Guest guest Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 , Eti Domb <etidomb> wrote: > I sent my friend to get herbs today. > he needed a ma huang formula and could not get it from any herb store in Orange county. what is going on?? stores are probably not taking the risk. try faxing one a " prescription " on your office letterhead waiving them of any liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? -- I wouldn't leave it out if I felt it was appropriate. However I do know at least one practitioner on Long Island, NY, who won't prescribe it for fear of legal repercussions. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and appropriately if indicated. Julie > At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: > >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in > >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other > >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Ma huang I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? Jim, Michael McGuffin sent out a notice through the American Herbal Products Association yesterday regarding the changed legal status of Ma Huang in California, which I've copied a portion of below. The companies that have been selling ma huang over the counter in the past have been hit with enormous liability insurance costs, which has forced many of them to look for alternatives. From AHPA: California Governor Gray Davis yesterday signed SB 582, a bill that will make sales in California of dietary supplements that contain any amount of " ephedrine group alkaloids " a crime as of January 1, 2004. In addition, licensed health care practitioners will be exempted from the ban, except that the legislation places a statutory restriction on such practitioners' scope of practice by specifically criminalizing their dispensing of ephedrine-containing supplements for weight loss, body building, or athletic performance enhancement. The law also clearly states that sale of dietary supplements that contain ephedrine alkaloids " directly to a licensed health care practitioner " and to " a licensed pharmacist " will continue to be legal when the product is for the purpose of treatment of patients under the direct care of a health care practitioner. Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 In a message dated 10/14/03 12:28:38 PM, info writes: > I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and > appropriately if indicated. > > Julie > > > > At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: > > >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in > > >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other > > >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? > > I've suggested that, since the whole thing relates to paying more for insurance for the suppliers, that we research finding an insurance company to specifically insure for ephedra used by, and only by, practitioners who have passed the NCCAOM or CA examinations. Then we might find more herb suppliers provide the herb. If you like, I can approach a broker who can find out. David Molony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 This works for me, just fine. -al. On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 10:19 AM, Stephen Morrissey wrote: (Quoting the AHPA) > In addition, licensed health care practitioners will be exempted > from the ban, except that the legislation places a statutory > restriction > on such practitioners' scope of practice by specifically criminalizing > their dispensing of ephedrine-containing supplements for weight loss, > body building, or athletic performance enhancement. The law also > clearly > states that sale of dietary supplements that contain ephedrine > alkaloids > " directly to a licensed health care practitioner " and to " a licensed > pharmacist " will continue to be legal when the product is for the > purpose of treatment of patients under the direct care of a health care > practitioner. -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. -Adlai Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 ditto - and so far it is legal for me to do so in NY. Marnae At 10:27 AM 10/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and >appropriately if indicated. > >Julie > > > > At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: > > >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in > > >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other > > >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 JIm - I think that the concern for the companies who make prepared formulas with Ma Huang is different than it is for the individual practitioner. In some states, we as practitioners have legal protection to use it. That does not give companies legal protection to put it in a prepared formula that could be sold " off label " . Those companies that will sell only to L.Ac.'s are somewhat more protected, but not much - and those companies that sell to anyone have no protection. So, will I continue to use it - absolutely. Is it going to be harder and harder for me to get prepared formulas that contain it. You bet. Marnae At 10:19 AM 10/14/2003 -0700, you wrote: > Ma huang > >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? > > >Jim, > >Michael McGuffin sent out a notice through the American Herbal Products >Association yesterday regarding the changed legal status of Ma Huang in >California, which I've copied a portion of below. The companies that >have been selling ma huang over the counter in the past have been hit >with enormous liability insurance costs, which has forced many of them >to look for alternatives. > > From AHPA: > > California Governor Gray Davis yesterday signed SB 582, a bill >that will make sales in California of dietary supplements that contain >any amount of " ephedrine group alkaloids " a crime as of January 1, >2004. > > In addition, licensed health care practitioners will be exempted >from the ban, except that the legislation places a statutory restriction >on such practitioners' scope of practice by specifically criminalizing >their dispensing of ephedrine-containing supplements for weight loss, >body building, or athletic performance enhancement. The law also clearly >states that sale of dietary supplements that contain ephedrine alkaloids > " directly to a licensed health care practitioner " and to " a licensed >pharmacist " will continue to be legal when the product is for the >purpose of treatment of patients under the direct care of a health care >practitioner. > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed >healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate >academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing >education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 And thanks to you and Kevin for setting the standard in N.Y. On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 06:33 PM, Marnae Ergil wrote: > ditto - and so far it is legal for me to do so in NY. > > Marnae > > At 10:27 AM 10/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: >> I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and >> appropriately if indicated. >> >> Julie >> >> >>> At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: >>>> I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in >>>> their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other >>>> practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? >> >> >> >> >> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed >> healthcare >> practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >> specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >> professional services, including board approved online continuing >> education. >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Sounds like a great idea, David. On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 09:12 PM, acuman1 wrote: > > In a message dated 10/14/03 12:28:38 PM, info > writes: > > >> I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and >> appropriately if indicated. >> >> Julie >> >> >>> At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: >>>> I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in >>>> their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other >>>> practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? >> >> > > I've suggested that, since the whole thing relates to paying more for > insurance for the suppliers, that we research finding an insurance > company to > specifically insure for ephedra used by, and only by, practitioners > who have passed > the NCCAOM or CA examinations. > Then we might find more herb suppliers provide the herb. > If you like, I can approach a broker who can find out. > > David Molony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Me too -- > Cara > > ditto - and so far it is legal for me to do so in NY. > > Marnae > > At 10:27 AM 10/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: >> >I, for one, will not be bullied out of using Ma Huang safely and >> >appropriately if indicated. >> > >> >Julie >> > >> > >>> > > At 3:20 PM +0000 10/14/03, James Ramholz wrote: >>>> > > >I've heard that some herbal companies will not include ma huang in >>>> > > >their formulas due to the recent controversy. Are other >>>> > > >practitioners who are considering leaving it out of thier formulas? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >> >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >> >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >> >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 I support this idea of yours, Wainwright. It makes a good deal of sense. wainwrightchurchill <w.churchill_1- wrote: I've suggested that, since the whole thing relates to paying more for > insurance for the suppliers, that we research finding an insurance company to > specifically insure for ephedra used by, and only by, practitioners who have passed > the NCCAOM or CA examinations. > Then we might find more herb suppliers provide the herb. > If you like, I can approach a broker who can find out. In the UK, Ma Huang is not available to the public, but can be used by herbalists at the maximum dosage of 600mg, three times a day. Suppliers to professional herbalists do not seem afraid to supply Ma Hunag. A member of a professional Chinese herbalist organisation would almost certainly be insured, and therefore the use of Ma Huang is both legal and insured. I find that given this, as long as one observes the necessary precautions for the use of Ma Huang, there's nothing to fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Dear Group, I was just wondering what is going on in various parts of the world with access to and use of Ma Huang. Can you get it where you live/practice? If so, do you get it raw or processed (usually that means honey-fried)? If you can get it unprocessed, do you ever prescribe it that way, or do you process/honey- fry it before dispensing it to patients? If you don't process it, do you have patients cook it for a while on it's own before adding the other herbs to the pot? Thanks in advance for your responses. Warm regards, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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