Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:18:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, attiliodalberto writes: I've got a patient that had an operation 20 years ago around the diaphragm. The resulting deep scar is painful and the patient has to relax on it to stop the skin stretching and aggravating the pain. Has anyone treated a painful scar using acupuncture, gua sha, herbs, etc? I have, but the best treatment is neural therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Greetings, I have treated scars on patients with very good results. I usu thread thin needles into the scar, with or without e-stim. Initially, the needles do not penentrate the scar tissue easily as the adhesions are too fibrous. I needle into the area as comfortably as possible. . .each time the needles are able to penetrate along the scar more easily. THe scar will look different after each treatment and the patient usu. has more mobility in the area and feels more comfortable. IMO, scars are major sources of stagnation and the threading needles tend to break it up quite nicely, allowing the qi another way to flow. I often will also use cross friciton massage with a salve or oil on the scar, following acupuncture, as well. I hope that this helps. Best regards, Susan Froehlich, LAc Hood River, OR USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi all, I've got a patient that had an operation 20 years ago around the diaphragm. The resulting deep scar is painful and the patient has to relax on it to stop the skin stretching and aggravating the pain. Has anyone treated a painful scar using acupuncture, gua sha, herbs, etc? Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 I find that Gua Sha really works with this, although some patients find it too painful. I've been dealing with some scar tissue on my shin, and I even find it a bit too much at times. I had one teacher who's solution to dealing with scar tissue was to keep poking it with your finger or knuckles as frequently and as long as the patient can stand, and to also get them to do it. His rationale is that this will cause te body to repair the area with straight tissue, rather than the tangled pattern (like MDF board) that scar tissue forms in. Then, when the tissue has been re-profiled, the Qi can flow properly through the area. Quoting SusFro: > Greetings, > > I have treated scars on patients with very good results. I usu thread thin > needles into the scar, with or without e-stim. Initially, the needles do not > > penentrate the scar tissue easily as the adhesions are too fibrous. I needle > > into the area as comfortably as possible. . .each time the needles are able > to > penetrate along the scar more easily. THe scar will look different after > each > treatment and the patient usu. has more mobility in the area and feels more > comfortable. IMO, scars are major sources of stagnation and the threading > needles > tend to break it up quite nicely, allowing the qi another way to flow. > I often will also use cross friciton massage with a salve or oil on the scar, > > following acupuncture, as well. > > I hope that this helps. > > Best regards, > > Susan Froehlich, LAc > Hood River, OR USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 dr holmes - it seems as if gall bladder surgeries, esp in older people, are done on the Ren Mai. Today I saw a patient who had had GB surgery on Ren AND open heart surgery. She has an 18 " scar running from Ren 8 to Ren 20. (It's kind of amazing she's still pretty healthy, physically - good Zhi!) In this case, what would you suggest? Believe she has a Metal CF, Fire within, if that's useful. She's 69. Left hand pulses are very wiry, right hand pulses are disorganized and low. Karen holmes wrote: >a fine approach is matsumoto's intervention >by this approach scars are taken as a pathogenic factor and released > >factors by which scars can be classified: >scar height >presence of keloid >scar color >infection at the time of post surgical healing > >by this thought a scar can cause problems even when it happened decades ago > >pathogenicity is tithed by scar location and the meridian it is obstructing > >i have seen scars create an Emptiness distal to it and a Fullness >proximal to it which extends to topographical sectors and intertwined >zang fu > >acu treatment yields fine results > >procedure in short: > >work on points *distal* to scar to 'release' palpation pain >next work on Metal & Water points on the meridian scar is astride > >more in matsumoto's clinical strategies vol 1 >isbn 0-97196695=0-1 >chapter on Scars p 160 > >best > >dr holmes > >Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > > >>Hi all, >> >>I've got a patient that had an operation 20 years ago around the diaphragm. >>The resulting deep scar is painful and the patient has to relax on it to >>stop the skin stretching and aggravating the pain. Has anyone treated a >>painful scar using acupuncture, gua sha, herbs, etc? >> >>Warm regards, >> >>Attilio D'Alberto >>Doctor of (Beijing, China) >>B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. >>Editor >> Times >>07786 198900 >>enquiries >><http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com >> >> > > > >Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hi all... We have been treating scars by neural therapy, which is an injection of xilocaine with diabetes neddle (0,13x0,5), around and into the conjuntive tissue of the scar; the treatment consist of two aplication in an week break. Greetings, Jean Joaquim, DVM, MS Brazil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Wu Gong (Scolopendra Subspinipes)60g Teng Huang (Resina Garciniae)30g Hong Hua (Flos Carthami) 30g Shui Zhi (Hirudo seu Whitmania) 15g Meng Chong (Tabanus) 15g Wu Bei Zi (Rhois Chinensis, Galla) 800g Vinegar 2,500ml Feng Mi (Mel, Honey) 180g Grind first 6 herbs into powder (keeping Wu bei Zi separate). Heat the vinegar until boiling add honey and recook until boiling. Pour Wu Bei Zi and stir until all 800g have formed an even consistancy. Put on low flame and continue stirring until it sticks to the sides of pot then let it cool. Add other powdered herbs when cooled. Put paste on cloth and cover scar, change three times per day. Keep paste in airtight non-metal container. Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've got a patient that had an operation 20 years ago around the diaphragm. > The resulting deep scar is painful and the patient has to relax on it to > stop the skin stretching and aggravating the pain. Has anyone treated a > painful scar using acupuncture, gua sha, herbs, etc? > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > Editor > Times > 07786 198900 > enquiries > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 would work it like this ~ :: dealing with scar at location: if scar painful - Excess somewhere if scar inert - Deficiency somewhere if scar higher than surrounding tissue - stagnation if scar same as surrounding tissue - stagnation less likely if keloid present - immune status compromised matsumoto - autonomic sys compromised if scar color same as surrounding tissue - problem less marked if scar color whiter than surrounding tissue - problem significant if scar inflamed at healing - retention of toxins somewhere if scar not inflamed at healing - things less dramatic :: dealing with channel dynamics: if scar begins at ren 8, look for an Excess in segment proximal to this if scar ends at ren 20, look for a Deficiency in segment distal to this :: dealing with what precipitated the surgery: problems in heart - indicates inherent Fire from prenatal qi deficiency problems in GB - indicates Fire Marauding Metal which graduated to a tertiary Wood involvement this subtends L wiry pulses :: > Believe she has a Metal CF, Fire within, if that's useful. > very pattern now clear ~ a. primary Fire yin deficiency [Fire within] b. Metal CF [secondary KO victim] c. Wood Stagnated [tertiary] :: > Left hand pulses are very wiry, right hand pulses are disorganized and low. > R pulses as such because by now Warmers are in disharmony R cun - Metal afflicted R guan - beats me R chi - Warmers in disarray :: if all this bears out: suggest a tone Heart yin & deplete Metal yang approach if you could do it bi phasally pulses will probably settle in first session first few minutes will settle pulses and do away with wiry :: for scar ~ stand to L of patient 1. locate an indurated tender point on ren segment proximal to scar which is before ren 8. this is the trigger 2. locate an indurated area between ren 20 & 22, this is the release 3. place L hand on trigger, massage release point with R 4. if trigger is released, let go and place needle on release point, with needle pointed upwards along vessel. 5. keep for 20 m, stimulate twice with a mildly depleting action 6. remove without plugging 7. check trigger, should be significantly better 8. if some tenderness remains, apply 7 tiny moxae result: if all tenderness on trigger released, you have released the scar to a significant extent in 1st session follow up: maybe 2 more sessions will clear scar & toxins hope this helps dr holmes Believe she has a > Metal CF, Fire within, if that's useful. karen wrote: > dr holmes - it seems as if gall bladder surgeries, esp in older people, > are done on the Ren Mai. Today I saw a patient who had had GB surgery > on Ren AND open heart surgery. She has an 18 " scar running from Ren 8 > to Ren 20. (It's kind of amazing she's still pretty healthy, physically > - good Zhi!) In this case, what would you suggest? Believe she has a > Metal CF, Fire within, if that's useful. She's 69. Left hand pulses > are very wiry, right hand pulses are disorganized and low. > Karen > > holmes wrote: > > >a fine approach is matsumoto's intervention > >by this approach scars are taken as a pathogenic factor and released > > > >factors by which scars can be classified: > >scar height > >presence of keloid > >scar color > >infection at the time of post surgical healing > > > >by this thought a scar can cause problems even when it happened decades ago > > > >pathogenicity is tithed by scar location and the meridian it is obstructing > > > >i have seen scars create an Emptiness distal to it and a Fullness > >proximal to it which extends to topographical sectors and intertwined > >zang fu > > > >acu treatment yields fine results > > > >procedure in short: > > > >work on points *distal* to scar to 'release' palpation pain > >next work on Metal & Water points on the meridian scar is astride > > > >more in matsumoto's clinical strategies vol 1 > >isbn 0-97196695=0-1 > >chapter on Scars p 160 > > > >best > > > >dr holmes > > > >Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > > > > > >>Hi all, > >> > >>I've got a patient that had an operation 20 years ago around the diaphragm. > >>The resulting deep scar is painful and the patient has to relax on it to > >>stop the skin stretching and aggravating the pain. Has anyone treated a > >>painful scar using acupuncture, gua sha, herbs, etc? > >> > >>Warm regards, > >> > >>Attilio D'Alberto > >>Doctor of (Beijing, China) > >>B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > >>Editor > >> Times > >>07786 198900 > >>enquiries > >><http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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