Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Hi All, I salvaged this from a corrupted WWW page at http://tinyurl.com/m27ru K Streitberger, MD, A Gries, MD, (2005) Acupuncture in diagnosing prehospital unconsciousness. American Journal of Emergency Medicine (2005) 23, 90[u+2013]91. konrad_streitberger- heidelberg.de DEAA Department of Anaesthesiology University of Heidelberg, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. 0735-6757/$ D 2005 Elsevier Inc. http://www.elsevier.com/locate/ajem All rights reserved. doi:10.1016/j.ajem.2003.12.027 To the Editor, Quickly finding the cause of coma is always a challenge in emergency situations. Patients in hysterically induced coma often show a surprising ability to endure painful stimuli. No interpretable response may be obtained by painful maneuvers like supraorbital nerve compression and sternal rubbing. Therefore, sometimes differentiation between psychogenic and organic origin may be quite difficult. We describe a case where acupuncture in contrast to other painful maneuvers seemed to terminate prehospital unconsciousness of the same patient twice at 2 following days. A 19-year-old woman suffered a severe psychological trauma after arriving at the scene of a motor vehicle accident and identifying the fatally injured victim as her own 14- year-old sister. The same day she was admitted to hospital because of a hysterical reaction and repeatedly becoming unconscious. After she was discharged the following day, she again experienced short periods of unconsciousness until she fell into a deep coma, not reacting to any stimulus. The physician-staffed emergency service was notified. It was reported by the relatives that she might have hit her head severely when falling down. Examination showed a deep coma (Glasgow Coma Scale 3) with weak muscle tone and no reaction to strong pain stimulus at the neck. The vital parameters were stable (heart rate of 100 beats per minute, systolic blood pressure 110mm Hg, and oxygen saturation 97%). During examination of the pupillary reflex, a minimal flickering of the eyelids occurred and the eyes were deviated toward the ground. However, even on repeated, strong pain stimulus during transport to the emergency vehicle and while inserting an intravenous cannula, she did not show any further reaction. The emergency physician, an anesthetist who was also trained in acupuncture, inserted an acupuncture needle into the acupoint GV26 (In Chinese: Shuigou or Renzhong), at the philtrum at a distance of one third between the nose and upper lip. Immediately after insertion and strong stimulus by turning the needle, the patient reacted with some very deep breaths and she began to weep. Subsequently, the patient woke up and was completely awake within several minutes. The results of neurological evaluation were normal. For further observation, she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital with the diagnosis of dissociative stupor due to posttraumatic stress reaction. The next day the physician-staffed emergency service was called to this patient again. This time she was found lying unconscious on the street in the vicinity of the psychiatric hospital admission office. Examination showed the same findings as the day before. After acupuncture at GV26 she awoke much quicker this time. Afterward, she was admitted to the department of neurology, where a cranial computed tomography revealed completely normal findings. She was discharged the same day upon her own request. In this case of deep unconsciousness, a psychogenic origin was taken into account because of the history and the minimal eyelid reaction in combination with the bulbus deviation [1]. However, it also had to be considered that the patient might have acquired a cerebral trauma when she hit her head. A Glasgow Coma Scale of 3 is usually an indication for intubation. However, the vital signs were stable and intubation would have represented overtreatment in a case of psychogenic unconsciousness. When the patient suddenly awakened after acupuncture without any neurological deficit and without headache, a cerebral trauma could be excluded. Therefore, acupuncture was not only of therapeutic but also of diagnostic value. Until a patient is awake, other therapeutic options described in the literature such as tetanic stimulation of the nervus ulnaris [2], administration of thiopentone or diazepam [1], or occlusion of the airway are not available or not recommended because of breathlessness [3]. Thus, in comparison to these methods, acupuncture at GV26 might be a more suitable and effective option. In TCM, this acupoint has been successfully applied, particularly in emergencies. Obviously, stimulation of this point might be extremely painful and therefore endogenous catecholamines and blood pressure might be increased. In animal experiments, acupuncture at GV26 was able to reverse cardiovascular depression during anesthesia in dogs [4] and to decrease anesthetic activity in rabbits [5]. To date, no clinical trials have been conducted regarding a specific effect of this acupuncture point. However, this case report shows that acupuncture at GV26 might be worth an attempt in cases of prehospital unconsciousness if a psychogenic cause is suspected or if no other option is available. References [1] Dhadphale M. Eye gaze diagnostic sign in hysterical stupor. Lancet 1980;2:374-5. [2] Hintze U, Runge U, Hachenberg Th, et al. Dissociative stupor as a differential diagnosis of coma following injury [Dissoziativer Stuporeine Differential diagnose des Komas nach Unf7llen]. Ana[u+00a8]sthesiol Intensivmed Notfallmed Schmerzther 1998;33:753-5. [3] Maddock H, Carley S, McClusey A. An unusual case of postoperative coma. Anaesthesia 1999;54:702-3. [4] Lee DC, Clifford DH, Lee MO, et al. Reversal by acupuncture of cardiovascular depression induced with morphine during halothane anaesthesia in dogs. Can Anaesth Soc J 1981;28:129-35. [5] Chang CL, Lee JC, Tseng CC, et al. Decrease of anesthetics activity by electroacupuncture on Jen-Chung point in rabbits. Neurosci Lett 1995;202:93-6. Best regards, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Very interesting article. On a lighter note, I always wondered what youd say to people if using ren 1 on a patient to resuscitate from drowning. Chinese Medicine , " " < wrote: > > Hi All, > > I salvaged this from a corrupted WWW page at http://tinyurl.com/m27ru > > K Streitberger, MD, A Gries, MD, (2005) Acupuncture in diagnosing > prehospital unconsciousness. American Journal of Emergency > Medicine (2005) 23, 90[u+2013]91. konrad_streitberger > heidelberg.de DEAA Department of Anaesthesiology University of > Heidelberg, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. 0735-6757/$ D 2005 Elsevier > Inc. http://www.elsevier.com/locate/ajem All rights reserved. > doi:10.1016/j.ajem.2003.12.027 > > To the Editor, > > Quickly finding the cause of coma is always a challenge in emergency > situations. Patients in hysterically induced coma often show a surprising > ability to endure painful stimuli. No interpretable response may be > obtained by painful maneuvers like supraorbital nerve compression and > sternal rubbing. Therefore, sometimes differentiation between > psychogenic and organic origin may be quite difficult. We describe a > case where acupuncture in contrast to other painful maneuvers seemed > to terminate prehospital unconsciousness of the same patient twice at 2 > following days. A 19-year-old woman suffered a severe psychological > trauma after arriving at the scene of a motor vehicle accident and > identifying the fatally injured victim as her own 14- year-old sister. The > same day she was admitted to hospital because of a hysterical reaction > and repeatedly becoming unconscious. After she was discharged the > following day, she again experienced short periods of unconsciousness > until she fell into a deep coma, not reacting to any stimulus. The > physician-staffed emergency service was notified. It was reported by the > relatives that she might have hit her head severely when falling down. > Examination showed a deep coma (Glasgow Coma Scale 3) with weak > muscle tone and no reaction to strong pain stimulus at the neck. The > vital parameters were stable (heart rate of 100 beats per minute, > systolic blood pressure 110mm Hg, and oxygen saturation 97%). During > examination of the pupillary reflex, a minimal flickering of the eyelids > occurred and the eyes were deviated toward the ground. However, even > on repeated, strong pain stimulus during transport to the emergency > vehicle and while inserting an intravenous cannula, she did not show > any further reaction. The emergency physician, an anesthetist who was > also trained in acupuncture, inserted an acupuncture needle into the > acupoint GV26 (In Chinese: Shuigou or Renzhong), at the philtrum at a > distance of one third between the nose and upper lip. Immediately after > insertion and strong stimulus by turning the needle, the patient reacted > with some very deep breaths and she began to weep. Subsequently, > the patient woke up and was completely awake within several minutes. > The results of neurological evaluation were normal. For further > observation, she was admitted to a psychiatric hospital with the > diagnosis of dissociative stupor due to posttraumatic stress reaction. > The next day the physician-staffed emergency service was called to this > patient again. This time she was found lying unconscious on the street > in the vicinity of the psychiatric hospital admission office. Examination > showed the same findings as the day before. After acupuncture at > GV26 she awoke much quicker this time. Afterward, she was admitted > to the department of neurology, where a cranial computed tomography > revealed completely normal findings. She was discharged the same day > upon her own request. In this case of deep unconsciousness, a > psychogenic origin was taken into account because of the history and > the minimal eyelid reaction in combination with the bulbus deviation [1]. > However, it also had to be considered that the patient might have > acquired a cerebral trauma when she hit her head. A Glasgow Coma > Scale of 3 is usually an indication for intubation. However, the vital signs > were stable and intubation would have represented overtreatment in a > case of psychogenic unconsciousness. When the patient suddenly > awakened after acupuncture without any neurological deficit and without > headache, a cerebral trauma could be excluded. Therefore, > acupuncture was not only of therapeutic but also of diagnostic value. > Until a patient is awake, other therapeutic options described in the > literature such as tetanic stimulation of the nervus ulnaris [2], > administration of thiopentone or diazepam [1], or occlusion of the airway > are not available or not recommended because of breathlessness [3]. > Thus, in comparison to these methods, acupuncture at GV26 might be > a more suitable and effective option. In TCM, this acupoint has been > successfully applied, particularly in emergencies. Obviously, stimulation > of this point might be extremely painful and therefore endogenous > catecholamines and blood pressure might be increased. In animal > experiments, acupuncture at GV26 was able to reverse cardiovascular > depression during anesthesia in dogs [4] and to decrease anesthetic > activity in rabbits [5]. To date, no clinical trials have been conducted > regarding a specific effect of this acupuncture point. However, this case > report shows that acupuncture at GV26 might be worth an attempt in > cases of prehospital unconsciousness if a psychogenic cause is > suspected or if no other option is available. > References > [1] Dhadphale M. Eye gaze diagnostic sign in hysterical stupor. Lancet > 1980;2:374-5. > [2] Hintze U, Runge U, Hachenberg Th, et al. Dissociative stupor as a > differential diagnosis of coma following injury [Dissoziativer Stuporeine > Differential diagnose des Komas nach Unf7llen]. Ana[u+00a8] sthesiol > Intensivmed Notfallmed Schmerzther 1998;33:753-5. > [3] Maddock H, Carley S, McClusey A. An unusual case of > postoperative coma. Anaesthesia 1999;54:702-3. > [4] Lee DC, Clifford DH, Lee MO, et al. Reversal by acupuncture of > cardiovascular depression induced with morphine during halothane > anaesthesia in dogs. Can Anaesth Soc J 1981;28:129-35. > [5] Chang CL, Lee JC, Tseng CC, et al. Decrease of anesthetics activity > by electroacupuncture on Jen-Chung point in rabbits. Neurosci Lett > 1995;202:93-6. > > Best regards, > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 leabun1 wrote: > Very interesting article. On a lighter note, I always wondered what > youd say to people if using ren 1 on a patient to resuscitate from > drowning. Hi Lea! Ren 1 is a very effective point for a lot of things, but I think using it would lead to misunderstanding until TCM becomes more mainstream. I never use it except on myself or another TCM practitioner. If I were married I would use it on my wife if it were indicated. I think western CPR or the even old-time " artificial respiration " some of us old folks learned in the boy scouts would probably do as well for drowning while waiting for the 911 truck. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Hi there, Sorry, that reply was just my sense of humour coming out. I personally dont use ren 1, although I have heard of some students who got really into sun si miaos points and needled that on each other in combination with the others. Also one of my classmates from University, in her first year of practice, got a guy who had discovered there was an acupoint there and seemed to really want it needled, when she declined to needle it, he asked what it was it was used for and she told him " haemorrhoids " among other things, so the next week apparantly he turned up saying he had developed haemorrhoids. I think she needled it in the end. One thing that seems to get a lot of chiropractors sued in this country is manipulation of the coccyx (through the rectum) even when patients consent to it, they end up feeling violated after. Touchy subject, no pun intended. Chinese Medicine , petetheisen <petetheisen wrote: > > leabun1 wrote: > > Very interesting article. On a lighter note, I always wondered what > > youd say to people if using ren 1 on a patient to resuscitate from > > drowning. > > Hi Lea! > > Ren 1 is a very effective point for a lot of things, but I think using > it would lead to misunderstanding until TCM becomes more mainstream. I > never use it except on myself or another TCM practitioner. If I were > married I would use it on my wife if it were indicated. > > I think western CPR or the even old-time " artificial respiration " some > of us old folks learned in the boy scouts would probably do as well for > drowning while waiting for the 911 truck. > > Regards, > > Pete > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I used Ren 1 successfully to revive an infant from drowning. I think in this case you are protected by good samaritin law if you are in USA. Cory Trusty http://chinesetherapeutics.org/catalog/index.php On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, leabun1 wrote: > Hi there, > Sorry, that reply was just my sense of humour coming out. I > personally dont use ren 1, although I have heard of some students > who got really into sun si miaos points and needled that on each > other in combination with the others. Also one of my classmates from > University, in her first year of practice, got a guy who had > discovered there was an acupoint there and seemed to really want it > needled, when she declined to needle it, he asked what it was it was > used for and she told him " haemorrhoids " among other things, so the > next week apparantly he turned up saying he had developed > haemorrhoids. I think she needled it in the end. > One thing that seems to get a lot of chiropractors sued in this > country is manipulation of the coccyx (through the rectum) even > when patients consent to it, they end up feeling violated after. > Touchy subject, no pun intended. > > Chinese Medicine , petetheisen > <petetheisen wrote: > > > > leabun1 wrote: > > > Very interesting article. On a lighter note, I always wondered > what > > > youd say to people if using ren 1 on a patient to resuscitate > from > > > drowning. > > > > Hi Lea! > > > > Ren 1 is a very effective point for a lot of things, but I think > using > > it would lead to misunderstanding until TCM becomes more > mainstream. I > > never use it except on myself or another TCM practitioner. If I > were > > married I would use it on my wife if it were indicated. > > > > I think western CPR or the even old-time " artificial respiration " > some > > of us old folks learned in the boy scouts would probably do as > well for > > drowning while waiting for the 911 truck. > > > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Wow, that must be an amazing story. Im pretty sure that under Australian law, if you are a trained first aider in the western medicine sense, (which you have to be to be a CM practitioner) then it is a breach of your duty of care to use anything else. Of course, if that then failed, then I guess duty of care would dictate that you use all skills at your disposal, as duty of care dictates that once duty of care has been established, you cannot then relinquish that care. Where there is a grey area here, is that as a common citizen, there is no implied duty of care in all situations, it is only if you stop to render assistance, however, medical professionals always have a duty of care to everyone in all situations. So are government registered chinese medicine practitioners then assumed to be medical practitioners? We are for tax purposes (goods and services tax exemption) but otherwise? Sorry, Ill stop now, Im boring myself, even, with all this legalese... Chinese Medicine , cory wrote: > > I used Ren 1 successfully to revive an infant from drowning. I think in > this case you are protected by good samaritin law if you are in USA. > > Cory Trusty > http://chinesetherapeutics.org/catalog/index.php > > On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, leabun1 wrote: > > > Hi there, > > Sorry, that reply was just my sense of humour coming out. I > > personally dont use ren 1, although I have heard of some students > > who got really into sun si miaos points and needled that on each > > other in combination with the others. Also one of my classmates from > > University, in her first year of practice, got a guy who had > > discovered there was an acupoint there and seemed to really want it > > needled, when she declined to needle it, he asked what it was it was > > used for and she told him " haemorrhoids " among other things, so the > > next week apparantly he turned up saying he had developed > > haemorrhoids. I think she needled it in the end. > > One thing that seems to get a lot of chiropractors sued in this > > country is manipulation of the coccyx (through the rectum) even > > when patients consent to it, they end up feeling violated after. > > Touchy subject, no pun intended. > > > > Chinese Medicine , petetheisen > > <petetheisen@> wrote: > > > > > > leabun1 wrote: > > > > Very interesting article. On a lighter note, I always wondered > > what > > > > youd say to people if using ren 1 on a patient to resuscitate > > from > > > > drowning. > > > > > > Hi Lea! > > > > > > Ren 1 is a very effective point for a lot of things, but I think > > using > > > it would lead to misunderstanding until TCM becomes more > > mainstream. I > > > never use it except on myself or another TCM practitioner. If I > > were > > > married I would use it on my wife if it were indicated. > > > > > > I think western CPR or the even old-time " artificial respiration " > > some > > > of us old folks learned in the boy scouts would probably do as > > well for > > > drowning while waiting for the 911 truck. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Chinese Medicine > > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > > > > and > > adjust accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > > necessary. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 leabun1 wrote: > Hi there, > Sorry, that reply was just my sense of humour coming out. I > personally dont use ren 1, although I have heard of some students > who got really into sun si miaos points and needled that on each > other in combination with the others. Also one of my classmates from > University, in her first year of practice, got a guy who had > discovered there was an acupoint there and seemed to really want it > needled, when she declined to needle it, he asked what it was it was > used for and she told him " haemorrhoids " among other things, so the > next week apparantly he turned up saying he had developed > haemorrhoids. I think she needled it in the end. > One thing that seems to get a lot of chiropractors sued in this > country is manipulation of the coccyx (through the rectum) even > when patients consent to it, they end up feeling violated after. > Touchy subject, no pun intended. Hi Lea! There is a school of chiropractic called Logan that teaches a method of chiro called " Logan Basic " . Uses pressure on the bladder channel points in the sacrum area to help move the various spinal bones. It is very effective, but not often used for the same reason we are shy to use Ren and Du 1. She needled it in the end! Great! Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 cory wrote: > I used Ren 1 successfully to revive an infant from drowning. I think in > this case you are protected by good samaritin law if you are in USA. > > Cory Trusty > http://chinesetherapeutics.org/catalog/index.php Hi Cory! Really? What did it do? Was the infant breathing at all when you started? Did you also do mouth-to-mouth or anything else? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, petetheisen wrote: > cory wrote: > > I used Ren 1 successfully to revive an infant from drowning. I think > in > > this case you are protected by good samaritin law if you are in USA. > > > > Cory Trusty > > http://chinesetherapeutics.org/catalog/index.php > > Hi Cory! > > Really? What did it do? It revived her. Was the infant breathing at all when you > started? she was trying to breath without success. her face was red. her eyes were rolling back in her head. >Did you also do mouth-to-mouth or anything else? No. Cory > Regards, > > Pete > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yes, I had a needle, but you know that is a very sensitive point. I think if you had nothing else and were desperate that you could stimulate that point manually with a pinch between 2 finger nails. Cory Trusty http://chinesetherapeutics.org/catalog/index.php On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, petetheisen wrote: > cory wrote: > <snip> > Hi Cory! > > Did you have a needle or did you use something else? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > It revived her. > > > > Was the infant breathing at all when you > > > >>started? > > > > > > she was trying to breath without success. her face was red. her eyes > > were rolling back in her head. > > > > > >>Did you also do mouth-to-mouth or anything else? > > > > > > No. > > > > Cory > > > > > > > >>Regards, > >> > >>Pete > >> > >> > >>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > >>Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >> > >>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > >>http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > >> > >> > >> and > >>adjust accordingly. > >> > >>Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > >>group requires prior permission from the author. > >> > >>Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely > >>necessary. > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 cory wrote: <snip> Hi Cory! Did you have a needle or did you use something else? Regards, Pete > It revived her. > > Was the infant breathing at all when you > >>started? > > > she was trying to breath without success. her face was red. her eyes > were rolling back in her head. > > >>Did you also do mouth-to-mouth or anything else? > > > No. > > Cory > > > >>Regards, >> >>Pete >> >> >>Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at >>Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com >> >>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, >>http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 >> >> >> and >>adjust accordingly. >> >>Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >>group requires prior permission from the author. >> >>Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely >>necessary. >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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