looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western perspective

[Guest guest]

I follow this listserve as someone who uses acupuncture as my primary health

care and as (hopefully) a future student and practitioner of acupuncture. I'm

also an RN who has worked in women's health for over 20 years. I would want to

be sure that a patient who is having post-menopausal bleeding was aware that

this is sometimes a symptom of endometrial cancer, and would encourage her to

see a GYN for possible testing (endometrial biopsy).

 

Likewise, if someone were experiencing bleeding for days after intercourse, a

Pap smear and chlamydia test would be in order. Unfortunately, many women go

years without a Pap smear, while others who are getting gyn care are not being

tested for infections because they don't believe they're at risk.

 

Kol Goodstein, RN

Massachusetts

 

Robert Chu <chusauli wrote:to Hi Carl,

 

I once had a patient who had a friable cervix and bled for days following

intercourse.

 

I needled Sp 6 and Master Tung's points Fu Ke and Liver 2, 3, 6 and it

stopped her bleeding immediately following the acupuncture.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, AHG, PhD

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Carl Henryk Wallmark " <carlhenryk.wallmark

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

> Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause woman 56 years old

>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:27:26 +0100

>

>Hi all!

>

>Many thanks to all of you that have answered my question regarding

>Candida problems!

>

>I have a new question regarding Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause

>woman 56 years old.

>

>This patient went through her menopause (probably) at the age 52-53, and

>during this time her menstruation ceased. A year later several things in

>her life brought on a depression, and at this time, her periods started

>again. When she came to me she had " menstruation " bleeding 2 times per

>month, averaging 2 weeks out of 28 days with bleeding per month. After a

>few weeks treatment she is down to bleeding 5-7 days, just as a normal

>period. This is not good enough however, since these days drains her

>energy considerable and brings on a depression-like state.

>She shows signs of both Kid yin and yang def, with more yin def than

>yang.

>I have used the herb formula Er Xiang Tang with a very good result...

>

>And now to my question: I have tried to stop her bleeding all together,

>with both acupuncture (SP1 moxa, SP8, EX-UE16) and herbs (Ai Ye, Pu

>Huang, E Jiao, Di Yu, Lu Jiao Shuang), since I consider this to be one

>of the problems in her depression-like state. I do however find it very

>difficult to stop the bleeding and have not succeeded so far. Does

>anyone have any suggestions/experience of similar cases?

>

>All answers are appreciated!

>

>BR

>Carl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Stephen:

 

What do you mean, they are 16% accurate? At what? If someone has an

infection, an OB/GYN exam will find it. Apparently the person who started this

thread has no way to rule that out before starting treatment.

 

Do you think it is important to rule out Chlamydial infection?

 

Guy Porter

 

In a message dated 3/15/2006 8:40:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,

stephenmacallan writes:

 

hi,

cervical smears (pap smears) are only 16 % accurate anyway - bit of a waste

of time really

 

stephen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

is it necessary to have a pap annually if the women has had a complete

hysterectomy???

 

 

Kol <fernandkol

Chinese Medicine

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:44:30 -0800 (PST)

looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western perspective

 

 

I follow this listserve as someone who uses acupuncture as my primary health

care and as (hopefully) a future student and practitioner of acupuncture. I'm

also an RN who has worked in women's health for over 20 years. I would want to

be sure that a patient who is having post-menopausal bleeding was aware that

this is sometimes a symptom of endometrial cancer, and would encourage her to

see a GYN for possible testing (endometrial biopsy).

 

Likewise, if someone were experiencing bleeding for days after intercourse, a

Pap smear and chlamydia test would be in order. Unfortunately, many women go

years without a Pap smear, while others who are getting gyn care are not being

tested for infections because they don't believe they're at risk.

 

Kol Goodstein, RN

Massachusetts

 

Robert Chu <chusauli wrote:to Hi Carl,

 

I once had a patient who had a friable cervix and bled for days following

intercourse.

 

I needled Sp 6 and Master Tung's points Fu Ke and Liver 2, 3, 6 and it

stopped her bleeding immediately following the acupuncture.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, AHG, PhD

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Carl Henryk Wallmark " <carlhenryk.wallmark

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

> Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause woman 56 years old

>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:27:26 +0100

>

>Hi all!

>

>Many thanks to all of you that have answered my question regarding

>Candida problems!

>

>I have a new question regarding Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause

>woman 56 years old.

>

>This patient went through her menopause (probably) at the age 52-53, and

>during this time her menstruation ceased. A year later several things in

>her life brought on a depression, and at this time, her periods started

>again. When she came to me she had " menstruation " bleeding 2 times per

>month, averaging 2 weeks out of 28 days with bleeding per month. After a

>few weeks treatment she is down to bleeding 5-7 days, just as a normal

>period. This is not good enough however, since these days drains her

>energy considerable and brings on a depression-like state.

>She shows signs of both Kid yin and yang def, with more yin def than

>yang.

>I have used the herb formula Er Xiang Tang with a very good result...

>

>And now to my question: I have tried to stop her bleeding all together,

>with both acupuncture (SP1 moxa, SP8, EX-UE16) and herbs (Ai Ye, Pu

>Huang, E Jiao, Di Yu, Lu Jiao Shuang), since I consider this to be one

>of the problems in her depression-like state. I do however find it very

>difficult to stop the bleeding and have not succeeded so far. Does

>anyone have any suggestions/experience of similar cases?

>

>All answers are appreciated!

>

>BR

>Carl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi,

cervical smears (pap smears) are only 16 % accurate anyway - bit of a waste

of time really

 

stephen

 

Quoting acuschiff:

 

> is it necessary to have a pap annually if the women has had a complete

> hysterectomy???

>

>

> Kol <fernandkol

> Chinese Medicine

> Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:44:30 -0800 (PST)

> looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western perspective

>

>

> I follow this listserve as someone who uses acupuncture as my primary health

>

> care and as (hopefully) a future student and practitioner of acupuncture. I'm

>

> also an RN who has worked in women's health for over 20 years. I would want

> to

> be sure that a patient who is having post-menopausal bleeding was aware that

>

> this is sometimes a symptom of endometrial cancer, and would encourage her to

>

> see a GYN for possible testing (endometrial biopsy).

>

> Likewise, if someone were experiencing bleeding for days after intercourse,

> a

> Pap smear and chlamydia test would be in order. Unfortunately, many women go

>

> years without a Pap smear, while others who are getting gyn care are not

> being

> tested for infections because they don't believe they're at risk.

>

> Kol Goodstein, RN

> Massachusetts

>

> Robert Chu <chusauli wrote:to Hi Carl,

>

> I once had a patient who had a friable cervix and bled for days following

> intercourse.

>

> I needled Sp 6 and Master Tung's points Fu Ke and Liver 2, 3, 6 and it

> stopped her bleeding immediately following the acupuncture.

>

>

>

> Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, AHG, PhD

> chusauli

>

> See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

>

>

>

>

>

> > " Carl Henryk Wallmark " <carlhenryk.wallmark

> >Chinese Medicine

> ><Chinese Medicine >

> > Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause woman 56 years old

> >Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:27:26 +0100

> >

> >Hi all!

> >

> >Many thanks to all of you that have answered my question regarding

> >Candida problems!

> >

> >I have a new question regarding Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause

> >woman 56 years old.

> >

> >This patient went through her menopause (probably) at the age 52-53, and

> >during this time her menstruation ceased. A year later several things in

> >her life brought on a depression, and at this time, her periods started

> >again. When she came to me she had " menstruation " bleeding 2 times per

> >month, averaging 2 weeks out of 28 days with bleeding per month. After a

> >few weeks treatment she is down to bleeding 5-7 days, just as a normal

> >period. This is not good enough however, since these days drains her

> >energy considerable and brings on a depression-like state.

> >She shows signs of both Kid yin and yang def, with more yin def than

> >yang.

> >I have used the herb formula Er Xiang Tang with a very good result...

> >

> >And now to my question: I have tried to stop her bleeding all together,

> >with both acupuncture (SP1 moxa, SP8, EX-UE16) and herbs (Ai Ye, Pu

> >Huang, E Jiao, Di Yu, Lu Jiao Shuang), since I consider this to be one

> >of the problems in her depression-like state. I do however find it very

> >difficult to stop the bleeding and have not succeeded so far. Does

> >anyone have any suggestions/experience of similar cases?

> >

> >All answers are appreciated!

> >

> >BR

> >Carl

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for adding your voice to our list...that was extremely

helpful and clear!

-

Kol<fernandkol

To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\

@>

Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:44 PM

looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western perspective

 

 

I follow this listserve as someone who uses acupuncture as my primary health

care and as (hopefully) a future student and practitioner of acupuncture. I'm

also an RN who has worked in women's health for over 20 years. I would want to

be sure that a patient who is having post-menopausal bleeding was aware that

this is sometimes a symptom of endometrial cancer, and would encourage her to

see a GYN for possible testing (endometrial biopsy).

 

Likewise, if someone were experiencing bleeding for days after intercourse, a

Pap smear and chlamydia test would be in order. Unfortunately, many women go

years without a Pap smear, while others who are getting gyn care are not being

tested for infections because they don't believe they're at risk.

 

Kol Goodstein, RN

Massachusetts

 

Robert Chu <chusauli<chusauli> wrote:to Hi Carl,

 

I once had a patient who had a friable cervix and bled for days following

intercourse.

 

I needled Sp 6 and Master Tung's points Fu Ke and Liver 2, 3, 6 and it

stopped her bleeding immediately following the acupuncture.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, AHG, PhD

chusauli<chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com<http://www.chusaulei.com/>

 

 

 

 

 

> " Carl Henryk Wallmark "

<carlhenryk.wallmark<carlhenryk.wallmark>

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\

@>

>To:

<Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\

e >>

> Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause woman 56 years old

>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:27:26 +0100

>

>Hi all!

>

>Many thanks to all of you that have answered my question regarding

>Candida problems!

>

>I have a new question regarding Uterine bleeding in a post-menopause

>woman 56 years old.

>

>This patient went through her menopause (probably) at the age 52-53, and

>during this time her menstruation ceased. A year later several things in

>her life brought on a depression, and at this time, her periods started

>again. When she came to me she had " menstruation " bleeding 2 times per

>month, averaging 2 weeks out of 28 days with bleeding per month. After a

>few weeks treatment she is down to bleeding 5-7 days, just as a normal

>period. This is not good enough however, since these days drains her

>energy considerable and brings on a depression-like state.

>She shows signs of both Kid yin and yang def, with more yin def than

>yang.

>I have used the herb formula Er Xiang Tang with a very good result...

>

>And now to my question: I have tried to stop her bleeding all together,

>with both acupuncture (SP1 moxa, SP8, EX-UE16) and herbs (Ai Ye, Pu

>Huang, E Jiao, Di Yu, Lu Jiao Shuang), since I consider this to be one

>of the problems in her depression-like state. I do however find it very

>difficult to stop the bleeding and have not succeeded so far. Does

>anyone have any suggestions/experience of similar cases?

>

>All answers are appreciated!

>

>BR

>Carl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I completely agree with you Kol. In fact I would write to her doctor (with

her permission of course) and suggest a referral to a gynaecologist. I

think this sort of bleeding is a red flag and I would be uncomfortable

treating her without testing her for a potentially fatal condition.

Regards

Susie Parkinson

 

 

 

Message: 6

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:44:30 -0800 (PST)

Kol <fernandkol

looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western perspective

 

I follow this listserve as someone who uses acupuncture as my primary health

care and as (hopefully) a future student and practitioner of acupuncture.

I'm also an RN who has worked in women's health for over 20 years. I would

want to be sure that a patient who is having post-menopausal bleeding was

aware that this is sometimes a symptom of endometrial cancer, and would

encourage her to see a GYN for possible testing (endometrial biopsy).

 

Likewise, if someone were experiencing bleeding for days after intercourse,

a Pap smear and chlamydia test would be in order. Unfortunately, many women

go years without a Pap smear, while others who are getting gyn care are not

being tested for infections because they don't believe they're at risk.

 

Kol Goodstein, RN

Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

While we all want to do the responsible thing to help our patients, validity

of various medical procedures and tests is being scrutinized and even not

performed when denied by insr/HMO's.

 

We actually have two issues here, one is reliability of tests and the other

is reimbursement for services. More and more medical providers are not

ordering routine procedures that are not covered. It is not a surprise to

find that we are seeing a decline in the quality of the healthcare system in

the country and how this is connected with our economic competitiveness.

 

My experience with OB/GYN exam info from my recent medical classes is that

these will only show up positive after cells have changed over time. This

kind of reminds of looking for parasites or another words a needle in the

haystack. It is certainly good to rule this out.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

>DrGRPorter

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: looking at post-menopausal bleeding from western

>perspective

>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:04:16 EST

>

>

>

>Dear Stephen:

>

>What do you mean, they are 16% accurate? At what? If someone has an

>infection, an OB/GYN exam will find it. Apparently the person who started

>this

>thread has no way to rule that out before starting treatment.

>

>Do you think it is important to rule out Chlamydial infection?

>

>Guy Porter

>

>In a message dated 3/15/2006 8:40:34 A.M. Central Standard Time,

>stephenmacallan writes:

>

>hi,

>cervical smears (pap smears) are only 16 % accurate anyway - bit of a

>waste

>of time really

>

>stephen

>

>

>

>

>

>

>