Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I have been reading various posts expressing a desire by practitioners to be able to practice chinese medicine surgical procedures and or emergency medicine. I was wondering if people could describe to me exactly what situations they are thinking about when they say this. Ive been having a think about it, and I feel that if a patient presented to my clinic with an acute, emergency type illness I would do what most GP's would do, and do what I could in a first aid context and then kick them out of the clinic into the waiting ambulance so they could go to an ER for treatment. And as for surgical procedures, I've been thinking about that too, and about the most common surgical procedures that were provided for patients in the hospital I studied at in China. They tended to be things like doing dilation and curettage for terminations of pregnancy's or removing anal warts. And as for invasive diagnostic tests, most western doctors dont actually tend to do things like bone marrow biopsys themselves, do they? I thought they tended to refer the patient to a specialist who does the procedure. Other surgical procedures were western surgical techniques and not specifically chinese, like appendectomies, etc. Could you describe some of these other surgical procedures that you're talking about for me? I looked at my " Surgery of traditional Chinese Medicine " textbook and its mostly all dermatology. Is chinese bone-setting actually different in technique to western bone setting in the actual reduction of the fracture or dislocation? Or is it just different in the management of the limb after it has been set? (Cane splints instead of plaster casts, etc.) I have to say, that even though I think that some western medicine falls short of the mark. I feel that orthopaedic surgery has got to be one of the high points of western medicine. Hats off to orthopaedic surgeons, when you need one, you really need one. Thanks, Lea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Hi Lea, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the issue is legality. I want to be able to utilize therapies and clinical procedures that I have been taught, and which I can competently perform. If I have been adequately trained to do something, I want to be able to make the decision to do it, without fearing that I will lose my license. As I mentioned in a previous post, an example that comes to mind is sterile injectables. If I receive the training to inject a particular herbal formula to treat a particular condition, I don't want my hands tied. I'm not in the least suggesting that our medicine should replace emergency medicine, rather, I hope for the day when we will be able to attend to medical emergencies along side Western physicians as equal partners, or be able to treat them independently if we so desire, (again, of course with appropriate training). However, the key to this ever happening is autonomy apart from those agencies which govern and enforce western medicine, ie. the FDA and the DEA in the US. Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, :L.Ac. leabun1 <leabun1 wrote: I have been reading various posts expressing a desire by practitioners to be able to practice chinese medicine surgical procedures and or emergency medicine. I was wondering if people could describe to me exactly what situations they are thinking about when they say this. Ive been having a think about it, and I feel that if a patient presented to my clinic with an acute, emergency type illness I would do what most GP's would do, and do what I could in a first aid context and then kick them out of the clinic into the waiting ambulance so they could go to an ER for treatment. And as for surgical procedures, I've been thinking about that too, and about the most common surgical procedures that were provided for patients in the hospital I studied at in China. They tended to be things like doing dilation and curettage for terminations of pregnancy's or removing anal warts. And as for invasive diagnostic tests, most western doctors dont actually tend to do things like bone marrow biopsys themselves, do they? I thought they tended to refer the patient to a specialist who does the procedure. Other surgical procedures were western surgical techniques and not specifically chinese, like appendectomies, etc. Could you describe some of these other surgical procedures that you're talking about for me? I looked at my " Surgery of traditional Chinese Medicine " textbook and its mostly all dermatology. Is chinese bone-setting actually different in technique to western bone setting in the actual reduction of the fracture or dislocation? Or is it just different in the management of the limb after it has been set? (Cane splints instead of plaster casts, etc.) I have to say, that even though I think that some western medicine falls short of the mark. I feel that orthopaedic surgery has got to be one of the high points of western medicine. Hats off to orthopaedic surgeons, when you need one, you really need one. Thanks, Lea. Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 The surgical procedures i was talking about are cat gut suture and the use of blade like needles to treat pain for which one needs the ability to numb the area and thus injection of local anesthetics. When i was in china our ER (in a TCM hospital) used no TCM. It was almost 100% WM. Oakland, CA 94609 - leabun1 Chinese Medicine Saturday, May 20, 2006 9:09 PM Re: Surgery of and emergency medicine I have been reading various posts expressing a desire by practitioners to be able to practice chinese medicine surgical procedures and or emergency medicine. I was wondering if people could describe to me exactly what situations they are thinking about when they say this. Ive been having a think about it, and I feel that if a patient presented to my clinic with an acute, emergency type illness I would do what most GP's would do, and do what I could in a first aid context and then kick them out of the clinic into the waiting ambulance so they could go to an ER for treatment. And as for surgical procedures, I've been thinking about that too, and about the most common surgical procedures that were provided for patients in the hospital I studied at in China. They tended to be things like doing dilation and curettage for terminations of pregnancy's or removing anal warts. And as for invasive diagnostic tests, most western doctors dont actually tend to do things like bone marrow biopsys themselves, do they? I thought they tended to refer the patient to a specialist who does the procedure. Other surgical procedures were western surgical techniques and not specifically chinese, like appendectomies, etc. Could you describe some of these other surgical procedures that you're talking about for me? I looked at my " Surgery of traditional Chinese Medicine " textbook and its mostly all dermatology. Is chinese bone-setting actually different in technique to western bone setting in the actual reduction of the fracture or dislocation? Or is it just different in the management of the limb after it has been set? (Cane splints instead of plaster casts, etc.) I have to say, that even though I think that some western medicine falls short of the mark. I feel that orthopaedic surgery has got to be one of the high points of western medicine. Hats off to orthopaedic surgeons, when you need one, you really need one. Thanks, Lea. Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Thankyou for the replies, Yehuda and Alon. I guess I overlooked sterile injectables, as I didnt bother with that dept. in China for the very reason that I knew it wouldnt be in my scope of practice here in Australia. I dont know about the actual legalities of it, but I have noticed that all of a sudden theres alot of dodgy people offering " fat blaster " injections. (Phosphatidylcholine? I cant remember...) And they seem to get away with it. I'll have to check the legislation. I know we cant leave studs or needles in the scalp, though. (I remember watching a chinese documentary at uni that showed happy people in china getting scalp acupuncture with the needles taped down and then going skiing, of all things. And we also are technically not allowed to touch the body of the needle in Australia when needling, only the handle, so guide tubes are the norm. Havent heard of the cat gut sutures or cutting therapy before though. That sounds interesting. Thanks, Lea. Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus DOM " <alonmarcus wrote: > > The surgical procedures i was talking about are cat gut suture and the use of blade like needles to treat pain for which one needs the ability to numb the area and thus injection of local anesthetics. When i was in china our ER (in a TCM hospital) used no TCM. It was almost 100% WM. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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