How to integrate? Give me liberty or....

[Guest guest]

Dear Alon,

 

OK, but how do you propose to implement this integration? Are you suggesting

a scenario whereby 50 years from now all medicine will be one? Where all

students will learn basics of both systems, Western allopathic and Traditional

, and then there will be specialization into one specific

area--essentially merging the two medicines together and clinically applying the

most useful and appropriate therapy? If that's the vision that you have, (and

by the way from what I know that is the direction that is being taken in the

PRC) then I must respectfully disagree with it. Rather, my vision is to

continue on the current path that both the allopaths and we are on: to

encourage them to study and apply medical acupuncture, and integrate much of

what Western naturopaths do, expanding their arsenal in treating and

ameliorating symptoms, but with much less heroic and much more " user-friendly "

therapies. In Europe alot of MDs are doing just that and that

integration I find very enlightened.

 

But, as far as we are concerned, my vision is for us to develop and refine

confirming technological tools to streamline clinical diagnosis and treatment,

detect subtle differences and changes in signs and symptoms, and image

stagnation in the channels, for example. Just as western imaging technologies

have brought about dramatic advances in diagnosis, so too our new tools will

allow the clinician to note subtleties in tongue, pulses and face, which

heretofore may not have been detectable. For example, John Amaro's work

refining Japanese Ryodoraku diagnosis, or more sophisticated

electro-microcurrents for electro-acupuncture, or using diagnostic thermography,

or some of the new formula programs, offering herbs or formulae based upon

symptoms or patterns. Herbally, with appropriate funding, we can truly make our

medicine a global medicine by adding the thousands of medicinal plants and

substances to our pharmacopia/ materia medica, and formulas. The ancients have

established the patterns, and we can expand upon the success of our treatments

by what we include! Sky is really the limit on what we can do.

 

BUT, this is predicated on maintaining our own path, using the various

traditional methods of Chinese differential diagnosis, and our own medicines.

We must continue to treat both branch and root and we must seek homeostasis and

balance. Let patients choose which way they want to go. I agree that the key

is utilitizing technology and research, the question is how and part of the key

to that is maintaining our integrity and regaining our autonomy, including

self-policing.

 

Integration of technology? absolutely! Integration of theory and clinical

application? never!

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac. (aka Patrick Henry)

 

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda

I agree except that this is 2006. We must integrate within the education system

if we want to become major players. It will not occur otherwise

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:36 PM

Re: Why It is important to be a called a Doctor

 

 

Alon,

 

Western allopathic medicine also evolved and developed. It's not a question

of them playing by the rules and us not. For just like us, through, legal

precedent and legislative lobbying, (read greasing the palms of politicians) the

AMA and the pharmeceutical lobbies set their own terms, over the last hundred

years. AND THEY'RE SCARED STIFF OF LOSING ANY OF THEIR TERRITORY! To have

Bill Frist, MD as senate majority leader further entreches their monopoly. But

just like the chiropractors eaked out a niche, so can we. And the more our

clinical work and research is validatated , the weaker their grip. The more

validity we have, the more autonomy we will have. They have their DEA and FDA,

but ideally we need to have our own national regulatory agencies, independent of

MDs, so that we can police ourselves. I am absolutely convinced that it will

happen within the next twenty years.

 

Just you wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda

The difference between us and them is that they played by the rules and we

made our own. As long as we are going to continue, and the DAOM is just that, we

will stay outside the main game.

If we start real graduate education integrated to the rest of the education

system in the US we will be able to truly join in. We just cant have it both

ways.

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:30 PM

Why It is important to be a called a Doctor

 

 

Alon,

 

The issue is not so much what we think of ourselves, but rather our

access to other medical professionals, insurance companies and most importantly

the lay public. Titles are respected, which in itself is unimportant, but what

is important is that they generate clients, higher fees, and greater insurance

reimbursal. Why is a 4 year course of study, which prepares us (at least in

California) for a very difficult state board exam, any less valid as

justification to be called a primary care physician, than a chiropractor? By

reinforcing our clinical and diagnostic skills, and teaching us skills which

really should be within our scope of practice, but aren't because of territory

issues, such as bone setting, we validate this premise. Why should an MD get

reimbursed thousands from insurance companies for fairly simple yet

hi-tech procedures which require their expertise, while we get

reimbursed $25-50 for an equally specialized yet different skill?. We are able

to act as healing agents in ways that MD's are completely unsuccessful and even

impotent, yet to insurance companies, to physicians and to a brainwashed public

we are " Licensed " or " certified " Acupuncturists--just like " licensed " or

" certified " massage therapists or physical therapists.

 

As far as I am concerned this status quo is absurd, and though I

understand it is a reality which has evolved from the political realities and

the lobbying protectionism of the MDS and the Chiropractors, the extra year or

so of required courses enabling us to REALLY be doctors would level the playing

field.

 

The DAOM is all we have available now and I am grateful for it, but

because I am a Jewish Sabbath observer and the programs I have spoken to

(Emperor's and PCOM) are not able to accommodate my religious observance, I am

stuck as an L.Ac. G-d forbid I should ever refer to myself as a doctor. I

would be breaking the law! So I must be content to wait...and operate a cash

practice.

 

Respectfully,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.(for now)

 

<alonmarcus wrote:

If this was to come with regional accreditation i would feel ok about it.

As is its all political

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

-

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:47 PM

Re: Tong's points specific order response by Dr. Snow

 

 

Alon,

I've heard through the grapevine that the DAOM may become a

required degree in California within five years. Almost certainly,

to teach in California schools, it will be necessary. I am not too

happy to be in my 50's with a more than full time practice plus

teaching position to think about going back to school again.

 

On May 17, 2006, at 1:40 PM, wrote:

 

> The OMD is as useless and new DAOM, neither one is regionally

> accredited and outside our little world is not recognized as

> anything more than a paper mill.

> The OMD degree was what the available degree at that time. I think

> the world was a little different than most of the new graduate

> understand. My DOM is the same type of useless paper so i am not

> trying to just dis others.

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda

I am with you. I just think we need to do this within the higher education

system. Developments such as you describe need the regular medical environment

to develop. Hospital care and money. As long as we continue on our current path

this will never happen.

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:11 PM

How to integrate? " Give me liberty or.... "

 

 

Dear Alon,

 

OK, but how do you propose to implement this integration? Are you

suggesting a scenario whereby 50 years from now all medicine will be one?

Where all students will learn basics of both systems, Western allopathic and

Traditional , and then there will be specialization into one

specific area--essentially merging the two medicines together and clinically

applying the most useful and appropriate therapy? If that's the vision that you

have, (and by the way from what I know that is the direction that is being taken

in the PRC) then I must respectfully disagree with it. Rather, my vision is to

continue on the current path that both the allopaths and we are on: to

encourage them to study and apply medical acupuncture, and integrate much of

what Western naturopaths do, expanding their arsenal in treating and

ameliorating symptoms, but with much less heroic and much more " user-friendly "

therapies. In Europe alot of MDs are doing just that and that

integration I find very enlightened.

 

But, as far as we are concerned, my vision is for us to develop and refine

confirming technological tools to streamline clinical diagnosis and treatment,

detect subtle differences and changes in signs and symptoms, and image

stagnation in the channels, for example. Just as western imaging technologies

have brought about dramatic advances in diagnosis, so too our new tools will

allow the clinician to note subtleties in tongue, pulses and face, which

heretofore may not have been detectable. For example, John Amaro's work

refining Japanese Ryodoraku diagnosis, or more sophisticated

electro-microcurrents for electro-acupuncture, or using diagnostic thermography,

or some of the new formula programs, offering herbs or formulae based upon

symptoms or patterns. Herbally, with appropriate funding, we can truly make our

medicine a global medicine by adding the thousands of medicinal plants and

substances to our pharmacopia/ materia medica, and formulas. The ancients have

established the patterns, and we can expand upon the success of our treatments

by what we include! Sky is really the limit on what we can do.

 

BUT, this is predicated on maintaining our own path, using the various

traditional methods of Chinese differential diagnosis, and our own medicines.

We must continue to treat both branch and root and we must seek homeostasis and

balance. Let patients choose which way they want to go. I agree that the key

is utilitizing technology and research, the question is how and part of the key

to that is maintaining our integrity and regaining our autonomy, including

self-policing.

 

Integration of technology? absolutely! Integration of theory and clinical

application? never!

 

SIncerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac. (aka Patrick Henry)

 

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda

I agree except that this is 2006. We must integrate within the education

system if we want to become major players. It will not occur otherwise

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:36 PM

Re: Why It is important to be a called a Doctor

 

 

Alon,

 

Western allopathic medicine also evolved and developed. It's not a

question of them playing by the rules and us not. For just like us, through,

legal precedent and legislative lobbying, (read greasing the palms of

politicians) the AMA and the pharmeceutical lobbies set their own terms, over

the last hundred years. AND THEY'RE SCARED STIFF OF LOSING ANY OF THEIR

TERRITORY! To have Bill Frist, MD as senate majority leader further entreches

their monopoly. But just like the chiropractors eaked out a niche, so can we.

And the more our clinical work and research is validatated , the weaker their

grip. The more validity we have, the more autonomy we will have. They have

their DEA and FDA, but ideally we need to have our own national regulatory

agencies, independent of MDs, so that we can police ourselves. I am absolutely

convinced that it will happen within the next twenty years.

 

Just you wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.

<alonmarcus wrote:

Yehuda

The difference between us and them is that they played by the rules and we

made our own. As long as we are going to continue, and the DAOM is just that, we

will stay outside the main game.

If we start real graduate education integrated to the rest of the education

system in the US we will be able to truly join in. We just cant have it both

ways.

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

-

yehuda frischman

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:30 PM

Why It is important to be a called a Doctor

 

 

Alon,

 

The issue is not so much what we think of ourselves, but rather our

access to other medical professionals, insurance companies and most importantly

the lay public. Titles are respected, which in itself is unimportant, but what

is important is that they generate clients, higher fees, and greater insurance

reimbursal. Why is a 4 year course of study, which prepares us (at least in

California) for a very difficult state board exam, any less valid as

justification to be called a primary care physician, than a chiropractor? By

reinforcing our clinical and diagnostic skills, and teaching us skills which

really should be within our scope of practice, but aren't because of territory

issues, such as bone setting, we validate this premise. Why should an MD get

reimbursed thousands from insurance companies for fairly simple yet

hi-tech procedures which require their expertise, while we get

reimbursed $25-50 for an equally specialized yet different skill?. We are able

to act as healing agents in ways that MD's are completely unsuccessful and even

impotent, yet to insurance companies, to physicians and to a brainwashed public

we are " Licensed " or " certified " Acupuncturists--just like " licensed " or

" certified " massage therapists or physical therapists.

 

As far as I am concerned this status quo is absurd, and though I

understand it is a reality which has evolved from the political realities and

the lobbying protectionism of the MDS and the Chiropractors, the extra year or

so of required courses enabling us to REALLY be doctors would level the playing

field.

 

The DAOM is all we have available now and I am grateful for it, but

because I am a Jewish Sabbath observer and the programs I have spoken to

(Emperor's and PCOM) are not able to accommodate my religious observance, I am

stuck as an L.Ac. G-d forbid I should ever refer to myself as a doctor. I

would be breaking the law! So I must be content to wait...and operate a cash

practice.

 

Respectfully,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.(for now)

 

<alonmarcus wrote:

If this was to come with regional accreditation i would feel ok about

it. As is its all political

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

-

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:47 PM

Re: Tong's points specific order response by Dr. Snow

 

 

Alon,

I've heard through the grapevine that the DAOM may become a

required degree in California within five years. Almost certainly,

to teach in California schools, it will be necessary. I am not too

happy to be in my 50's with a more than full time practice plus

teaching position to think about going back to school again.

 

On May 17, 2006, at 1:40 PM, wrote:

 

> The OMD is as useless and new DAOM, neither one is regionally

> accredited and outside our little world is not recognized as

> anything more than a paper mill.

> The OMD degree was what the available degree at that time. I think

> the world was a little different than most of the new graduate

> understand. My DOM is the same type of useless paper so i am not

> trying to just dis others.

>

>