unfortunately Im not familiar with Evergreen or Kiiko

Matsumoto. I think the former is a product line that is not available in

Australia, do they have a web site? As for the latter, I will have to look out

for any of her (her?) publications. I have noticed alot of practitioners from

the US seem to follow her work, and it sounds very interesting.Out of curiosity,

would either of you try to work with a patient with an adrenal disorder solely

with TCM? (This is purely interest, I dont have a patient with an adrenal

disorder at the moment, the striae discussion got me thinking, thats all. Ive

only seen true cushings syndrome secondary to taking steroids, and that was in

the rheumatology department in China.)Lea. --- In

Chinese Medicine , Amyc144 wrote:>> > Read

*Adrenoplex* on the Evergreen products line.> Although Cushing Syndromes as you

have described is way too far advanced,> vs as described in the book, I would

choice to treat this way: > > See: Adrenoplex (Clinical Manual of Oriental

Medicine)> There are also point selections suggested.> > My two cents.>

amy> > >

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Guest guest

Thanks for the answer Mike.

Lea.

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1 wrote:

>

> I have found that reactions that occur to various abdominal areas

to be indicative of various disorders as well. I have seen

improvement with many conditions and so the answer you are looking

for would why not try and see how the person responds to the care

unless you think it is an ER situation. So the answer is yes I

would as long as the patient and I are able to have good

communication and understanding.

>

> Kiiko has a lot more experience with this and writes about it.

Even though the patient originally had an endocrine disorder in many

cases, she was able to help them improve and in many cases eliminate

the western medical condition. I should also mention here that this

is not TCM but a conglomeration of various Japanese master

practitioners she has and still spends time learning from. Mike W.

Bowser, L Ac

>

>

> : leabun1: Sat, 3 Jun 2006

00:33:03 +0000Re: Unexplained Jing Luo LinesThanks

Amy and Mike,Unfortunately Im not familiar with Evergreen or Kiiko

Matsumoto. I think the former is a product line that is not

available in Australia, do they have a web site? As for the latter,

I will have to look out for any of her (her?) publications. I have

noticed alot of practitioners from the US seem to follow her work,

and it sounds very interesting.Out of curiosity, would either of you

try to work with a patient with an adrenal disorder solely with TCM?

(This is purely interest, I dont have a patient with an adrenal

disorder at the moment, the striae discussion got me thinking, thats

all. Ive only seen true cushings syndrome secondary to taking

steroids, and that was in the rheumatology department in China.)

Lea. Chinese Medicine , Amyc144@

wrote:>> > Read *Adrenoplex* on the Evergreen products line.>

Although Cushing Syndromes as you have described is way too far

advanced,> vs as described in the book, I would choice to treat

this way: > > See: Adrenoplex (Clinical Manual of Oriental Medicine)

> There are also point selections suggested.> > My two

cents.>

amy> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Chinese

Medicine Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all

new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change

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