Biao-Ben in Ling Shu

[Guest guest]

As part of a presentation for a module in 'classical texts' I am required to

explain the concepts of Guan He Shu, Ben (root) and Biao (fruit) and Biao-Ben

(tips and roots) from Chapter 5 in Ling Shu.

The first two I'm ok with, however the Biao-Ben (tips and roots) I'm not so

sure of. Initially, I thought it must be root and manifestation of disease as

discussed by Maciocia, but in the context of the Ling Shu, I'm not so sure.

I'm wondering if its talking about the primary and secondary regions on the

channels?

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

 

Thank you,

Ann Brownbill.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ann,

1) which translation of Ling Shu are you using? I have several of

them, and they are all unreliable.

2) are the characters the same for ben and biao (what are the

tones), and what you say is biao-ben? If so, why translate them

differently?

3) Which Maciocia text are you referring to? Does he give you the

pinyin or characters to reference?

4) Because of the lack of a reliable translation of the Ling Shu,

it is difficult to teach and/or study, unless you have some Chinese

language skills. Then you could read the text in Chinese, and also

reference specific technical dictionaries for the Ling Shu and Nei

Jing Su Wen.

5) What do you mean by primary and secondary regions on the channels?

 

I'll try to look up the characters when I get a chance. . . .

 

 

On Feb 26, 2006, at 1:34 AM, aebrownbill wrote:

 

> As part of a presentation for a module in 'classical texts' I am

> required to

> explain the concepts of Guan He Shu, Ben (root) and Biao (fruit)

> and Biao-Ben

> (tips and roots) from Chapter 5 in Ling Shu.

> The first two I'm ok with, however the Biao-Ben (tips and roots)

> I'm not so

> sure of. Initially, I thought it must be root and manifestation of

> disease as

> discussed by Maciocia, but in the context of the Ling Shu, I'm not

> so sure.

> I'm wondering if its talking about the primary and secondary

> regions on the

> channels?

> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

>

> Thank you,

> Ann Brownbill.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> On Feb 26, 2006, at 1:34 AM, aebrownbill wrote:

> > The first two I'm ok with, however the Biao-Ben (tips and roots)

> > I'm not so

> > sure of. Initially, I thought it must be root and manifestation of

> > disease as

> > discussed by Maciocia, but in the context of the Ling Shu, I'm not

> > so sure.

 

There is a Chinese language Neijing concordance dictionary that

contains definitions for all the different terms in the neijing,

depending on their context of use. It lists each occurrence in the

original text, and it would have the answer that you are looking for.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

 

Briefly, because I only have a minute, biao and ben in this part of

Ling Shu are in fact the same characters as for what is often

translated as " root " and " tip " / " branch " . The meaning is different

though. Here it's a referrence to different parts of the vessels. Biao

refers to the parts of the vessels travelling through the trunk and

head, and ben refer to the vessels travelling through the limbs. Thus,

points on the trunk and head are called " biao xue " /branch points, and

points on the limbs are called " ben xue " /root points.

 

If I have time later to day I will try to write more.

 

Warm regards,

 

Greg

 

 

Chinese Medicine , aebrownbill

wrote:

>

> As part of a presentation for a module in 'classical texts' I am

required to

> explain the concepts of Guan He Shu, Ben (root) and Biao (fruit) and

Biao-Ben

> (tips and roots) from Chapter 5 in Ling Shu.

> The first two I'm ok with, however the Biao-Ben (tips and roots) I'm

not so

> sure of. Initially, I thought it must be root and manifestation of

disease as

> discussed by Maciocia, but in the context of the Ling Shu, I'm not

so sure.

> I'm wondering if its talking about the primary and secondary

regions on the

> channels?

> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

>

> Thank you,

> Ann Brownbill.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guan He Shu refers to the Outer door, inner door, and pivot. It refers to

the transmission of diseases through the 6 channels: Tai Yang - Tai Yin,

Shao Yang - Shao Yin, Yang Ming - Jue Yin.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, AHG, PhD

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

>aebrownbill

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

> Biao-Ben in Ling Shu

>Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:34:19 EST

>

>As part of a presentation for a module in 'classical texts' I am required

>to

>explain the concepts of Guan He Shu, Ben (root) and Biao (fruit) and

>Biao-Ben

> (tips and roots) from Chapter 5 in Ling Shu.

>The first two I'm ok with, however the Biao-Ben (tips and roots) I'm not so

>sure of. Initially, I thought it must be root and manifestation of disease

>as

>discussed by Maciocia, but in the context of the Ling Shu, I'm not so sure.

>I'm wondering if its talking about the primary and secondary regions on

>the

>channels?

>Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

>

>Thank you,

>Ann Brownbill.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

 

1) I am using Bing Wang's translation, translated into English by Nelson Wu

and Andrew Wu.

2) I haven't set my new computer up to write Chinese yet so I can't show you

the characters that I think refer to Biao-Ben and Ben-Biao. I have done

further research and think Ben-Biao (roots and fruits) refer to the beginning

and

end of the foot channels, and that Biao-Ben is actually referring to root

and manifestation, the root being the primary and the manifestation being the

secondary. I have found the Biao Ben info. in Ch.65 of Su Wen, and Ben Biao in

Ch5 of Ling Shu.

3)The Maciocia text I was referring to is The Foundations of Chinese

Medicine (1989).

 

I realise its difficult for you to help without me showing you the

characters. Thank you for your assistance thus far.

 

Ann Brownbill.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Eric,

Thank you for that.

Ann.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Greg,

 

Thanks very much for the information on Biao Ben.

 

Ann.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Ann & Z'ev,

 

Ann wrote:

> 1) I am using Bing Wang's translation, translated into English by

> Nelson Wu and Andrew Wu. 2) I haven't set my new computer up to write

> Chinese yet so I can't show you the characters that I think refer to

> Biao-Ben and Ben-Biao. I have done further research and think

> Ben-Biao (roots and fruits) refer to the beginning and end of the

> foot channels, and that Biao-Ben is actually referring to root and

> manifestation, the root being the primary and the manifestation being

> the secondary. I have found the Biao Ben info. in Ch.65 of Su Wen,

> and Ben Biao in Ch5 of Ling Shu. 3)The Maciocia text I was referring

> to is The Foundations of Chinese Medicine (1989). I realise its

> difficult for you to help without me showing you the characters.

> Thank you for your assistance thus far. Ann Brownbill.

 

My notes say:

Ben3 ¬ Root; primary cause; also refers to vessels through limbs

Ben3 Biao1 ¬‡ (¬™) Root & Branch / Manifestation; Same as Biao1

Ben3, which is more correct and is used more often

Ben3 xue ¬ô Root Pts; limb Pts

Biao1 ‡ (™) Branch; tip; manifestation; symptoms; also refers to parts

of vessels through trunk & head

Biao1 Ben3 ‡¬ (™¬) Branch / Manifestation & Root; sometimes

written as Ben3 Biao1 ¬‡ (¬™)

Biao1 xue ‡ô (™ô) Branch Pts; trunk & head Pts

 

http://www.koushin-kai.join-us.jp/hukusin.html says:

 

Channel & Collateral (Jingluo) Root Pts (Benxue)

LU LU09

LI LI11 / LI14

ST ST45

SP SP06

HT HT07

SI SI06

BL BL35

KI KI07

PC PC06

SJ SJ03

GB GB44

LV LV04

 

Channel & Collateral (Jingluo) Branch Pts (Biaoxue)

LU LU03 / BL13

LI ST08

ST ST09

SP BL20 / Tongue Root Point (Shegenbu)

HT BL15

SI BL02

BL BL01 / GV04

KI BL23 / CV23

PC PC01

SJ SJ23

GB SI19

LV BL18

 

Best regards,

 

HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

<

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello again, Ann,

 

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread. In case you are still

interested, here is

some info from my Neijing textbook on biao/ben.

 

To start, again, the characters biao1 and ben3 are used in a couple different

contexts. One

is the context of root and branch of disease. The other is in context of the

vessels.

 

Regarding vessels, one use is in indicating different parts of the vessels- the

roots/ben3

of the vessels being on the limbs and the branches/biao1 on the trunk and head.

Also, my

book says the roots are the locations where the qi begins and the branches are

where the

qi ends/disperses.

 

Ling Shu chapter 52, " wei4 qi4 " lists specific locations as the ben and biao for

each vessel,

and from that has been extrapolated the correlation with specific points, one of

each for

each vessel, as Phil listed in his recent post. Aside from that, though, any

point on the

limbs (generally below the elbow and knee) is considered a root point and any

point on the

trunk or head is considered a branch point.

 

So what is the significance of all this? For one, this is where the idea " for

diseases above,

treat below; diseases below, treat above " comes from: " biao bing qu ben, ben

bing qu

biao " , branch disease choose root, root disease choose branch. Then there is the

pairing

of points from the biao and ben of the vessels. Many point combinations take

this into

consideration, choosing points from both the biao and ben to increase

effectiveness.

 

Hope that helps clarify and is of some use!

 

Best wishes,

 

Greg

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

Thank you so much for your detailed feedback - I found it really useful.

Best Wishes,

Ann.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Phil,

Thank you so much for your feedback; it was very useful.

Best Wishes,

Ann.