Pseudoscience, the Paranormal and Mirror Neurons

[Guest guest]

Hi Robert & All,

 

Robert Chu wrote:

> Often we think that we follow a tradition and the dogma behind it. We

> get stuck in " Sifu sez " mode. I don't believe in that. I want to find

> out the source, and I want to know for myself if it is dogma or truth.

 

Right on, man!

 

Don Snow wrote:

> When someone with a Bachelor's degree speaks or writes and someone

> with a Master's degree writes and article in disagreement. Who's word

> has the authority to carry the day? The Master's degree....

 

replied

> I believe that, more often than not, people in the scientific/medical

> community (in the USA) will form judgements according to the merits of

> the evidence and logic.

 

I agree with Chris. Authority (moral, scientific or political) does not depend

on letters after one's name. The great spiritual leaders (saints, prophets,

teachers of morality & ethics) and ancient healers of antiquity held no

University degrees.

 

In scientific research, the RESULTS, published in peer-reviewed journals

are what count. Peers in other labs can challenge a scientist's published

results and conclusions and can repeat the controversial experiments.

 

If the repeated experiments yield results that agree with the newcomer's,

the newcomer is credited with that finding.

 

That happened twice to me in the early days of my research with clinical

disorders in cattle. The first time was in 1969, when we published a paper

on sites of major-element absorption from the digestive tract of cows. The

cows were fitted with permanent ruminal, duodenal and ileal sampling

cannulas and two markers (PEG and Cr2O3, were used to allow

calculations of digesta flow at the duodenum and terminal ileum. Absorption

sites of Ca, P, K and Na were as conventional wisdom of the day had

claimed, BUT Mg differed radically from that currently held. See:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/129/11/2043 [in ruminants, magnesium

absorption takes place essentially in the rumen (Rogers and Van't Klooster

1969 , Tomas and Potter 1976 ) ...].

 

Before our 1969 paper, the gurus of the day [many of them " heavyweights "

in ruminant nutrition research] held that magnesium absorption was mainly

post-duodenal. I was a newcomer (just out of college in 1964), wet behind

the ears, and with a mere Batchelor's degree (in Vet Med). Naturally, the

gurus hollered. They suspected errors in our experiments (rather than

relooking at the methods they THEY used - which subsequently were shown

to be poor methods!]. But when several different groups repeated our

experiments, using our (minimally invasive and in-vivo) methods, they

confirmed our basic conclusion - that the main site of Mg absorption was

pre-duodenal.

 

The second instance also was in 1969, when I happened to read a research

paper by Kersjes' group in Utrecht. The article ( .... in Dutch) described TDG

(terminal dry gangrene, esp from the hind fetlocks down) as a side-effect of

experimental salmonella infection in calves. At that time

 

TDG was common in Irish calf units at the time and we had no idea as to its

cause. The Professor of Vet Med (Dublin), who was a very highly qualified

academic, had attributed the cause of TDG to ergotism, but all attempts to

confirm ergot-exposure of the calves or their dams had failed to find it.

 

I wrote a brief note to the Irish Vet profession to suggest that we examine

for evidence of salmonella or similar enteric bacterial pathogens, in future

outbreaks of TDG in calves [Rogers PAM (1969) Terminal dry gangrene in

calves. Irish Vet J 23, 126-127]. That alert led to a paper from THREE labs

(Vet School, Dublin, Vet Research Lab, Dublin, and our Lab (Agric Res Inst,

Dunsinea) that confirmed evidence of salmonella exposure in every

instance of terminal dry gangrene investigated by us over an 19-month

period after the publication of the original alert to look for it.

 

Thus, novices occasionally produce results and conclusions that shatter

currently-held conclusions of senior (and more highly qualified

academically) members of the scientific professions.

 

Robert wrote:

> Master Tung often stated, " Observe for yourself, then you will know. "

> Of course, this may be skewed according to our beliefs. Many times, we

> believe so much in our instructors, we become little clones and stop

> thinking.

 

IMO, when we stop thinking, questioning and studying, we are starting to die

professionally. It is a great mistake, IMO, to trust gurus too much. They, like

we, are fallible, mortal and will die regardless of their medical and spiritual

knowledge.

 

> Confucius said that when he points out 1 corner of a table, the student

> should be able to point out the other 3. If the student could not, he

> would refuse teaching him.

 

Confucius must have been an impatient teacher, otherwise he would have

helped his students to see the other 3 corners ;-)

 

The mediocre teacher concentrates more on the brightest students. The

great teacher, however, has time for all her students, and tries especially

hard to educate the weaker ones [educare (Latin) = to lead out (from

intellectual darkness into the light)].

 

Robert continued:

> With the technology of the fMRI and Dr. Zang Hee Cho's research, we

> can see the mechanism of acupuncture is to send a signal to the brain

> to regain homeostasis. I believe Master Tung's Dao Ma Zhen technique

> to be a means to send a stronger signal, as is the Bu and Xie methods

> of Acupuncture. I hope our colleagues can discuss this further.

 

With fMRI, one can see that many different stimuli (including thoughts and

emotions) send signal to different parts of the brain's control centres.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4715327.stm

 

Are Thoresen has written recently about " Mirror Neurons " that respond to

external stimuli, including the thoughts of others.

 

Web definitions for Mirror neurons: A Mirror neuron is a neuron which fires

both when performing an action and when observing the same action

performed by another (possibly conspecific) creature. Thus, the neuron

" mirrors " the behavior of another animal, as though the observer were

performing the action. These neurons have been observed in primates,

some birds, and humans in Broca's and premotor cortical areas of the brain.

.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neurons

 

See also several papers & abstracts on " mirror neurons " at

http://www.neurotransmitter.net/mirrorneurons.html

 

MIrror neurons may explain many hard-to-explain phenomena, like how

does a massive flock of starlings (or shoal of fish), or a stampeding herd of

wild horses, move in complex and total coordination, as if it is one

organism.

 

MIrror neurons also also may be the structural basis for more difficult-to-

explain phenomena, like empathy, instinctive dislike of (or lack of trust in)

another, telepathy, telekinesis, distant-viewing, distant-healing, etc.

 

I realise that some people are leery of any topic that smacks of the occult

(hidden, such as dowsing, " muscle-testing " as used in kinesiology, VAS or

Nogier Pulses, etc), the spiritual (some people do not believe in a spiritual

existence independent of the soma/brain), or of the paranormal. Skeptics

call these topics pseudoscience and dismiss those who accept, or are open

to, these ideas Wu-Wu or New Age crackpots.

 

So be it. Some of those ideas are very real for me. Unfortunately, they also

are frustratingly unpredictable and very difficult to reproduce whan they are

needed.

 

Best regards,

Phil