VALIDITY OF NEWLY DEVELOPED SHAM NEEDLE UNIT

[Guest guest]

And every herb/drug has an affect on the body whether it is the

right herb/drug or not. (sugar pills have tonifying affects)

 

Is the definition of sham: " having no affect " ? Even thinking about

the patient's illness will have an affect(quantum physics). There

will always be pseudo affects no matter what you do. What we need to

look for in acupucture studies is the correct affect. Treating the

root and it's manifestations of each patient.

 

Kelvin

 

Chinese Medicine , " Robert Chu "

<chusauli wrote:

>

> If I may be so bold to offer my opinion:

>

> There is no such thing as sham acupuncture. Every place on the

body is an

> acupuncture point whether it is on the channels or not.

>

>

>

> Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

> chusauli

>

> www.chusaulei.com

>

>

>

>

>

> > " " <zrosenbe

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Re: VALIDITY OF NEWLY DEVELOPED SHAM NEEDLE UNIT

> >Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:09:20 -0700

> >

> >Then they'll miss the boat. You know, the skill and dedication of

> >the practitioner is what is going to turn people on to Chinese

> >medicine, not these studies.

> >

> >

> >On Jun 5, 2006, at 5:50 AM, mike Bowser wrote:

> >

> > > Zev,

> > > I agree but was pointing out that much of the so-called

research

> > > looks at the needle and not what is really going on nor how we

> > > apply it.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree. And I believe correct usage of English is also helpful:

 

Affect is the verb causing an Effect (the noun);

(if in doubt, just always use Effect as both verb and noun)

A-duction is more easily heard when rhyming with hey;

A-Be-duction moves away from the midline;

A-fferent nerve conduction a-scends toward brain or CNS, and is

primarily sensory;

E-fferent nerve impulses dE-scend toward periphery, and is primarily

motor and control.

In the Special F/X biz, visualizing Effects is the process of bringing

imagination to fruition, and facilitating the next transition which is

in fact already about to happen. A little like acupuncture/yisheng

etcetera.

 

Joe Reid

 

 

> And every herb/drug has an affect on the body whether it is the

> right herb/drug or not. (sugar pills have tonifying affects)

> Is the definition of sham: " having no affect " ? Even thinking about

> the patient's illness will have an affect(quantum physics). There

> will always be pseudo affects no matter what you do. What we need to

> look for in acupucture studies is the correct affect. Treating the

> root and it's manifestations of each patient.

> Kelvin

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Robert Chu "

> <chusauli@> wrote:

> > If I may be so bold to offer my opinion:

> > There is no such thing as sham acupuncture. Every place on the

> body is an

> > acupuncture point whether it is on the channels or not.

> > Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kelvin. Interesting viewpoint. I am sure Japanese acupuncture

is very valid but I wanted to know how this sham needle could be

having an effect if the needle was not entering the body as in TCM

style acupuncture. Especially, how can a needle either tonify or

disperse if it not entering the skin.

 

Anyone else have an answer to this one?

 

I think most of us on this list do not think in terms of nerves,

endorphins etc when we are applying acupuncture but are focused on

the Qi.

 

Angelo

 

--- In

Chinese Medicine , " acupuncturebeverlyhills

" <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

>

> It's affecting the enegetic layer above the skin. And it's actually

> a technique I use on kids who don't like needles. Works great too.

> FYI - Japnese styles like meridian therapy are based on the Chinese

> classics so why would yo want to leave them aside?

> (It depends on if you believe that acupucture is only about nerves,

> nitrous oxide, endorphines or if you believe those things are just

> the leaves that blow and acupuncture affects the wind that blows

> them.)

>

> Kelvin

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Angelo

> DAlberto " <angelo_dalberto@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Kelvin,

> >

> > Excuse my ignorance - but how can this sham needle be dispersing

> > regular points and tonifying source points if it is not even

> > puncturing the skin? (Leaving the Japanese style of acupuncture

> aside)

> >

> > TIA

> >

> > Angelo

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Angelo Wrote,

 

Excuse my ignorance - but how can this sham needle be dispersing

regular points and tonifying source points if it is not even

puncturing the skin? (Leaving the Japanese style of acupuncture aside). "

 

 

 

In fact there is NO Japanese style as such. In Japan there are thousands of

practitioners using large gauge needles with de qi most could not handle

including me.

 

I have mentioned before that there is " acupuncture in Japan " but really no

style. There is however a system of shallow needling popular in Japan and

popular in the west now too. This has become a matter of marketing to needle

shy westerners. I have seen 4 " needle connecting bladder points underneath

the ligament between the spinous process (from BL 23 right to BL23 left) to

correct subluxations etc performed by practitioners trained in Japan. I

think it is important to remember that the shallow Shudo Denmai type of

acupuncture is really only part of the picture. I do not expect the deep,

heavy, musculo-skeletal type also popular in Japan to flood to the west

anytime soon although it is a really powerful form of acupuncture.

 

 

 

Ray Ford

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bob, gramarr and spelin has allways bean a grate weaknees 4 me

and Ive allwaz had too ave peeple like yoos around. Insadentallee if

your intrested my secratary is leevin in awegust, you can send a CV to

acupuncturebeverlyhills

 

Calvin

 

Chinese Medicine , " jreidomd "

<jreidomd wrote:

>

> I agree. And I believe correct usage of English is also helpful:

>

> Affect is the verb causing an Effect (the noun);

> (if in doubt, just always use Effect as both verb and noun)

> A-duction is more easily heard when rhyming with hey;

> A-Be-duction moves away from the midline;

> A-fferent nerve conduction a-scends toward brain or CNS, and is

> primarily sensory;

> E-fferent nerve impulses dE-scend toward periphery, and is primarily

> motor and control.

> In the Special F/X biz, visualizing Effects is the process of bringing

> imagination to fruition, and facilitating the next transition which is

> in fact already about to happen. A little like acupuncture/yisheng

> etcetera.

>

> Joe Reid

>

>

> > And every herb/drug has an affect on the body whether it is the

> > right herb/drug or not. (sugar pills have tonifying affects)

> > Is the definition of sham: " having no affect " ? Even thinking about

> > the patient's illness will have an affect(quantum physics). There

> > will always be pseudo affects no matter what you do. What we need to

> > look for in acupucture studies is the correct affect. Treating the

> > root and it's manifestations of each patient.

> > Kelvin

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " Robert Chu "

> > <chusauli@> wrote:

> > > If I may be so bold to offer my opinion:

> > > There is no such thing as sham acupuncture. Every place on the

> > body is an

> > > acupuncture point whether it is on the channels or not.

> > > Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

>

[Guest guest]

Sum1 reely oughta frame that

 

[acupuncturebeverlyhills] wrote:

Thanks Bob, gramarr and spelin has allways bean a grate weaknees 4 me

and Ive allwaz had too ave peeple like yoos around. Insadentallee if

your intrested my secratary is leevin in awegust, you can send a CV to

acupuncturebeverlyhills

 

Calvin

 

Chinese Medicine , " jreidomd "

<jreidomd wrote:

>

> I agree. And I believe correct usage of English is also helpful:

>

> Affect is the verb causing an Effect (the noun);

> (if in doubt, just always use Effect as both verb and noun)

> A-duction is more easily heard when rhyming with hey;

> A-Be-duction moves away from the midline;

> A-fferent nerve conduction a-scends toward brain or CNS, and is

> primarily sensory;

> E-fferent nerve impulses dE-scend toward periphery, and is primarily

> motor and control.

> In the Special F/X biz, visualizing Effects is the process of bringing

> imagination to fruition, and facilitating the next transition which is

> in fact already about to happen. A little like acupuncture/yisheng

> etcetera.

>

> Joe Reid

>

>

> > And every herb/drug has an affect on the body whether it is the

> > right herb/drug or not. (sugar pills have tonifying affects)

> > Is the definition of sham: " having no affect " ? Even thinking about

> > the patient's illness will have an affect(quantum physics). There

> > will always be pseudo affects no matter what you do. What we need to

> > look for in acupucture studies is the correct affect. Treating the

> > root and it's manifestations of each patient.

> > Kelvin

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " Robert Chu "

> > <chusauli@> wrote:

> > > If I may be so bold to offer my opinion:

> > > There is no such thing as sham acupuncture. Every place on the

> > body is an

> > > acupuncture point whether it is on the channels or not.

> > > Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

>

[Guest guest]

Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:09:03 -0000 " Angelo DAlberto "

<angelo_dalberto wrote:

 

>… how this sham needle could be having an

effect if the needle was not entering the body as

in TCM style acupuncture. Especially, how can a

needle either tonify or disperse if it not entering the skin.

 

Maybe it's comparable to modalities like magnets

and ear pellets, which also do not break the

skin. Orientation of the magnetic field is said

to effect bu/xie. And, at least in the case of

the Japanese style steel ear pellets, silver

plate is said to disperse, and gold plate to tonify.