Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Hi folks - I have a patient, 79 yo man, in very good health generally. He's very active, gardens, hauls wood, spends time on a trampoline. Pulses are pretty good, esp for his age, eg no real deficiency, sometimes stronger on the right, tho that is transitory. He spent 3 nights in the hospital in Sept (went in for 'chest pains', ended up being no problem with his heart) w/an automatic BP cuff on 24/7. Since then, he's had pain in his right elbow, says it feels like hitting his funny bone all the time. I've been able to get relief for about 12 hours after a treatment. Pain usually kicks back in just before he goes to bed. Have tried some of Dr Tan's methods, also needles in TH 10, TH11 and TH 3, which seems to have more affect. Have also looked at his spine, C7/T1 may be out of alignment, and I've referred him to a chiropractor. Hua to around that joint also helps some. If it is out, it's not causing any other problems like headaches, diffulty/pain/tension in shoulders, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Hi Karen, That would make sense as the dermatome that innervates the elbow is C7. Have you needled du14? Karen Adams <tryfan wrote: Hi folks - I have a patient, 79 yo man, in very good health generally. He's very active, gardens, hauls wood, spends time on a trampoline. Pulses are pretty good, esp for his age, eg no real deficiency, sometimes stronger on the right, tho that is transitory. He spent 3 nights in the hospital in Sept (went in for 'chest pains', ended up being no problem with his heart) w/an automatic BP cuff on 24/7. Since then, he's had pain in his right elbow, says it feels like hitting his funny bone all the time. I've been able to get relief for about 12 hours after a treatment. Pain usually kicks back in just before he goes to bed. Have tried some of Dr Tan's methods, also needles in TH 10, TH11 and TH 3, which seems to have more affect. Have also looked at his spine, C7/T1 may be out of alignment, and I've referred him to a chiropractor. Hua to around that joint also helps some. If it is out, it's not causing any other problems like headaches, diffulty/pain/tension in shoulders, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks Karen Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 yep, also ear seeds (following needling) in cervical back and elbow. Karen yehuda frischman wrote: >Hi Karen, > > That would make sense as the dermatome that innervates the elbow is C7. Have you needled du14? > >Karen Adams <tryfan wrote: > Hi folks - I have a patient, 79 yo man, in very good health generally. >He's very active, gardens, hauls wood, spends time on a trampoline. >Pulses are pretty good, esp for his age, eg no real deficiency, >sometimes stronger on the right, tho that is transitory. > >He spent 3 nights in the hospital in Sept (went in for 'chest pains', >ended up being no problem with his heart) w/an automatic BP cuff on >24/7. Since then, he's had pain in his right elbow, says it feels >like hitting his funny bone all the time. I've been able to get >relief for about 12 hours after a treatment. Pain usually kicks back >in just before he goes to bed. Have tried some of Dr Tan's methods, >also needles in TH 10, TH11 and TH 3, which seems to have more affect. > >Have also looked at his spine, C7/T1 may be out of alignment, and I've >referred him to a chiropractor. Hua to around that joint also helps >some. If it is out, it's not causing any other problems like >headaches, diffulty/pain/tension in shoulders, etc. > >Any thoughts? > >Thanks >Karen > > > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 HI Karen, Try suffusing the course of all the channels/currrents in the arm and shoulder with moxa. Apply liberally and for more than 2 minutes in order to tonify. If the pain is from excess apply moxa in the natural direction of flow and if it's from deficiency apply in the opposite direction from that of the natural flow. Try needle moxa on the point on the lateral side of the elbow which corresponds to SI 8. Try auricular acupuncture points for arm and shoulder. Tonify Liver Blood and Qi. Try threading SJ 15 and LI 15 to LI 14, LI 11 to HT 3 and LI 4 to SI 3 and use needle moxa on all. JOE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 this sounds comprehensive, but I don't understand what you mean by suffusing. karen Joseph Balensi wrote: >HI Karen, > >Try suffusing the course of all the channels/currrents in the arm and >shoulder with moxa. Apply liberally and for more than 2 minutes in order to >tonify. If the pain is from excess apply moxa in the natural direction of >flow and if it's from deficiency apply in the opposite direction from that >of the natural flow. Try needle moxa on the point on the lateral side of the >elbow which corresponds to SI 8. Try auricular acupuncture points for arm >and shoulder. Tonify Liver Blood and Qi. Try threading SJ 15 and LI 15 to >LI 14, LI 11 to HT 3 and LI 4 to SI 3 and use needle moxa on all. > >JOE > > > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Karen, The fact that C7 and T1 are out of alignment IMHO is very significant. Rather than using a chiropractor who will align the vertebrae, I would highly recommend a CranioSacral therapist who will release the fascia as well as possibly adhesions and calcifications that may have developed from inflammation. Needling should be much more effective then. One other idea, is to consider cross-needling--finding ah shi points on the opposite knee. Again good luck, Yehuda karen <tryfan wrote: yep, also ear seeds (following needling) in cervical back and elbow. Karen yehuda frischman wrote: >Hi Karen, > > That would make sense as the dermatome that innervates the elbow is C7. Have you needled du14? > >Karen Adams <tryfan wrote: > Hi folks - I have a patient, 79 yo man, in very good health generally. >He's very active, gardens, hauls wood, spends time on a trampoline. >Pulses are pretty good, esp for his age, eg no real deficiency, >sometimes stronger on the right, tho that is transitory. > >He spent 3 nights in the hospital in Sept (went in for 'chest pains', >ended up being no problem with his heart) w/an automatic BP cuff on >24/7. Since then, he's had pain in his right elbow, says it feels >like hitting his funny bone all the time. I've been able to get >relief for about 12 hours after a treatment. Pain usually kicks back >in just before he goes to bed. Have tried some of Dr Tan's methods, >also needles in TH 10, TH11 and TH 3, which seems to have more affect. > >Have also looked at his spine, C7/T1 may be out of alignment, and I've >referred him to a chiropractor. Hua to around that joint also helps >some. If it is out, it's not causing any other problems like >headaches, diffulty/pain/tension in shoulders, etc. > >Any thoughts? > >Thanks >Karen > > > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Yehuda - I absolutely agree with you, and hadn't thought about craniosacral which sounds like a good idea. Have tried cross needling... karen yehuda frischman wrote: >Karen, > > The fact that C7 and T1 are out of alignment IMHO is very significant. Rather than using a chiropractor who will align the vertebrae, I would highly recommend a CranioSacral therapist who will release the fascia as well as possibly adhesions and calcifications that may have developed from inflammation. Needling should be much more effective then. One other idea, is to consider cross-needling--finding ah shi points on the opposite knee. > > Again good luck, > > Yehuda > >karen <tryfan wrote: > yep, also ear seeds (following needling) in cervical back and elbow. >Karen > >yehuda frischman wrote: > > > >>Hi Karen, >> >> That would make sense as the dermatome that innervates the elbow is C7. Have you needled du14? >> >>Karen Adams <tryfan wrote: >> Hi folks - I have a patient, 79 yo man, in very good health generally. >>He's very active, gardens, hauls wood, spends time on a trampoline. >>Pulses are pretty good, esp for his age, eg no real deficiency, >>sometimes stronger on the right, tho that is transitory. >> >>He spent 3 nights in the hospital in Sept (went in for 'chest pains', >>ended up being no problem with his heart) w/an automatic BP cuff on >>24/7. Since then, he's had pain in his right elbow, says it feels >>like hitting his funny bone all the time. I've been able to get >>relief for about 12 hours after a treatment. Pain usually kicks back >>in just before he goes to bed. Have tried some of Dr Tan's methods, >>also needles in TH 10, TH11 and TH 3, which seems to have more affect. >> >>Have also looked at his spine, C7/T1 may be out of alignment, and I've >>referred him to a chiropractor. Hua to around that joint also helps >>some. If it is out, it's not causing any other problems like >>headaches, diffulty/pain/tension in shoulders, etc. >> >>Any thoughts? >> >>Thanks >>Karen >> >> >> >> >> >>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com >> >>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 >> >> and adjust accordingly. >> >> >> >>Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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