Integration of CM/WM

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

 

I have been watching this thread with interest and would like to add a few

thoughts.

 

I have spent close to four years in China studying CM since 1998, and am

currently a PhD student at Zhejiang University of CM in Hangzhou, so I have

a lot of exposure to what is going on here. One of those years was spent

with Chen Ke-Ji and his colleagues in Beijing at China Academy of CM, Xi

Yuan Hospital, where some of the pioneering work on what is called Zhong-Xi

Jie He, Chinese-Western Integrated Medicine, was done and continues to be

done. In all fairness to Chen Ke-Ji and those involved in this stage of

development of CM, I feel I should chime in.

 

In no way do these people feel that integration is the only way to go

forward with CM. They do feel it is an important and maybe even necessary

direction to go, but they would never consider dismissing the foundations of

CM in favor of a pure allopathic/ " modern " application of CM modalities. In

the clinic, they use both, and they have to- they are primary care

physicians and treat conditions of all levels of severity. To not use WM

would be irresponsible and ridiculous for many of these patients. Prof. Chen

is a cardiologist, so he routinely puts people on anti-hypertensives, etc.,

but then he gives them herbs. His formulas are a combination of classical

ideas with some modern ideas thrown in, often things based on research he or

his copious number of students have done themselves, such as the research

Z'ev mentioned on Dan Shen (they have researched the hell out of Dan Shen).

His results are excellent. To think for a moment that Prof Chen doesn't know

or would dismiss classical knowledge, is unfair. He knows the classics well,

(he routinely prescribes Zhi Gan Cao Tang :-) ) and as I mentioned in an

earlier post, has done a lot of research on them.

 

I am not suggesting that there are NO people here in favor of dismissing

classical foundations for pure modernization. There may be, but I have never

met one. I have met a lot of people who are in favor of modern research, and

integration of CM and WM, but they are all quite aware that they are

different paradigms and on the most fundamental level will have to remain

that way. In other words, when it comes down to it, in the clinic, one can

apply the logic of both methods to seeing patients, but they will never

become one system of logic. There will still always be CM evaluation,

diagnosis, and treatment strategy, and WM evaluation, diagnosis, and

treatment strategy. Then treatments can be integrated according to ideas

from both systems. I think this is a rational and intelligent approach.

 

To think that CM doctors here know less about the classics than the average

westerner practicing CM, and/or are abandoning them in favor of

" modernization " is absurd. For example, my professor has every word of Shang

Han Lun memorized, not to mention a fair amount of Nei Jing, Jin Gui, and

various other classics, but he also knows WM really well, knows how to

integrate the two in the clinic, and does modern research on clinical

application of Shang Han formulas. His clinical work is extremely classical-

his formulas are largely based on Shang Han Lun- and he is really effective

using those. If I can ever attain his level of competence, I would be

extremely happy, not to mention surprised. Find a Westerner that is of his

caliber and I will quit and go study with her/him instead.

 

Likewise, to think that the political climate here forces people to practice

" Communist " CM is absurd. Granted, the undergraduate education in the CM

schools here is standardized and slanted in a lot of ways towards WM. This

is an acknowledged problem here. Still, they study more classical material

than is taught in schools in the West. But once in practice, doctors here

are free to practice as they like, as long as they practice responsibly

(there are laws regulating practice of medicine here just as anywhere in the

world). If one wants to practice straight WM, one can. If one wants to

practice pure CM, one can. There is no one standing over your shoulder

telling you where to place needles, or how to prescribe herbs. Someone was

recently telling me about an old doctor who only needles " open " points on

all patients. Not sure how " classical " that is, but it's certainly not an

idea from the Party. The communists did not burn or ban classical CM texts.

You are free to purchase a recent reprint of a Song dynasty copy of Shang

Han Lun, etc. People are studying and applying the knowledge from these

books in clinic all the time, and it is not going to die out in favor of

" modernization " .

 

I am not suggesting that the state of CM in China is in any way ideal- there

are problems. For example, the University system cannot train CM doctors the

way that a traditional apprenticeship did. There is less hands-on training,

and so graduates are not good at pulse diagnosis and a lot of other skills.

But if motivated, they can go work and study hard and find good teachers and

learn these skills. Not everyone will be able to, but some will and the

practices will persist. But everyone is aware of these problems and some are

actively thinking of ways to solve them.

 

Anyway, not to rant, but just thought I'd add a bit of my own experience and

perspective.

 

Best wishes,

 

Greg

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree with Greg: the classics are still widely studied in China,

much more than in the West. I too met many doctors who based their

formulas on the classics. Some of these doctors hardly modified

anything as they thought the formulas were already so well-formulated.

I see modern research as a necessity to determine the clinical value

of specific treatments for specific diseases.

But there are also journals that are solely devoted to studying the

classics:

 

e.g.

KNOWLEDGE OF ANCIENT MEDICAL LITERATURE

2005 Vol.22 No.4

 

 

--

 

English contents (less than half of the article titles translated)

 

Chinese Medical Cultures

 

Harmony in Philosophy and Harmony in Traditional & #12288;

& #12288;

& #12288;ZHANG Wei-hang & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(4)

 

 

Appreciation of Medical Records

 

Appreciation of Dr He Gongdan's Medical Recipes & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;LIN

Qian-liang & #12288;

<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(8)

 

 

Medical Field in Literature

 

Medical Stories in Feng Menglong's Two Books & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;GONG

Shu-ming & #12288;

<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(10)

 

 

Pleasures in Regimen

 

History of Washing Hand & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;FU

Wei-kang & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(12)

Brief Introduction to Folkways and Health and Longevity Concepts in

Folkways & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;WEN Chang-lu & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(14)

Hygiene of Diet and Defecation in Ancient Times & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;SUN

Wen-zhong & #12288;

<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(17)

 

 

Cultural Exposition

 

History of Aromatic Fumigation & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;JIN

Zhi-jun & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(18)

 

 

A Graceful Charm in Oriental Poetry

 

Commemoration of Sixtieth Anniversary Anti-Japanese Triumph & #12288;

& #12288; & #12288;

ZHANG Can-jia & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(23)

A Superior Complex About Two " Southern Poems " & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;ZHANG

Jian-zhong & #12288;

<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(24)

 

 

TCM Exploration in Japan

 

Background and Contents on Japan-Korea Medical Exchange in Sang Han Bi

Yu & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;LIANG Yong-xuan & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(26)

Education of Jianghu Medical Museum & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;DING-QUAN Shou

lang,WANG

Tie-ce & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(29)

 

 

Explanation of Meaning and Puzzles

 

On the Annotation of Zhang Jiebin's Categorized Classic of Medicine & #12288;

& #12288; & #12288;ZHANG Zhong-li & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(32)

Brief Introduction to the " Jing " in Traditional Chinese Medical

Theories & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;ZHU Min-zhuo & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(34)

 

 

Study of Chinese Medical Literature

 

On Postscripts of LIU Shu's TANG Ye Jing & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;LI

Ding & #12288;<Partly

contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(37)

On the Category of Traditional Chinese Medical Terms & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;MAO

Xiao & #12288;

<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(39)

Articles Collection of Huang Di Nei Jing Su Wen Ji Zhu from Jin Kui

Yao Lue & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;FAN Yi-pin & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(42)

 

 

Clasics Drawing Library

 

Preliminary Investigation of Incomplete Manuscripts of Hui Hui Yi Yao

& #12288; & #12288; & #12288;WANG Xing-yi & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(44)

 

 

Other

 

Summary of National Eighth Chinese Medical Culture Synposium & #12288;

& #12288; & #12288;WEN

Shao & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(46)

 

 

 

 

and another journal :

 

& #20013; & #37291; & #25991; & #29563; & #38620; & #24535;

JOURNAL OF TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICINAL LITERATURE

2005 Vol.23 No.4

 

 

--

 

English CONTENTS ((less than half of the article titles translated))

 

General Comment of Literature Research about Treatise on Cold -

induced Diseases and Synopsis of the Golden Chamber & #12288;

& #12288; & #12288;Zhang Canjia

& #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(1)

Collection and Collation Records of Tong Jun collecting Materia Medica

& #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Ma Jixing & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(4)

Textual Contrast and Research between Plain Questions and Fundamentals

of Huangdi's Internal Classic & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Duan Yishan & #12288;<Partly

contents> & #12288;

<PDF file> & #12288;(9)

Research on Development Character of Visceral Syndrome Differentiation

in Ming and Qing Dynasty & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Yang

Xuemei & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(14)

Discrimination and Question About Book Title and Author and Colophon

of Some Plague Monographs in Qing Dynasty & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Li

He & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;

<PDF file> & #12288;(18)

Primary Research on Edition Spread of The Scholars' Care of Their

Parents & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Xiao Guogang & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF

file> & #12288;(22)

Brain in T.C.M. Literature Comment on Internal Structure of Brain & #12288;

& #12288;

& #12288;Jin Bing & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(28)

From " Only Living One's Own Mental Life " to " Being a Good Doctor " & #12288;

& #12288;

& #12288;Li Defeng & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(30)

Knowledge on Tumor Naming & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Yan

Hongfei & #12288;

<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(34)

Relation between Habitus and Tumor Remedy & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Xu

Liaoyu & #12288;<Partly

contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(40)

Clinical Experience Using Theories of Internal Classic No. 2 & #12288;

& #12288; & #12288;

Wang Qingqi & #12288;<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(45)

Predominant Knowledge and Master's Style & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Zheng

XueJun & #12288;

<Abstract> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(48)

Six Clinical Cases of Professor Zhu Ruiqun & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Chen

Li & #12288;<Abstract> & #12288;

<PDF file> & #12288;(50)

The Clinical Experience of Shi Yinyu Combined Using Acupuncture and

Remedying Osteoarthropathy & #12288; & #12288; & #12288;Shen

Weidong & #12288;

<Partly contents> & #12288;<PDF file> & #12288;(52)

 

 

 

Most of the journals coming out of China have a mixture of articles:

some are pharmacological research, some are clinical observations of

treatment of Western medical diseases by Chinese medical methods, some

articles are about one person's rich clinical experience, some are

Chinese medical literature reviews and almost always there is also an

article or two that comments on classical literature.

 

 

 

I know Chinese doctors that roll their eyes if you mention

electro-acupuncture or modern usage of certain herbs (like jiao gu lan

for high cholesterol) but at least these modalities are supported by

research, while classical medicine has not undergone that kind of

objective testing. Due to its subjectiveness and macrocosmic views,

finding out what the limits of Chinese medicine are is not an easy

endeavor. but I feel that we owe it to ourselves and our patients to

seek that out.

 

Thanks to the forum, I'm learning every day!

 

Tom.