'Dependent' patients (hell and suffering)

[Guest guest]

At 01:11 AM 5/2/2006, wrote:

>

>...There is a talmudic saying which will illustrate a point that I

>want to make: " The best physicians go to hell " . Usually this is

>understood that the quality of arrogance with can accompany someone

>who is really good can cause him to be complacent, and bring about

>unnecessary harm or even death. However, a different reading of it

>is that the very best doctors are those who are prepared to enter

>the " hell " that their patients suffer, in order to bring them out! ...

 

Can you say what the word for " hell " is, I presume in Hebrew;

anything about the word root meaning, related words, etc. (Something

like the way Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat dV analyze Chinese terms).?

 

Understanding these concepts across cultures, I find, helps further

investigate the relationship between pain and suffering, etc.

 

For example an interesting tidbit: a common translation of the

Christian notion of " hell " into Chinese is to use the character di,

i.e. the character tu (earth/ground) with the 3-stroke module added

to the right. The same di as in " Earth School " , or in tian-ren-di /

heaven-human-earth.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Chris,

 

The hebrew term " Gehinom " which is usually translated as hell in English, in

Traditional Jewish literature and scholarship refers to a temporary period of

" cleansing " after death, where the soul is purged (in a not too pleasant, yet

necessary manner) of impurity which has polluted it during one's lifetime (think

of a self-cleaning oven as an analogy). After this cleansing process is

completed, one may then enjoy the fruits of paradise--an eternal existance where

one basks in the radiance of the divine presence . Now, that being said, please

understand that I acknowledge that this is not the appropriate forum for

theological discussions, and therefore, those of you who might be offended,

please forgive me. Rather, Chris, consider this as simply a response to your

question, to emphasize that in Talmudic literature, it is brought down that

endured suffering in this world atones for and cleanses one of iniquities

commited. So highly is the physician viewed in Jewish

tradition, that the suffering sustained by the patient which is then relieved

by the selfless sacrifice of the dedicated physician, still brings about the

same atonement of sin. The word " gehinom " is actually a contraction of two

word: " ge " meaning a ravine or a wadi or gully, and " hinom " an actual location

south of Jerusalem where historically a rather vile form of idolatry was

practiced, and so the term that is used is a cliche to connote a cursed place

one would want to avoid.

 

Yehuda

 

< wrote:

At 01:11 AM 5/2/2006, wrote:

>

>...There is a talmudic saying which will illustrate a point that I

>want to make: " The best physicians go to hell " . Usually this is

>understood that the quality of arrogance with can accompany someone

>who is really good can cause him to be complacent, and bring about

>unnecessary harm or even death. However, a different reading of it

>is that the very best doctors are those who are prepared to enter

>the " hell " that their patients suffer, in order to bring them out! ...

 

Can you say what the word for " hell " is, I presume in Hebrew;

anything about the word root meaning, related words, etc. (Something

like the way Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat dV analyze Chinese terms).?

 

Understanding these concepts across cultures, I find, helps further

investigate the relationship between pain and suffering, etc.

 

For example an interesting tidbit: a common translation of the

Christian notion of " hell " into Chinese is to use the character di,

i.e. the character tu (earth/ground) with the 3-stroke module added

to the right. The same di as in " Earth School " , or in tian-ren-di /

heaven-human-earth.

 

 

 

 

 

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and adjust

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[Guest guest]

Just to add. This suffering that endures in gehinom is non-physical, and the

place itself is not a literal place " in the ground " is might be assumed.

 

< wrote: At 01:11 AM 5/2/2006, yehuda frischman

< wrote:

>

>...There is a talmudic saying which will illustrate a point that I

>want to make: " The best physicians go to hell " . Usually this is

>understood that the quality of arrogance with can accompany someone

>who is really good can cause him to be complacent, and bring about

>unnecessary harm or even death. However, a different reading of it

>is that the very best doctors are those who are prepared to enter

>the " hell " that their patients suffer, in order to bring them out! ...

 

Can you say what the word for " hell " is, I presume in Hebrew;

anything about the word root meaning, related words, etc. (Something

like the way Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat dV analyze Chinese terms).?

 

Understanding these concepts across cultures, I find, helps further

investigate the relationship between pain and suffering, etc.

 

For example an interesting tidbit: a common translation of the

Christian notion of " hell " into Chinese is to use the character di,

i.e. the character tu (earth/ground) with the 3-stroke module added

to the right. The same di as in " Earth School " , or in tian-ren-di /

heaven-human-earth.

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This thread has nothing to do with TCM and is more to do with religion.

There is no need to continue with this thread.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

+44 (0) 208 367 8378

enquiries

www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/>

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of yehuda

frischman

03 May 2006 04:05

Chinese Medicine

Re: 'Dependent' patients (hell and suffering)

 

 

 

Dear Chris,

 

The hebrew term " Gehinom " which is usually translated as hell in English,

in Traditional Jewish literature and scholarship refers to a temporary

period of " cleansing " after death, where the soul is purged (in a not too

pleasant, yet necessary manner) of impurity which has polluted it during

one's lifetime (think of a self-cleaning oven as an analogy). After this

cleansing process is completed, one may then enjoy the fruits of

paradise--an eternal existance where one basks in the radiance of the divine

presence . Now, that being said, please understand that I acknowledge that

this is not the appropriate forum for theological discussions, and

therefore, those of you who might be offended, please forgive me. Rather,

Chris, consider this as simply a response to your question, to emphasize

that in Talmudic literature, it is brought down that endured suffering in

this world atones for and cleanses one of iniquities commited. So highly is

the physician viewed in Jewish

tradition, that the suffering sustained by the patient which is then

relieved by the selfless sacrifice of the dedicated physician, still brings

about the same atonement of sin. The word " gehinom " is actually a

contraction of two word: " ge " meaning a ravine or a wadi or gully, and

" hinom " an actual location south of Jerusalem where historically a rather

vile form of idolatry was practiced, and so the term that is used is a

cliche to connote a cursed place one would want to avoid.

 

Yehuda

 

< wrote:

At 01:11 AM 5/2/2006, wrote:

>

>...There is a talmudic saying which will illustrate a point that I

>want to make: " The best physicians go to hell " . Usually this is

>understood that the quality of arrogance with can accompany someone

>who is really good can cause him to be complacent, and bring about

>unnecessary harm or even death. However, a different reading of it

>is that the very best doctors are those who are prepared to enter

>the " hell " that their patients suffer, in order to bring them out! ...

 

Can you say what the word for " hell " is, I presume in Hebrew;

anything about the word root meaning, related words, etc. (Something

like the way Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat dV analyze Chinese terms).?

 

Understanding these concepts across cultures, I find, helps further

investigate the relationship between pain and suffering, etc.

 

For example an interesting tidbit: a common translation of the

Christian notion of " hell " into Chinese is to use the character di,

i.e. the character tu (earth/ground) with the 3-stroke module added

to the right. The same di as in " Earth School " , or in tian-ren-di /

heaven-human-earth.

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chris,

 

Your message relates to religious content, which falls outside the scope of

this group. Please continue this thread off list.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

+44 (0) 208 367 8378

enquiries

www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/>

 

----Original Message-----

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Chris

Macie

02 May 2006 22:08

Chinese Medicine

Re: 'Dependent' patients (hell and suffering)

 

 

 

At 01:11 AM 5/2/2006, wrote:

>

>...There is a talmudic saying which will illustrate a point that I

>want to make: " The best physicians go to hell " . Usually this is

>understood that the quality of arrogance with can accompany someone

>who is really good can cause him to be complacent, and bring about

>unnecessary harm or even death. However, a different reading of it

>is that the very best doctors are those who are prepared to enter

>the " hell " that their patients suffer, in order to bring them out! ...

 

Can you say what the word for " hell " is, I presume in Hebrew;

anything about the word root meaning, related words, etc. (Something

like the way Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat dV analyze Chinese terms).?

 

Understanding these concepts across cultures, I find, helps further

investigate the relationship between pain and suffering, etc.

 

For example an interesting tidbit: a common translation of the

Christian notion of " hell " into Chinese is to use the character di,

i.e. the character tu (earth/ground) with the 3-stroke module added

to the right. The same di as in " Earth School " , or in tian-ren-di /

heaven-human-earth.

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.