The use of Yunnan Baiyao

May 20, 2006

Hi all

I have a question regarding the function of Yunnan Baiyao and will

illustrate it by a Case example.

I treat a patient at the age of 55 with problems at " period " time. With

this I mean that she still has her period and quite a lot of bleeding

for about 5 days. When I started to treat her she had bleedings two

times per month, which now has been limited to once a month. According

to her MD she is in the middle of menopause and for sure has both Kid

yin and yang def. Even though her doctors say that she is in her

menopause, they have told her that she needs to perform a Hysterectomy

because of her bleeding.

I have therefore tried to limit/end the bleeding with the use of

different blood stopping herbs and for the last 3 months with Yunnan

Baiyao, including the trauma pill. The last bleeding she had, she used

Yunnan Baiyao capsules 4 days before the bleeding was scheduled, and

when the bleeding started took 2 red trauma pills. This stopped the

bleeding for that day, but it started the next day again and continued

for 4 more days.

So my question is, why does Yunnan Baiyao not stop the bleeding? Might

this be because Yunnan Baiyao is an " intelligent " herb formula and would

only stop the bleeding if it was pathological, in that sense, that if

this woman still is in her menopause and the bleeding is still natural,

Yunnan Baiyao will not stop the bleeding because it is natural? Would

Yunnan Baiyao stop the period bleeding in a healthy 25 years old woman?

What if this 25 years old woman had period bleeding for 10 days, would

Yunnan Baiyao stop the " extra " bleeding and limit the bleeding to a more

" natural " bleeding?

Bets regards

Carl

May 20, 2006

Hi Carl,

A few questions:

Do the docs want to perform the hysterectomy because of fibroids? What's

their dx, do you know?

Does the patient want her periods to be stopped? Or just to be more " normal "

(normal frequency, quantity, etc.)

What are you diagnosing as the cause of the bleeding? What are the other

aspects of her menses (how far apart, color of the blood, are there clots,

what is the history, etc.)?

How long did you treat the patient before she started bleeding only once a

month, instead of twice? Is her cycle regular (in terms of time between

periods)?

Four days of menstrual flow doesn't sound excessive to me, depending on how

heavy it is. I can see (have seen) Yunnan Bai Yao (or some such) being used

to stanch " extra " bleeding (e.g. from fibroids), but menstrual " bleeding "

isn't really bleeding, right? -that is, it's not normally the kind of

traumatic bleeding one usually uses Yunnan Bai Yao for. Indeed, interfering

with the normal " sloughing " of the uterine lining/menstrual fluid could

presumably cause stasis.

In the 25 year old you're imagining, what is the cause of the heavy

bleeding? Stasis? Heat? Spleen Qi not holding Blood? Because Yunnan Bai

Yao wouldn't really be indicated in all of those cases...indeed, in this

case there may be be also be a combination of any/all of those factors.

I look forward to hearing others' responses...

cheers,

Nora

On 5/20/06, Carl Henryk Wallmark <carlhenryk.wallmark wrote:

>

> Hi all

>

> I have a question regarding the function of Yunnan Baiyao and will

> illustrate it by a Case example.

>

> I treat a patient at the age of 55 with problems at " period " time. With

> this I mean that she still has her period and quite a lot of bleeding

> for about 5 days. When I started to treat her she had bleedings two

> times per month, which now has been limited to once a month. According

> to her MD she is in the middle of menopause and for sure has both Kid

> yin and yang def. Even though her doctors say that she is in her

> menopause, they have told her that she needs to perform a Hysterectomy

> because of her bleeding.

>

> I have therefore tried to limit/end the bleeding with the use of

> different blood stopping herbs and for the last 3 months with Yunnan

> Baiyao, including the trauma pill. The last bleeding she had, she used

> Yunnan Baiyao capsules 4 days before the bleeding was scheduled, and

> when the bleeding started took 2 red trauma pills. This stopped the

> bleeding for that day, but it started the next day again and continued

> for 4 more days.

>

> So my question is, why does Yunnan Baiyao not stop the bleeding? Might

> this be because Yunnan Baiyao is an " intelligent " herb formula and would

> only stop the bleeding if it was pathological, in that sense, that if

> this woman still is in her menopause and the bleeding is still natural,

> Yunnan Baiyao will not stop the bleeding because it is natural? Would

> Yunnan Baiyao stop the period bleeding in a healthy 25 years old woman?

> What if this 25 years old woman had period bleeding for 10 days, would

> Yunnan Baiyao stop the " extra " bleeding and limit the bleeding to a more

> " natural " bleeding?

>

> Bets regards

> Carl

>

May 21, 2006

Dear Carl,

I agree with Nora: It is a terrible mistake to use Chinese medicinal

substances and practice Western allopathic medicine. The first question you

need to determine is what is the differential diagnosis? And what is the

reason why she is bleeding, for that matter? Is there heat (repetion or

vacuity) or cold? Is there blood stasis? My first thought in such a case would

be fibroids. Have appropriate scans been ordered to determine that? I love

Yunnan Bai yao. But to be effective it has to be used with the appropriate

indications. The wrong diagnostic treatment will be either ineffective or even

harmful! Bottom line: we are detectives--we don't look for magic bullets to

" stop " a pathological state, rather inappropriate bleeding is your patient's

body speaking to you and telling you loud and clear that something is out of

balance. Determine what it is and you will be a successful agent for healing.

SIncerely,

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

Nora Madden <noraneedles wrote: