Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Having left home at 19 and put myself through 2 degrees (before the Master's of Acupuncture, which came must later), I will tell you that everything is a business. If you have to buy cleaning supplies for your apartment, pay the transporation to get to work, rent, utilites and other living expenses, you need to make money! Plain and simple. Throw a couple of kids in there, and the bill goes way up. If you are living on a farm in a very rustic life style, you may need to make less. Most of us don't. So that brings me to the business side of things. That is interesting that the MD's have an MBA program. That seems to be the last thing they need, unless they are going to run a hospital. Most of us need small business managment skills, with an emphasis on health care. Yes, the insurance knowledge, even if you are not a provider, seems essential. I met a chiropractor who told me she took a workshop on this after graduating. We had an insurance class, business class, and tax class in school - none were involved enough to really make an impact. My guess is workshops and books on practice management, (and insurance issues) would be good. Some are very expensive and quite aggressive. Not particularly my style. I did take a workshop from Lynn Grodski, author of How to Build Your Ideal Private Practice, which I found very good. I don't know how often she gives these, and the book is very good. Also Honora Wolf has a book on practice. I do like the workshop approach, if the style is right for you. We probably need more people doing this. Mike: I think there is another inherent problem, that is under the surface. We are dealing with a very spiritual as well as physical healing art. It is hard to put a price on this. It feels like a public good, like education. Churches have to also make money in order to survive. The hard reality is we have to put a price on this to continue to stay in the profession. If we don't learn the business side, we will either do it part time, for friends and family, or not at all. I think MD's came to grips with this when they labored through 4 years of undergrad (I know there are some exceptions), and med school+ that required a lot of hard study. Then they graduate with debt that someone estimated at $250,000. That is enough to make you charge a price (or change your service to meet the insurance price). We are finding it takes forever to get through school and I know for me quite expensive. It is much more than than the $30,000 tuition. It foregone income, transporation, overnights (for me childcare), a lot of expense. Many acupuncturists come out with debts to deal with. So again, running like a business is imperative to stay in business. If you want to lower rates, you will probably have to see a group of people at a time. Well, I will probably stir some feathers on this. Anne Unless one wants to do this as a hobby, it is important to be aware of the business side of things. I am familiar with too many graduates who never take on full-time practice. It is very problematic and a bad sign that maybe something is wrong with the non-TCM side of their education. This is an aside but I feel that we need to better prepare graduates with more business ideas and info on how to start and run a practice. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac >Unfortunately true, for many so called Doctors or healers it is about the >money and not the patient. If they were truly looking at patient needs >they >would be supporting anything that helped not opposing us or other healing >arts. > >>I went to cancer seminar taught by a MD, he stated " unfortunately medicine >is a business " . Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 In a message dated 2/23/2006 10:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, blazing.valley writes: If you want to lower rates, you will probably have to see a group of people at a time. I believe the money the patient pays are directly in proportion to the benefit they receive. You want better results charge more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 ....'Points for Profit' by Honora Lee Wolfe, despite the slightly ruthless-sounding title, is another good book in this area. Tom K. Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <blazing.valley wrote: > > Having left home at 19 and put myself through 2 degrees (before the > Master's of Acupuncture, which came must later), I will tell you that > everything is a business. If you have to buy cleaning supplies for your > apartment, pay the transporation to get to work, rent, utilites and > other living expenses, you need to make money! Plain and simple. Throw > a couple of kids in there, and the bill goes way up. If you are living > on a farm in a very rustic life style, you may need to make less. Most > of us don't. > > So that brings me to the business side of things. That is interesting > that the MD's have an MBA program. That seems to be the last thing they > need, unless they are going to run a hospital. Most of us need small > business managment skills, with an emphasis on health care. Yes, the > insurance knowledge, even if you are not a provider, seems essential. I > met a chiropractor who told me she took a workshop on this after > graduating. We had an insurance class, business class, and tax class in > school - none were involved enough to really make an impact. > > My guess is workshops and books on practice management, (and insurance > issues) would be good. Some are very expensive and quite aggressive. > Not particularly my style. I did take a workshop from Lynn Grodski, > author of How to Build Your Ideal Private Practice, which I found very > good. I don't know how often she gives these, and the book is very > good. Also Honora Wolf has a book on practice. I do like the workshop > approach, if the style is right for you. We probably need more people > doing this. > > Mike: I think there is another inherent problem, that is under the > surface. We are dealing with a very spiritual as well as physical > healing art. It is hard to put a price on this. It feels like a public > good, like education. Churches have to also make money in order to > survive. The hard reality is we have to put a price on this to continue > to stay in the profession. If we don't learn the business side, we will > either do it part time, for friends and family, or not at all. I think > MD's came to grips with this when they labored through 4 years of > undergrad (I know there are some exceptions), and med school+ that > required a lot of hard study. Then they graduate with debt that someone > estimated at $250,000. That is enough to make you charge a price (or > change your service to meet the insurance price). > > We are finding it takes forever to get through school and I know for me > quite expensive. It is much more than than the $30,000 tuition. It > foregone income, transporation, overnights (for me childcare), a lot of > expense. Many acupuncturists come out with debts to deal with. So > again, running like a business is imperative to stay in business. If > you want to lower rates, you will probably have to see a group of people > at a time. > > Well, I will probably stir some feathers on this. > > Anne > > > > > > Unless one wants to do this as a hobby, it is important to be aware of the > business side of things. I am familiar with too many graduates who never > take on full-time practice. It is very problematic and a bad sign that > maybe something is wrong with the non-TCM side of their education. This is > an aside but I feel that we need to better prepare graduates with more > business ideas and info on how to start and run a practice. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > >Unfortunately true, for many so called Doctors or healers it is about the > >money and not the patient. If they were truly looking at patient needs > >they > >would be supporting anything that helped not opposing us or other healing > >arts. > > > >>I went to cancer seminar taught by a MD, he stated " unfortunately > medicine > >is a business " . > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Chinese Medicine > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Hi Anne - what you say is all true, an acupuncture practice is a business and we need money to live. I would like to add a challenge to these assumptions: how do we make this medicine available to everyone and not just those who have what amounts to discretionary income that allows them to pay for treatment? Yes, it's true that we can accept insurance, but I've read recently that over 60% of Americans have no health insurance. The spiritual component of the medicine, for me at least, means that I don't want to charge the local going rate ($70 - $75) for treatment because that makes it unavailable to many people who have no other health care. I have my own ideas about how to make it available without working myself to death. Anyone else have some? Karen Karen R. Adams Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS Four Directions Healing Arts 112 Avenue A Turners Falls, MA 01376 413-863-8033 413-768-8333 Anne Crowley wrote: >Having left home at 19 and put myself through 2 degrees (before the >Master's of Acupuncture, which came must later), I will tell you that >everything is a business. If you have to buy cleaning supplies for your >apartment, pay the transporation to get to work, rent, utilites and >other living expenses, you need to make money! Plain and simple. Throw >a couple of kids in there, and the bill goes way up. If you are living >on a farm in a very rustic life style, you may need to make less. Most >of us don't. > >So that brings me to the business side of things. That is interesting >that the MD's have an MBA program. That seems to be the last thing they >need, unless they are going to run a hospital. Most of us need small >business managment skills, with an emphasis on health care. Yes, the >insurance knowledge, even if you are not a provider, seems essential. I >met a chiropractor who told me she took a workshop on this after >graduating. We had an insurance class, business class, and tax class in >school - none were involved enough to really make an impact. > >My guess is workshops and books on practice management, (and insurance >issues) would be good. Some are very expensive and quite aggressive. >Not particularly my style. I did take a workshop from Lynn Grodski, >author of How to Build Your Ideal Private Practice, which I found very >good. I don't know how often she gives these, and the book is very >good. Also Honora Wolf has a book on practice. I do like the workshop >approach, if the style is right for you. We probably need more people >doing this. > >Mike: I think there is another inherent problem, that is under the >surface. We are dealing with a very spiritual as well as physical >healing art. It is hard to put a price on this. It feels like a public >good, like education. Churches have to also make money in order to >survive. The hard reality is we have to put a price on this to continue >to stay in the profession. If we don't learn the business side, we will >either do it part time, for friends and family, or not at all. I think >MD's came to grips with this when they labored through 4 years of >undergrad (I know there are some exceptions), and med school+ that >required a lot of hard study. Then they graduate with debt that someone >estimated at $250,000. That is enough to make you charge a price (or >change your service to meet the insurance price). > >We are finding it takes forever to get through school and I know for me >quite expensive. It is much more than than the $30,000 tuition. It >foregone income, transporation, overnights (for me childcare), a lot of >expense. Many acupuncturists come out with debts to deal with. So >again, running like a business is imperative to stay in business. If >you want to lower rates, you will probably have to see a group of people >at a time. > >Well, I will probably stir some feathers on this. > >Anne > > > > > >Unless one wants to do this as a hobby, it is important to be aware of the >business side of things. I am familiar with too many graduates who never >take on full-time practice. It is very problematic and a bad sign that >maybe something is wrong with the non-TCM side of their education. This is >an aside but I feel that we need to better prepare graduates with more >business ideas and info on how to start and run a practice. > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > >Unfortunately true, for many so called Doctors or healers it is about the > >money and not the patient. If they were truly looking at patient needs > >they > >would be supporting anything that helped not opposing us or other healing > >arts. > > > >>I went to cancer seminar taught by a MD, he stated " unfortunately >medicine > >is a business " . > > > > > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at >Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, >http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and >adjust accordingly. > >Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >group requires prior permission from the author. > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if >absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 karen wrote: > Hi Anne - what you say is all true, an acupuncture practice is a > business and we need money to live. I would like to add a challenge to > these assumptions: how do we make this medicine available to everyone > and not just those who have what amounts to discretionary income that > allows them to pay for treatment? Yes, it's true that we can accept > insurance, but I've read recently that over 60% of Americans have no > health insurance. The spiritual component of the medicine, for me at > least, means that I don't want to charge the local going rate ($70 - > $75) for treatment because that makes it unavailable to many people who > have no other health care. I have my own ideas about how to make it > available without working myself to death. Anyone else have some? Hi Karen! Ideas? You don't mention any, though. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.