Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio

 

> The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is something I've been

> thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the crux of the problem

> TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based research. No one has

> come up with the solution of including a TCM pattern analysis into the

> RCT model. The problem is that there are many different schools of

> thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to the same problem and

> these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT framework. I was thinking

> about using the statistically significant model on the pattern analysis

> as well after asking a committee of 10 leading pattern analysis

> experts. What do others think to this? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto

 

Good idea, IMO.

 

Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts? Would they construct a matrix

something like that below?

 

Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx

protocol

 

P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8 P9 P10

Pinyin

Name of

Pattern

Hanzi

Script for

Pattern

English

Name of

Pattern

Main S & Ss

Aversions

Tongue body

Tongue Fur

Pulse

Face

Other

Formula

recommended

Modifications

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

 

Well firstly, the number of experts needed depends upon the number needed to

get a statically significant outcome. It may take 10 it may take more or

less. 10 was just an example number I selected. We need a statistician to

advise the number needed.

 

After we have found the number of experts needed, we need to determine if

the experts should be selected from just one school of thought or have one

from each of the different schools of thought. Of course, it would suit

everyone if we had one expert chosen from each different school of TCM, but

statically this may produce too many variables and not equate to a

significant result. If that is the case then we would need to select them

from just one school of TCM, which would be a real pain-in-the-arse.

 

The experts would have to be selected from our peers. They should be leading

members of the TCM community worldwide and be actively involved in research

with a number of published articles.

 

Your main categories to formulate a pattern analysis is a good start. I

can't add to it, but will rather let the chosen TCM experts battle that out.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 208 367 8378

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Phil

Rogers

21 March 2006 12:48

Chinese Medicine

Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

 

 

 

Hi Attilio

 

> The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is something I've been

> thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the crux of the problem

> TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based research. No one has

> come up with the solution of including a TCM pattern analysis into the

> RCT model. The problem is that there are many different schools of

> thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to the same problem and

> these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT framework. I was thinking

> about using the statistically significant model on the pattern analysis

> as well after asking a committee of 10 leading pattern analysis

> experts. What do others think to this? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto

 

Good idea, IMO.

 

Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts? Would they construct a

matrix

something like that below?

 

Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx

protocol

 

P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8

P9 P10

Pinyin

Name of

Pattern

Hanzi

Script for

Pattern

English

Name of

Pattern

Main S & Ss

Aversions

Tongue body

Tongue Fur

Pulse

Face

Other

Formula

recommended

Modifications

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Attilio,

 

There is much concern over the meaning of the term TCM that I think needs to

be addressed. In what context does it have meaning for this group? As we

are seeing more and more schools of thought develop and become more popular,

is it fair to continue to say that it encompasses all of CM? I have tried

to make it consistant by using to refer to a post-1949 style that

encompasses much western medical thought. Others might not like this, so I

am proposing a dialogue to provide us with some clarity on this important

issue and how we define ourselves.

 

Thanks

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:01:50 -0000

>

>Hi Phil,

>

>Well firstly, the number of experts needed depends upon the number needed

>to

>get a statically significant outcome. It may take 10 it may take more or

>less. 10 was just an example number I selected. We need a statistician to

>advise the number needed.

>

>After we have found the number of experts needed, we need to determine if

>the experts should be selected from just one school of thought or have one

>from each of the different schools of thought. Of course, it would suit

>everyone if we had one expert chosen from each different school of TCM, but

>statically this may produce too many variables and not equate to a

>significant result. If that is the case then we would need to select them

>from just one school of TCM, which would be a real pain-in-the-arse.

>

>The experts would have to be selected from our peers. They should be

>leading

>members of the TCM community worldwide and be actively involved in research

>with a number of published articles.

>

>Your main categories to formulate a pattern analysis is a good start. I

>can't add to it, but will rather let the chosen TCM experts battle that

>out.

>

>Warm regards,

>

>Attilio D'Alberto

>Doctor of (Beijing, China)

>B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

>Editor

> Times

>+44 (0) 208 367 8378

>enquiries

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Phil

>Rogers

>21 March 2006 12:48

>Chinese Medicine

>Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

>

>

>

>Hi Attilio

>

> > The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is something I've been

> > thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the crux of the problem

> > TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based research. No one has

> > come up with the solution of including a TCM pattern analysis into the

> > RCT model. The problem is that there are many different schools of

> > thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to the same problem and

> > these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT framework. I was thinking

> > about using the statistically significant model on the pattern analysis

> > as well after asking a committee of 10 leading pattern analysis

> > experts. What do others think to this? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto

>

>Good idea, IMO.

>

>Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts? Would they construct a

>matrix

>something like that below?

>

>Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx

>protocol

>

> P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7

>P8

>P9 P10

>Pinyin

>Name of

>Pattern

>Hanzi

>Script for

>Pattern

>English

>Name of

>Pattern

>Main S & Ss

>Aversions

>Tongue body

>Tongue Fur

>Pulse

>Face

>Other

>Formula

>recommended

>Modifications

>

>Best regards,

>Phil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The RCT is not a good evaluator for TCM/OM for many reasons. Ted Kaptchuk

wrote about this recently and proposals are being looked at for a better

model.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " " <

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

> Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:47:48 -0000

>

>Hi Attilio

>

> > The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is something I've been

> > thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the crux of the problem

> > TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based research. No one has

> > come up with the solution of including a TCM pattern analysis into the

> > RCT model. The problem is that there are many different schools of

> > thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to the same problem and

> > these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT framework. I was thinking

> > about using the statistically significant model on the pattern analysis

> > as well after asking a committee of 10 leading pattern analysis

> > experts. What do others think to this? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto

>

>Good idea, IMO.

>

>Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts? Would they construct a

>matrix

>something like that below?

>

>Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx

>protocol

>

> P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8 P9 P10

>Pinyin

>Name of

>Pattern

>Hanzi

>Script for

>Pattern

>English

>Name of

>Pattern

>Main S & Ss

>Aversions

>Tongue body

>Tongue Fur

>Pulse

>Face

>Other

>Formula

>recommended

>Modifications

>

>Best regards,

>Phil

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning Attilio.

This approach would be a first step in setting up a

useful citeria so we could begin to make some

comparisons across practitioners and diagnosis s/s.

It may lead to some better ways of explaining what we

do to not only our patients but to the other

healthcare oractitioners we deal with. What can I do

to support you in achieving this? Reenah

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi Attilio

>

> > The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is

> something I've been

> > thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the

> crux of the problem

> > TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based

> research. No one has

> > come up with the solution of including a TCM

> pattern analysis into the

> > RCT model. The problem is that there are many

> different schools of

> > thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to

> the same problem and

> > these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT

> framework. I was thinking

> > about using the statistically significant model on

> the pattern analysis

> > as well after asking a committee of 10 leading

> pattern analysis

> > experts. What do others think to this? Warm

> regards, Attilio D'Alberto

>

> Good idea, IMO.

>

> Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts?

> Would they construct a matrix

> something like that below?

>

> Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM

> Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx protocol

>

> P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8 P9 P10

> Pinyin

> Name of

> Pattern

> Hanzi

> Script for

> Pattern

> English

> Name of

> Pattern

> Main S & Ss

> Aversions

> Tongue body

> Tongue Fur

> Pulse

> Face

> Other

> Formula

> recommended

> Modifications

>

> Best regards,

> Phil

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

Dr. Reenah McGill

Licensed Acupuncturist & Biofeedback Specialist

Healing Energy Center Modern Technology and Ancient Wisdom

323.668.0278 ph 323.668.2206 fax

visit http://WWW.healingenergycenter.com and signup for your FREE ezine of

health news and information to improve your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Reenah,

 

Contact me off list if your interested in working on this. Anyone else can

contact me off list as well.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 208 367 8378

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Reenah

Mcgill

21 March 2006 20:00

Chinese Medicine

Re: Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

 

 

 

Good morning Attilio.

This approach would be a first step in setting up a

useful citeria so we could begin to make some

comparisons across practitioners and diagnosis s/s.

It may lead to some better ways of explaining what we

do to not only our patients but to the other

healthcare oractitioners we deal with. What can I do

to support you in achieving this? Reenah

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi Attilio

>

> > The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is

> something I've been

> > thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the

> crux of the problem

> > TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based

> research. No one has

> > come up with the solution of including a TCM

> pattern analysis into the

> > RCT model. The problem is that there are many

> different schools of

> > thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to

> the same problem and

> > these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT

> framework. I was thinking

> > about using the statistically significant model on

> the pattern analysis

> > as well after asking a committee of 10 leading

> pattern analysis

> > experts. What do others think to this? Warm

> regards, Attilio D'Alberto

>

> Good idea, IMO.

>

> Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts?

> Would they construct a matrix

> something like that below?

>

> Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM

> Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx protocol

>

> P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7

P8 P9 P10

> Pinyin

> Name of

> Pattern

> Hanzi

> Script for

> Pattern

> English

> Name of

> Pattern

> Main S & Ss

> Aversions

> Tongue body

> Tongue Fur

> Pulse

> Face

> Other

> Formula

> recommended

> Modifications

>

> Best regards,

> Phil

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

Dr. Reenah McGill

Licensed Acupuncturist & Biofeedback Specialist

Healing Energy Center Modern Technology and Ancient Wisdom

323.668.0278 ph 323.668.2206 fax

visit http://WWW.healingenergycenter.com and signup for your FREE ezine of

health news and information to improve your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

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[Guest guest]

This topic was discussed in depth sometime ago. I have no desire to run over

it again at present. Please check the archives for previous discussions on

this topic.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

+44 (0) 208 367 8378

enquiries

www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/>

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

21 March 2006 17:25

Chinese Medicine

RE: Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

 

 

 

Attilio,

 

There is much concern over the meaning of the term TCM that I think needs to

 

be addressed. In what context does it have meaning for this group? As we

are seeing more and more schools of thought develop and become more popular,

 

is it fair to continue to say that it encompasses all of CM? I have tried

to make it consistant by using to refer to a post-1949 style that

encompasses much western medical thought. Others might not like this, so I

am proposing a dialogue to provide us with some clarity on this important

issue and how we define ourselves.

 

Thanks

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:01:50 -0000

>

>Hi Phil,

>

>Well firstly, the number of experts needed depends upon the number needed

>to

>get a statically significant outcome. It may take 10 it may take more or

>less. 10 was just an example number I selected. We need a statistician to

>advise the number needed.

>

>After we have found the number of experts needed, we need to determine if

>the experts should be selected from just one school of thought or have one

>from each of the different schools of thought. Of course, it would suit

>everyone if we had one expert chosen from each different school of TCM, but

>statically this may produce too many variables and not equate to a

>significant result. If that is the case then we would need to select them

>from just one school of TCM, which would be a real pain-in-the-arse.

>

>The experts would have to be selected from our peers. They should be

>leading

>members of the TCM community worldwide and be actively involved in research

>with a number of published articles.

>

>Your main categories to formulate a pattern analysis is a good start. I

>can't add to it, but will rather let the chosen TCM experts battle that

>out.

>

>Warm regards,

>

>Attilio D'Alberto

>Doctor of (Beijing, China)

>B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M.

>Editor

> Times

>+44 (0) 208 367 8378

>enquiries

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Phil

>Rogers

>21 March 2006 12:48

>Chinese Medicine

>Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns

>

>

>

>Hi Attilio

>

> > The inclusion of a pattern analysis into RCTs is something I've been

> > thinking and talking about for sometime. It is the crux of the problem

> > TCM faces in getting evaluated as evidence based research. No one has

> > come up with the solution of including a TCM pattern analysis into the

> > RCT model. The problem is that there are many different schools of

> > thought within TCM, many different diagnosis to the same problem and

> > these cannot be expressed within a strict RCT framework. I was thinking

> > about using the statistically significant model on the pattern analysis

> > as well after asking a committee of 10 leading pattern analysis

> > experts. What do others think to this? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto

>

>Good idea, IMO.

>

>Who are the 10 leading pattern analysis experts? Would they construct a

>matrix

>something like that below?

>

>Main characteristics of the 10 most common TCM Patterns and a pre-agreed Tx

>protocol

>

> P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7

>P8

>P9 P10

>Pinyin

>Name of

>Pattern

>Hanzi

>Script for

>Pattern

>English

>Name of

>Pattern

>Main S & Ss

>Aversions

>Tongue body

>Tongue Fur

>Pulse

>Face

>Other

>Formula

>recommended

>Modifications

>

>Best regards,

>Phil

>

>

>