Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Dear Sue, Hang on in there! I too am involved with running a Masters degree in Acupuncture (Coventry University, UK) and we also teach " Evidence based practice " modules alongside the acupuncture modules. If we don't understand the way research of this kind is done, we will never be able to change it. I agree that there is a lot of poor quality Western acupuncture research, but there is also a lot of equally poor quality Chinese research into acupuncture. If we believe that pattern recognition and TCM differentiation would make the quality of investigation much better then it is up to us, the acupuncturists, to find ways to incorporate it into our protocols. It's not impossible but it is difficult. We would hope to inspire our students to make that attempt. Most of our students are health professionals, working in the NHS system in the UK. To practice at all, it is necessary to be able to justify the practice of acupuncture or any other " alternative therapy " by reference to the evidence base. Our students must understand the past, both in TCM terms and in research community terms, in order to be able to shape the future. I have never understood the polarising arguments seen on this or on other acupuncture sites. Neither side of the debate has " the Truth " but we both have an obligation to sort out research if we believe in what we do. Val - suecochrane36 Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:22 AM Re: pregnancy tx's I am involved with the Masters of Acupuncture/ at University of Western Sydney and we have received much criticism from colleagues about offering 'Evidence based Practice 1 & 2' as compulsory units. There is much discussion of whether we are taking TCM off-track by such an emphasis on western scientific method. Some of our first graduating students argue that they can now read research reports critically and understand the flaws and biases within the available research. Surely a skill we should value. But I am about to send an email to a student who is considering withdrawing because of this emphasis within the course! Just as well TCM is a diverse church! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I find this an interesting idea and yet problematic. Interesting from the point of view that much of medicine seems to be leaning the direction of so-called evidence based procedures due to HMO's and insurance companies. The one big failure in this movement is that there is no proof that it will lower costs or improve healthcare (please feel free to post studies, prefer any conducted in the states). I am part of a healthcare org that is working to remove the above organizations and promote a state sponsored universal coverage, single payer model. We hear the same catch phrases like " evidenced-based " or " disease management " and yet most physicians are trying to help their patients not take advantage of the system. Our spokesman is an attorney who spends a lot of time investigating, writing and testifying before the state legislators. He would love to find some cost containment info but has come up dry. The second part of this, should be the concern over what constitutes evidence? Or who decides this? If this decision continues to remain in the same hands then it appears to simply be words that will change but care will not improve nor will cost containment (two really big issues). The last part of this should be to ask ourselves what will our role be in this mess, if things continue to erode? I would also like to hear about what is the source of this evidence to be? Is it the commercial, professional journals? How do we deal with potential bias in all of this? It sounds like research might be given more power in the decision making process abroad then it is in America. We tend to favor big business and lobbyists. Can you share more info about what is taught in your courses? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " VAL AACP " <val.hopwoodaacp >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > > The place of research in TCM >Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:04:27 -0000 > >Dear Sue, >Hang on in there! > >I too am involved with running a Masters degree in Acupuncture (Coventry >University, UK) and we also teach " Evidence based practice " modules >alongside the acupuncture modules. >If we don't understand the way research of this kind is done, we will never >be able to change it. >I agree that there is a lot of poor quality Western acupuncture research, >but there is also a lot of equally poor quality Chinese research into >acupuncture. > >If we believe that pattern recognition and TCM differentiation would make >the quality of investigation much better then it is up to us, the >acupuncturists, to find ways to incorporate it into our protocols. It's not >impossible but it is difficult. We would hope to inspire our students to >make that attempt. > >Most of our students are health professionals, working in the NHS system in >the UK. To practice at all, it is necessary to be able to justify the >practice of acupuncture or any other " alternative therapy " by reference to >the evidence base. Our students must understand the past, both in TCM terms >and in research community terms, in order to be able to shape the future. > >I have never understood the polarising arguments seen on this or on other >acupuncture sites. Neither side of the debate has " the Truth " but we both >have an obligation to sort out research if we believe in what we do. >Val > - > suecochrane36 > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:22 AM > Re: pregnancy tx's > > > I am involved with the Masters of Acupuncture/ at > University of Western Sydney and we have received much criticism > from colleagues about offering 'Evidence based Practice 1 & 2' as > compulsory units. There is much discussion of whether we are taking > TCM off-track by such an emphasis on western scientific method. Some > of our first graduating students argue that they can now read > research reports critically and understand the flaws and biases > within the available research. Surely a skill we should value. But > I am about to send an email to a student who is considering > withdrawing because of this emphasis within the course! Just as > well TCM is a diverse church! > Sue > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 mike Bowser wrote: Hi Mike! Recalling Phil's contribution the other day: <http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/latov.pdf> Research has its place, but both Western and TCM use case study and other experience based practices as well and will for the foreseeable future. It would be helpful to have a list of the stuff that is research based and a list of stuff that is empirically established for the time being. If such a list is developed I would be happy to post it on my web site. Regards, Pete > I find this an interesting idea and yet problematic. Interesting > from the point of view that much of medicine seems to be leaning the > direction of so-called evidence based procedures due to HMO's and > insurance companies. <snip> >> Hang on in there! >> >> I too am involved with running a Masters degree in Acupuncture >> (Coventry University, UK) and we also teach " Evidence based >> practice " modules alongside the acupuncture modules. If we don't >> understand the way research of this kind is done, we will never be >> able to change it. I agree that there is a lot of poor quality >> Western acupuncture research <snip> >> I am involved with the Masters of Acupuncture/ at >> University of Western Sydney and we have received much criticism >> from colleagues about offering 'Evidence based Practice 1 & 2' as >> compulsory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Dear Mike I have included below the unit purpose for the Evidence Based Practice units in the UWS Masters course. I don't teach in these particular units but I do notice that student assessments in the more clinically focused units that I do teach in improve substantially as they progress through these EBP units. They are more critical and more articulate about WM and CM research. I have noticed that many students start by saying there is no point to the EBP units (particularly wanting to challenge the value of the concepts in TCM) and many end up concluding that it is important to at least know the language so we can engage in dialogue with the WSM dominated health care system within which or beside which we work. As to an exemplary bit of TCM research, Alan Bensoussan's IBS study is a good example of how research can be helpful and challenge us too (as well as 'sell' TCM ideas to the rest of the world). hope this is helpful regards Sue EBP 1 This unit will provide the student with the opportunity to develop the skills necessary to search, understand and critically appraise scientific literature related to Chinese medicine. Basic research methods will be introduced sufficient to support the student through this unit. This unit will introduce the concept and principles of evidence-based practice applied to Chinese medicine. This unit will cover research developments in Chinese medicine and the integration of western medicine with TCM. EBP 2 This unit will focus on the use of evidence in clinical practice and the integration of Traditional (TCM) and Western medicine in the diagnosis and management of disease. This unit will provide a significant focus on the interpretation and integration of medical diagnostic tests with TCM diagnosis. This unit will build on the skills learned in Evidence Based Practice in 1. Students will gain an understanding of the complexities, practicalities and methodologies for research and evaluation of TCM techniques. The unit will review approaches to the establishment of validity and reliability validation of TCM theory and diagnostic techniques and the use of outcome measures in research and clinical practice. Students will undertake the development of a research proposal. > > Can you share more info about what is taught in your courses? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Amen Oakland, CA 94609 - VAL AACP Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:04 AM The place of research in TCM Dear Sue, Hang on in there! I too am involved with running a Masters degree in Acupuncture (Coventry University, UK) and we also teach " Evidence based practice " modules alongside the acupuncture modules. If we don't understand the way research of this kind is done, we will never be able to change it. I agree that there is a lot of poor quality Western acupuncture research, but there is also a lot of equally poor quality Chinese research into acupuncture. If we believe that pattern recognition and TCM differentiation would make the quality of investigation much better then it is up to us, the acupuncturists, to find ways to incorporate it into our protocols. It's not impossible but it is difficult. We would hope to inspire our students to make that attempt. Most of our students are health professionals, working in the NHS system in the UK. To practice at all, it is necessary to be able to justify the practice of acupuncture or any other " alternative therapy " by reference to the evidence base. Our students must understand the past, both in TCM terms and in research community terms, in order to be able to shape the future. I have never understood the polarising arguments seen on this or on other acupuncture sites. Neither side of the debate has " the Truth " but we both have an obligation to sort out research if we believe in what we do. Val - suecochrane36 Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:22 AM Re: pregnancy tx's I am involved with the Masters of Acupuncture/ at University of Western Sydney and we have received much criticism from colleagues about offering 'Evidence based Practice 1 & 2' as compulsory units. There is much discussion of whether we are taking TCM off-track by such an emphasis on western scientific method. Some of our first graduating students argue that they can now read research reports critically and understand the flaws and biases within the available research. Surely a skill we should value. But I am about to send an email to a student who is considering withdrawing because of this emphasis within the course! Just as well TCM is a diverse church! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks Sue. It sounds like the programs in your country put focus on making TCM a healthcare profession within your healthcare system (integration). In the states, we seem to have issue with making this one a united front and so there is much oppoosition from the many smaller programs that want to make a profit and only focus upon TCM w/o much science. It will take some time but as licensure requirements and degree offerrings (doctorates) become more well-known there will be less attendance to these. Thanks again and keep up the good work there. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " suecochrane36 " <suecochrane >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Re: The place of research in TCM >Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:30:02 -0000 > >Dear Mike > I have included below the unit purpose for the Evidence Based >Practice units in the UWS Masters course. I don't teach in these >particular units but I do notice that student assessments in the >more clinically focused units that I do teach in improve >substantially as they progress through these EBP units. They are >more critical and more articulate about WM and CM research. I have >noticed that many students start by saying there is no point to the >EBP units (particularly wanting to challenge the value of the >concepts in TCM) and many end up concluding that it is important to >at least know the language so we can engage in dialogue with the WSM >dominated health care system within which or beside which we work. > >As to an exemplary bit of TCM research, Alan Bensoussan's IBS study >is a good example of how research can be helpful and challenge us >too (as well as 'sell' TCM ideas to the rest of the world). > >hope this is helpful >regards >Sue > >EBP 1 > >This unit will provide the student with the opportunity to develop >the skills necessary to search, understand and critically appraise >scientific literature related to Chinese medicine. Basic research >methods will be introduced sufficient to support the student through >this unit. This unit will introduce the concept and principles of >evidence-based practice applied to Chinese medicine. This unit will >cover research developments in Chinese medicine and the integration >of western medicine with TCM. > > > >EBP 2 > >This unit will focus on the use of evidence in clinical practice and >the integration of Traditional (TCM) and Western >medicine in the diagnosis and management of disease. This unit will >provide a significant focus on the interpretation and integration of >medical diagnostic tests with TCM diagnosis. This unit will build >on the skills learned in Evidence Based Practice in >1. Students will gain an understanding of the complexities, >practicalities and methodologies for research and evaluation of TCM >techniques. The unit will review approaches to the establishment of >validity and reliability validation of TCM theory and diagnostic >techniques and the use of outcome measures in research and clinical >practice. Students will undertake the development of a research >proposal. > > > > > > Can you share more info about what is taught in your courses? > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.