Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM accredited DAOM programs: 1. Bastyr (Seattle) 2. OCOM (Portland) 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) 6. PCOM (San Diego) The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. Anybody know anything else? Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD program at South Baylo is not accredited. The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. Valerie Hobbs On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM > accredited DAOM programs: > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > 2. OCOM (Portland) > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with > Messenger with Voice. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi all, My penny's worth. I think the title of DOM is a strange one. To imply that you are a doctor of Oriental medicine means you know Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc medicines, when in actual fact you barely know one. Personally, I don't like using the title Dr before my name. Even though I have a Bachelor of Medicine (both WM and TCM) degree from Beijing Uni I'll settle for Doctor of Chinese medicine. I think that's fair and a true reflection. Kind regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM, MATCM +44 (0) 208 367 8378 enquiries www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Valerie Hobbs 18 May 2006 14:02 Chinese Medicine Re: schools offering DAOM NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD program at South Baylo is not accredited. The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. Valerie Hobbs On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM > accredited DAOM programs: > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > 2. OCOM (Portland) > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with > Messenger with Voice. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Yehuda, I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego) There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac _______________ It’s the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail beta http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I don't think that ACAOM is accredited to accredit the DAOM program yet. Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Yehuda, > > I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego) > There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > _______________ > It's the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail beta > http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hi Mike, I know that Will was working with Samra, but he moved to Texas to head a school there. Will, are you listening? What's the story? I don't think that one can equate the scope and intent of a DAOM with that of a PHD, which is essentially a research degree. I am a clinician, not a researcher, and seek excellence in the trenches. Speaking of PHD's there is also Kathy White's program in WLA. Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac. mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: Yehuda, I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego) There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac _______________ It’s the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail beta http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 True. Actually no agencies have been accepted by US Department of Education to accredit DAOM or OMD yet. acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote: I don't think that ACAOM is accredited to accredit the DAOM program yet. Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Yehuda, > > I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego) > There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > _______________ > It's the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail beta > http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Attilio Can you practice WM in UK? Oakland, CA 94609 - Attilio D'Alberto Chinese Medicine Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:10 AM RE: schools offering DAOM Hi all, My penny's worth. I think the title of DOM is a strange one. To imply that you are a doctor of Oriental medicine means you know Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc medicines, when in actual fact you barely know one. Personally, I don't like using the title Dr before my name. Even though I have a Bachelor of Medicine (both WM and TCM) degree from Beijing Uni I'll settle for Doctor of Chinese medicine. I think that's fair and a true reflection. Kind regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM, MATCM +44 (0) 208 367 8378 enquiries www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Valerie Hobbs 18 May 2006 14:02 Chinese Medicine Re: schools offering DAOM NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD program at South Baylo is not accredited. The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. Valerie Hobbs On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM > accredited DAOM programs: > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > 2. OCOM (Portland) > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with > Messenger with Voice. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Educational accreditation is a private and voluntary process, and while neither ACAOM nor NOMAA are recognized by the US Dept of Education to accredit doctorate programs, and both of them are operating within legal bounds qualified to accredit programs that meet their standards. ACAOM is recognized by the USDE to accredit masters programs, not its DAOM programs. NOMAA is in the process of seeking recognition by the USDE for accreditation of OMD programs. Regarding integration of education, I cannot wait until the time comes when public educational institutions, such as the University of California, offer programs in AOM. Not only will it allow direct access by AOM students to a first rate competitive and transferable education, but it will cut tuition in half. Brian Fennen Valerie Hobbs wrote: >NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an >accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD >program at South Baylo is not accredited. > >The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move >through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation >status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. > >Valerie Hobbs > > >On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > > > >>For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM >>accredited DAOM programs: >> >> 1. Bastyr (Seattle) >> 2. OCOM (Portland) >> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) >> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) >> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) >> 6. PCOM (San Diego) >> >> The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but >>they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival >>accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. >> >> Anybody know anything else? >> >> >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Amen Brian. That is the only way we will ever have a high quality education Oakland, CA 94609 - Brian C Fennen Chinese Medicine Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:00 PM Re: schools offering DAOM Educational accreditation is a private and voluntary process, and while neither ACAOM nor NOMAA are recognized by the US Dept of Education to accredit doctorate programs, and both of them are operating within legal bounds qualified to accredit programs that meet their standards. ACAOM is recognized by the USDE to accredit masters programs, not its DAOM programs. NOMAA is in the process of seeking recognition by the USDE for accreditation of OMD programs. Regarding integration of education, I cannot wait until the time comes when public educational institutions, such as the University of California, offer programs in AOM. Not only will it allow direct access by AOM students to a first rate competitive and transferable education, but it will cut tuition in half. Brian Fennen Valerie Hobbs wrote: >NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an >accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD >program at South Baylo is not accredited. > >The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move >through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation >status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. > >Valerie Hobbs > > >On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > > > >>For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM >>accredited DAOM programs: >> >> 1. Bastyr (Seattle) >> 2. OCOM (Portland) >> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) >> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) >> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) >> 6. PCOM (San Diego) >> >> The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but >>they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival >>accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. >> >> Anybody know anything else? >> >> >> > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Hi there, I agree with Attilio, I think the title DOM is a bit odd. To get to where I am required 5 years of study and a double degree, and the course that I studied was intended to be the same as the training received in China in WM / CM only in english, and included a one year internship there. One of my fellow students told me that our course was deemed acceptable in China, but that you had to sit an exam there in Chinese, she was staying on to learn Chinese so that she could do that, which in China would make her a western doctor as well. I use the title Dr. but always qualify after my name that it is (), as that makes me more comfortable with it, and is also the law. In Australia you have to be careful not to be seen as holding forth as a medical doctor, which is of course illegal. Also, the state that I live in now has a government registration board, so it is encouraged to a certain extent to use the term doctor, the same way that Chiropractors and Osteopaths do, to put us on the same level as them. Acupuncturists do not tend to use the term doctor, as they are practicing a single modality, not the full spectrum, and in this state, cannot claim to be a chinese herbal practitioner. In the state of Queensland, which I have previously practiced in, they have no government registration board, and also have very archaic laws governing holding forth as a doctor. In fact, it is still illegal on the books, for anyone but a medical doctor or an actor playing a doctor, to use a stethoscope, as this would give the impression to a gullible public that you are a doctor. (This is for the most part ignored, but I did not use the title doctor, even though I could have, as I did not feel like being a test case for protection of title.) I still feel slightly uncomfortable with the Doctor in front of my name sometimes, but it seems to be the done thing here in Victoria now, and I think we are all doing it to a certain extent, to stick it to the Chiros. I have also discovered that now Australia is taking on a US model of western medical training with a graduate entry program into Medicine, which means you can have an MBBS in 4 years. (Which you'll remember is less time than it takes to become a pracitioner). Im thinking of sitting the entrance exam and seeing if I get in. I'd love to be able to practice both WM and CM. (It also explains why one of my fellow students in Chinese medicine, who was a western doctor as well, got her humerus and femur mixed up, they just dont have time to study anatomy anymore. My partner, who had to get a very old-school human biology degree (3 years of wet labs and pro-sections) to then go on to study , is digusted by the fact that he knows far more anatomy and physiology than most doctors. Well, thats my 2 cents worth. Regards, Dr. Lea Starck () Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote: > > Hi all, > > My penny's worth. > > I think the title of DOM is a strange one. To imply that you are a doctor of > Oriental medicine means you know Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc medicines, > when in actual fact you barely know one. > > Personally, I don't like using the title Dr before my name. Even though I > have a Bachelor of Medicine (both WM and TCM) degree from Beijing Uni I'll > settle for Doctor of Chinese medicine. I think that's fair and a true > reflection. > > Kind regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > BSc (Hons) TCM, MATCM > +44 (0) 208 367 8378 > enquiries > www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Valerie > Hobbs > 18 May 2006 14:02 > Chinese Medicine > Re: schools offering DAOM > > > > NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an > accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD > program at South Baylo is not accredited. > > The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move > through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation > status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. > > Valerie Hobbs > > > On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > > > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only > ACAOM > > accredited DAOM programs: > > > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > > 2. OCOM (Portland) > > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, > but > > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival > > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. > > > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with > > Messenger with Voice. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 This may already be happening at the University of Maryland, Baltimore. If not yet, seeds are being planted. Somehow I think the school 30 miles south (TAI in Columbia, MD) knows a bit more about Acupuncture. I do see your point about the acceptance of such a degree in a traditional institution. I know TAI is getting or has gotten middle states accreditation, which is a pretty big deal. Anne Brian C Fennen wrote: >Educational accreditation is a private and voluntary process, and while >neither ACAOM nor NOMAA are recognized by the US Dept of Education to >accredit doctorate programs, and both of them are operating within legal >bounds qualified to accredit programs that meet their standards. > >ACAOM is recognized by the USDE to accredit masters programs, not its >DAOM programs. NOMAA is in the process of seeking recognition by the >USDE for accreditation of OMD programs. > >Regarding integration of education, I cannot wait until the time comes >when public educational institutions, such as the University of >California, offer programs in AOM. Not only will it allow direct access >by AOM students to a first rate competitive and transferable education, >but it will cut tuition in half. > >Brian Fennen > > >Valerie Hobbs wrote: > > > >>NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an >>accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD >>program at South Baylo is not accredited. >> >>The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move >>through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation >>status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. >> >>Valerie Hobbs >> >> >>On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only ACAOM >>>accredited DAOM programs: >>> >>> 1. Bastyr (Seattle) >>> 2. OCOM (Portland) >>> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) >>> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) >>> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) >>> 6. PCOM (San Diego) >>> >>> The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, but >>>they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival >>>accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. >>> >>> Anybody know anything else? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 The anatomy bit is not true in us. All MDs in US get a full year of anatomy, although many believe its not enough. I can tell you anatomical knowledge of most LAc in US is pathetic or worse Oakland, CA 94609 - leabun1 Chinese Medicine Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:34 PM Re: schools offering DAOM Hi there, I agree with Attilio, I think the title DOM is a bit odd. To get to where I am required 5 years of study and a double degree, and the course that I studied was intended to be the same as the training received in China in WM / CM only in english, and included a one year internship there. One of my fellow students told me that our course was deemed acceptable in China, but that you had to sit an exam there in Chinese, she was staying on to learn Chinese so that she could do that, which in China would make her a western doctor as well. I use the title Dr. but always qualify after my name that it is (), as that makes me more comfortable with it, and is also the law. In Australia you have to be careful not to be seen as holding forth as a medical doctor, which is of course illegal. Also, the state that I live in now has a government registration board, so it is encouraged to a certain extent to use the term doctor, the same way that Chiropractors and Osteopaths do, to put us on the same level as them. Acupuncturists do not tend to use the term doctor, as they are practicing a single modality, not the full spectrum, and in this state, cannot claim to be a chinese herbal practitioner. In the state of Queensland, which I have previously practiced in, they have no government registration board, and also have very archaic laws governing holding forth as a doctor. In fact, it is still illegal on the books, for anyone but a medical doctor or an actor playing a doctor, to use a stethoscope, as this would give the impression to a gullible public that you are a doctor. (This is for the most part ignored, but I did not use the title doctor, even though I could have, as I did not feel like being a test case for protection of title.) I still feel slightly uncomfortable with the Doctor in front of my name sometimes, but it seems to be the done thing here in Victoria now, and I think we are all doing it to a certain extent, to stick it to the Chiros. I have also discovered that now Australia is taking on a US model of western medical training with a graduate entry program into Medicine, which means you can have an MBBS in 4 years. (Which you'll remember is less time than it takes to become a pracitioner). Im thinking of sitting the entrance exam and seeing if I get in. I'd love to be able to practice both WM and CM. (It also explains why one of my fellow students in Chinese medicine, who was a western doctor as well, got her humerus and femur mixed up, they just dont have time to study anatomy anymore. My partner, who had to get a very old-school human biology degree (3 years of wet labs and pro-sections) to then go on to study , is digusted by the fact that he knows far more anatomy and physiology than most doctors. Well, thats my 2 cents worth. Regards, Dr. Lea Starck () Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote: > > Hi all, > > My penny's worth. > > I think the title of DOM is a strange one. To imply that you are a doctor of > Oriental medicine means you know Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc medicines, > when in actual fact you barely know one. > > Personally, I don't like using the title Dr before my name. Even though I > have a Bachelor of Medicine (both WM and TCM) degree from Beijing Uni I'll > settle for Doctor of Chinese medicine. I think that's fair and a true > reflection. > > Kind regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > BSc (Hons) TCM, MATCM > +44 (0) 208 367 8378 > enquiries > www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Valerie > Hobbs > 18 May 2006 14:02 > Chinese Medicine > Re: schools offering DAOM > > > > NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be an > accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The OMD > program at South Baylo is not accredited. > > The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes time to move > through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for accreditation > status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. > > Valerie Hobbs > > > On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " < wrote: > > > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are the only > ACAOM > > accredited DAOM programs: > > > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > > 2. OCOM (Portland) > > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM accreditation, > but > > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new rival > > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and company. > > > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with > > Messenger with Voice. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Yehuda, I agree with you on what a clinical doctorate is as opposed to what a PhD is but our profession has not followed the norms in this either. When a DAOM student is defending a thesis something is amiss. Is the DAOM a true clinical degree, a research one or some combination? By the way, I think that Ms. White is still in charge at AUCM in LA. That was the program that I was referring to. On another note, it appears that AUCM has added Kiiko Matsumoto to Jeffrey Yuen as faculty. I can see that Kiiko is very clinically oriented in all that she does and second on the theory. What a quagmire. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : : Thu, 18 May 2006 13:40:30 -0700RE: schools offering DAOMHi Mike, I know that Will was working with Samra, but he moved to Texas to head a school there. Will, are you listening? What's the story? I don't think that one can equate the scope and intent of a DAOM with that of a PHD, which is essentially a research degree. I am a clinician, not a researcher, and seek excellence in the trenches. Speaking of PHD's there is also Kathy White's program in WLA. Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: Yehuda,I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego)There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac_______________It’s the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail betahttp://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us[Non-tex\ t portions of this message have been removed]Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Links Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Well, not all people who learn acupuncture in this country have very good anatomy either. Thats why it helps tremendously to have a government registration board that sets some standards. Of course, you cant legislate against stupidity either. Im thinking of one of my teachers who also taught a masters of acupuncture course group, who had a student who was also a chiro (and they learn pretty good anatomy, although they seem to be really into their gross anatomy dissections, which I dont think is as useful as working with prosections) and this guy needled one of the upper bladder meridian points to a depth of a cun and a half on a skinny girl. The teacher was horrified. (Just to digress somewhat, of course, chiropractors are exempt from having to register with the chinese medicine registration board if they want to practice acupuncture. They'd have a fit if we started doing chiro manipulations, though.) And just to lighten the mood a bit, I know a lady who had a male patient who told her that his " ovaries are a bit sore today. " regards, Lea. Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus DOM " <alonmarcus wrote: > > The anatomy bit is not true in us. All MDs in US get a full year of anatomy, although many believe its not enough. I can tell you anatomical knowledge of most LAc in US is pathetic or worse > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > leabun1 > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:34 PM > Re: schools offering DAOM > > > Hi there, > I agree with Attilio, I think the title DOM is a bit odd. > To get to where I am required 5 years of study and a double degree, > and the course that I studied was intended to be the same as the > training received in China in WM / CM only in english, and included > a one year internship there. One of my fellow students told me that > our course was deemed acceptable in China, but that you had to sit > an exam there in Chinese, she was staying on to learn Chinese so > that she could do that, which in China would make her a western > doctor as well. > I use the title Dr. but always qualify after my name that it is > (), as that makes me more comfortable with it, and > is also the law. In Australia you have to be careful not to be seen > as holding forth as a medical doctor, which is of course illegal. > Also, the state that I live in now has a government registration > board, so it is encouraged to a certain extent to use the term > doctor, the same way that Chiropractors and Osteopaths do, to put us > on the same level as them. Acupuncturists do not tend to use the > term doctor, as they are practicing a single modality, not the full > spectrum, and in this state, cannot claim to be a chinese herbal > practitioner. > In the state of Queensland, which I have previously practiced in, > they have no government registration board, and also have very > archaic laws governing holding forth as a doctor. In fact, it is > still illegal on the books, for anyone but a medical doctor or an > actor playing a doctor, to use a stethoscope, as this would give the > impression to a gullible public that you are a doctor. (This is for > the most part ignored, but I did not use the title doctor, even > though I could have, as I did not feel like being a test case for > protection of title.) > I still feel slightly uncomfortable with the Doctor in front of my > name sometimes, but it seems to be the done thing here in Victoria > now, and I think we are all doing it to a certain extent, to stick > it to the Chiros. > I have also discovered that now Australia is taking on a US model of > western medical training with a graduate entry program into > Medicine, which means you can have an MBBS in 4 years. (Which you'll > remember is less time than it takes to become a > pracitioner). Im thinking of sitting the entrance exam and seeing if > I get in. I'd love to be able to practice both WM and CM. (It also > explains why one of my fellow students in Chinese medicine, who was > a western doctor as well, got her humerus and femur mixed up, they > just dont have time to study anatomy anymore. My partner, who had to > get a very old-school human biology degree (3 years of wet labs and > pro-sections) to then go on to study , is digusted > by the fact that he knows far more anatomy and physiology than most > doctors. > Well, thats my 2 cents worth. > Regards, > Dr. Lea Starck () > > Chinese Medicine , " Attilio > D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > My penny's worth. > > > > I think the title of DOM is a strange one. To imply that you are a > doctor of > > Oriental medicine means you know Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc > medicines, > > when in actual fact you barely know one. > > > > Personally, I don't like using the title Dr before my name. Even > though I > > have a Bachelor of Medicine (both WM and TCM) degree from Beijing > Uni I'll > > settle for Doctor of Chinese medicine. I think that's fair and a > true > > reflection. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > BSc (Hons) TCM, MATCM > > +44 (0) 208 367 8378 > > enquiries@ > > www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > Valerie > > Hobbs > > 18 May 2006 14:02 > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: schools offering DAOM > > > > > > > > NOMAA does not yet have approval from the Dept of Education to be > an > > accrediting body (they have a hearing before the DoE in June). The > OMD > > program at South Baylo is not accredited. > > > > The six programs you listed are not fully accredited; it takes > time to move > > through DoE process. OCOM and Bastyr are in candidacy for > accreditation > > status, and the others will follow as quickly as regs allow. > > > > Valerie Hobbs > > > > > > On 5/18/06 2:59 AM, " yehuda frischman " <@> wrote: > > > > > For the record, to the best of my knowledge, the following are > the only > > ACAOM > > > accredited DAOM programs: > > > > > > 1. Bastyr (Seattle) > > > 2. OCOM (Portland) > > > 3. ACTCM (San Francisco) > > > 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz) > > > 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica) > > > 6. PCOM (San Diego) > > > > > > The word I have heard is that South Baylo also has ACAOM > accreditation, > > but > > > they choose instead to offer an OMD offered by the NOMAA, a new > rival > > > accrediting group, led by Ted Priebe and Deke Kendall and > company. > > > > > > Anybody know anything else? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min > with > > > Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 A thesis is something a Master's degree student defends, not a doctorate degree. A PhD defends a dissertation. The DAOM is indeed in-between. We really are not defending a dissertation, we defend our Capstone Research product. It is not held to as high a standard as the dissertation, but it must be publishable. Hope this info helps. Always Respectfully, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM - mike Bowser Friday, May 19, 2006 10:58 AM Chinese Medicine RE: schools offering DAOM Yehuda, I agree with you on what a clinical doctorate is as opposed to what a PhD is but our profession has not followed the norms in this either. When a DAOM student is defending a thesis something is amiss. Is the DAOM a true clinical degree, a research one or some combination? By the way, I think that Ms. White is still in charge at AUCM in LA. That was the program that I was referring to. On another note, it appears that AUCM has added Kiiko Matsumoto to Jeffrey Yuen as faculty. I can see that Kiiko is very clinically oriented in all that she does and second on the theory. What a quagmire. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : : Thu, 18 May 2006 13:40:30 -0700RE: schools offering DAOMHi Mike, I know that Will was working with Samra, but he moved to Texas to head a school there. Will, are you listening? What's the story? I don't think that one can equate the scope and intent of a DAOM with that of a PHD, which is essentially a research degree. I am a clinician, not a researcher, and seek excellence in the trenches. Speaking of PHD's there is also Kathy White's program in WLA. Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac.mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: Yehuda,I agree with your list of (ACAOM) DAOM programs:> > 1. Bastyr (Seattle)> 2. OCOM (Portland)> 3. ACTCM (San Francisco)> 4. 5 Branches (Santa Cruz)> 5. Emperor's (Santa Monica)> 6. PCOM (San Diego)There will soon be another one at Samra as Will Morris has mentioned that he helped them get this together. South Baylo originally posted that their program was ACAOM approved but have since removed that. It appears that they are only going after the OMD from NOMAA and not the DAOM. In addition, I would add that AUCM in LA has a PhD in Classical that is offered in distance format or classroom. There is another LA school, SCU-SOMA that was advertising a PhD with a Chinese college and some work was done here and some in China. That seems to rap in up as far as I know. There is such variability within each of these. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac_______________ItÃÔ the future of Hotmail: Try Windows Live Mail betahttp://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us[Non-tex\ t portions of this message have been removed]Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Links Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, http://groups and adjust accordingly Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 leabun1 wrote: <snip> > (Just to digress somewhat, of course, chiropractors are exempt from > having to register with the chinese medicine registration board if > they want to practice acupuncture. They'd have a fit if we started > doing chiro manipulations, though.) Hi Lea! In this same vein, imagine if after the newly required pharmacology courses (or a 200 hour CEU) that we were to demand the right to prescribe (or unprescribe) western drugs? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Lea Actually knowing anatomy allows you to needle much more aggressively. Being horrified just might be because of lack of good anatomy Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 The teacher who was teaching the course was Dr. XueJian Liu, who was originally trained in Beijing as a western and chinese doctor, and practiced for many years there and in the countryside, before coming to Australia via former Yugoslavia. He is an excellent doctor, and studied himself under some excellent and very famous doctors, and I feel very priviledged to have benefited from his vast experience and expertise, as he was one of my teachers also. One of his biggest challenges when coming to Australia was moderating his needling style for Aussie patients as he needled too aggressively and the patients didnt like it. (How fondly I remember him demonstrating through-needling on me (neiguan to weiguan), and enquiring if I had any pain. When I said " yes " in a somewhat choked voice. He laughed and said " Aahh, very good! " ) The same man had me be the guinea pig to demonstrate needling of Bladder one and Ren 22. The reason he was horrified was because he believed the patient was in substantial risk of a pneuomothorax from the depth and direction that the chiro / acupuncture student was needling. Lea. Chinese Medicine , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > Lea > Actually knowing anatomy allows you to needle much more aggressively. Being horrified just might be because of lack of good anatomy > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I have heard of many similar situations where a chiro w/ the 100 hr training possibly caused a pneumothorax and then had the audacity to say that the chest pain and difficult breathing were normal. These types of situations are why we need to start cataloguing practitioner training with each and every negative event. No doubt somewhere along the way, regulatory agencies will look back at this info (if not properly showing training) and say we need more gross anat when, in fact, it would be they who are in need of training. We cannot let their ego dictate such disregard for patient safety. Just my rant. MB : leabun1: Sun, 21 May 2006 02:48:40 +0000Re: schools offering DAOMThe teacher who was teaching the course was Dr. XueJian Liu, who was originally trained in Beijing as a western and chinese doctor, and practiced for many years there and in the countryside, before coming to Australia via former Yugoslavia. He is an excellent doctor, and studied himself under some excellent and very famous doctors, and I feel very priviledged to have benefited from his vast experience and expertise, as he was one of my teachers also. One of his biggest challenges when coming to Australia was moderating his needling style for Aussie patients as he needled too aggressively and the patients didnt like it. (How fondly I remember him demonstrating through-needling on me (neiguan to weiguan), and enquiring if I had any pain. When I said " yes " in a somewhat choked voice. He laughed and said " Aahh, very good! " ) The same man had me be the guinea pig to demonstrate needling of Bladder one and Ren 22. The reason he was horrified was because he believed the patient was in substantial risk of a pneuomothorax from the depth and direction that the chiro / acupuncture student was needling.Lea.Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus DOM " <alonmarcus wrote:>> Lea> Actually knowing anatomy allows you to needle much more aggressively. Being horrified just might be because of lack of good anatomy> > > > > Oakland, CA 94609> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Mike Do we know that DCs have a higher rate of pneumo? Oakland, CA 94609 - mike Bowser Chinese Medicine Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:24 AM RE: Re: schools offering DAOM I have heard of many similar situations where a chiro w/ the 100 hr training possibly caused a pneumothorax and then had the audacity to say that the chest pain and difficult breathing were normal. These types of situations are why we need to start cataloguing practitioner training with each and every negative event. No doubt somewhere along the way, regulatory agencies will look back at this info (if not properly showing training) and say we need more gross anat when, in fact, it would be they who are in need of training. We cannot let their ego dictate such disregard for patient safety. Just my rant. MB : leabun1: Sun, 21 May 2006 02:48:40 +0000Re: TCM - schools offering DAOMThe teacher who was teaching the course was Dr. XueJian Liu, who was originally trained in Beijing as a western and chinese doctor, and practiced for many years there and in the countryside, before coming to Australia via former Yugoslavia. He is an excellent doctor, and studied himself under some excellent and very famous doctors, and I feel very priviledged to have benefited from his vast experience and expertise, as he was one of my teachers also. One of his biggest challenges when coming to Australia was moderating his needling style for Aussie patients as he needled too aggressively and the patients didnt like it. (How fondly I remember him demonstrating through-needling on me (neiguan to weiguan), and enquiring if I had any pain. When I said " yes " in a somewhat choked voice. He laughed and said " Aahh, very good! " ) The same man had me be the guinea pig to demonstrate needling of Bladder one and Ren 22. The reason he was horrified was because he believed the patient was in substantial risk of a pneuomothorax from the depth and direction that the chiro / acupuncture student was needling.Lea.--- In Chinese Medicine , " " <alonmarcus wrote:>> Lea> Actually knowing anatomy allows you to needle much more aggressively. Being horrified just might be because of lack of good anatomy> > > > > Oakland, CA 94609> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Chinese Medicine Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http ://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145To change your email delivery settings, click, and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author.Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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