Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi, Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! If you want the info, let me know. Thanks, Elie elieg1969 PCOM 1997 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Ok, I'm curious....Please tell me more.....what company, safety, puritiy etc. Bob www.acuherbals.com elieg1969 <elieg1969 wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! If you want the info, let me know. Thanks, Elie elieg1969 PCOM 1997 Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hi Elie Please do not promote herb companies on this forum, it is spam. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. enquiries www.attiliodalberto.com <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of elieg1969 07 February 2006 15:57 Chinese Medicine House Calls / Chinese Herbs Hi, Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! If you want the info, let me know. Thanks, Elie elieg1969 PCOM 1997 Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 House calls have advantages and disadvantages. Advantages: Low overhead. You don't need to pay rent on a space. Major convenience for your patients. Can be a nitch marketing tool. Great for patients with very tight schedules, or who are handicap and can't get to your office easily. Disadvantages: You have no control over the environment you work in. You can only see one patient at a time and you must schedule enough time between patients for travel Travel expenses. Does not tend to look as professional as a brick and mortar location. I charge $250 for any treatment not in my office and $65 for my office treatments. Due to travel time and expenses I usually will block out a whole morning or whole afternoon for a house call. Because I can only see one patient at a time, I also charge more for that. At $250 each, one could do 2 or 3 treatments a day and make a pretty good living, especially with the only overhead being travel. The problem is to find enough patients willing to pay that much for the convenience of you coming to them. Most people are happy to come to me and save almost $200. So far the only " house calls " I have done are remote IVF transfers, which must occur at fertility clinics. I always prefer to treat in my office as I can control the look and feel, and thus much more of the treatment experience. My liver Qi can't handle sitting in traffic that much. :-) Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of elieg1969 Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:57 AM Chinese Medicine House Calls / Chinese Herbs Hi, Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! If you want the info, let me know. Thanks, Elie elieg1969 PCOM 1997 Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 One idea I played around with was converting a Grumman-style cube van over to a mobile office. With a treatment table and enclosed shelves or drawers for my herbs. Quoting " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler: > House calls have advantages and disadvantages. > > Advantages: > Low overhead. You don't need to pay rent on a space. > Major convenience for your patients. > Can be a nitch marketing tool. > Great for patients with very tight schedules, or who are handicap > and can't get to your office easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi Elie, I used to do house calls when I lived in San Diego, and have decided not to offer that service here in Arizona. Basically, I found it ate up alot of my time driving around - time which was not recoverable in fees - and it was difficult shlepping my stuff around. Plus, it was often awkward find suitable treatment sites, since I didn't being a massage table with me. Lastly, I also found it made offering herbs difficult, since I couldn't very well tote around a pharmacy with me. By the way, I did receive the catalog you sent me, just today. I'll get back to you after I have a chance to review it - the next week is pretty busy. Good luck, --- elieg1969 <elieg1969 wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? > I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. > > Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They > are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to > use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we > have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return > them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese > herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! > If you want the info, let me know. > > Thanks, > Elie > elieg1969 > PCOM 1997 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi, One big disadvantage I found doing house calls is that the patient becomes a passive participant in the healing process. From my point of view, the healing process demands from the patient to do an effort. This is done not only by paying for the treatment, but also by being an active participant, such as changing his habits, improving his nutrition and actively taking care of himself. I found that most patients that insisted on house calls were not that committed to their role in the healing process. Guy Sedan Jerusalem Israel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi Guy, Yes you are so right there.But sometimes if the person can't walk then we can go do it. regards ray ford ray _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Guy Sedan Thursday, 9 February 2006 7:43 PM Chinese Medicine Re: House Calls / Chinese Herbs Hi, One big disadvantage I found doing house calls is that the patient becomes a passive participant in the healing process. From my point of view, the healing process demands from the patient to do an effort. This is done not only by paying for the treatment, but also by being an active participant, such as changing his habits, improving his nutrition and actively taking care of himself. I found that most patients that insisted on house calls were not that committed to their role in the healing process. Guy Sedan Jerusalem Israel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 As a way of an going practice it's probably not going to happen except under some unique set of circumstances. However there have been times I have helped people whose backs were so locked up they couldn't get out of bed....or following a seizure when they couldn't drive to my office. I believe that the integrity and Nature of our work both demands and serves us to be availabe to house calls in certain cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Elie, that sounds like a novel idea with the company you work for.I would lov e a catalogue if possible. J.Senko LAc. 2215 Lawnmont Ave. Apt.110 Austin Tx. 78756 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 In a message dated 2/9/2006 9:48:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, whartenb writes: There's a $20 difference. I charge $40 if they come to me and $60 if I go to them. That is all you charge??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Elie, I do mostly house calls in my practice. I really like and my patients also like the convenience of not having to go anywhere after the treatment. Plus, I think people heal better in their own home. I live in Tulsa, OK and it's pretty easy to get around in traffic. I don't know about NY. I have a mini van and I keep a table in it at all times. Then, I take a bag with me with all my " stuff " (hot packs, sheets, towels, needles, alcohol, moxa, whatever). I also work late in the evening. Being a night person anyway, my hours are opposite of the normal business hours. I also, have a treatment room in my home so people can come to me. But for the most part, I go to people's homes and I charge more of course. Hope this helps. I would like to know more about the herbs. Is there a link or something? Jamie Whartenby www.whartenby.com elieg1969 wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone have any experience doing acupuncture house calls? > I am thinking about it in the NY area. Any comments are appreciated. > > Also, In the meantime I am working for a Chinese herbal company. They > are promoting themselves by giving a bunch of their formulas for us to > use for ourselves/our patients. We only pay them if we use them and we > have 1 whole year to decide if we want them, which we then can return > them with no cost on our part. Basically we can get a whole Chinese > herbal pharmacy with no initial cost and no risk! > If you want the info, let me know. > > Thanks, > Elie > elieg1969 > PCOM 1997 Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Curious what you charge for the home visit versus your regular rate, Elie. Sounds like you are very comfortable with this. Anne Whartenby! wrote: > Elie, > > I do mostly house calls in my practice. I really like and my patients > also like the convenience of not having to go anywhere after the > treatment. Plus, I think people heal better in their own home. I live > in Tulsa, OK and it's pretty easy to get around in traffic. I don't > know about NY. I have a mini van and I keep a table in it at all > times. Then, I take a bag with me with all my " stuff " (hot packs, > sheets, towels, needles, alcohol, moxa, whatever). I also work late in > the evening. Being a night person anyway, my hours are opposite of the > normal business hours. I also, have a treatment room in my home so > people can come to me. But for the most part, I go to people's homes > and I charge more of course. Hope this helps. > > I would like to know more about the herbs. Is there a link or something? > > Jamie Whartenby > www.whartenby.com > > elieg1969 wrote: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 There's a $20 difference. I charge $40 if they come to me and $60 if I go to them. I also have some people who have their own tables so I don't have to bring mine. Some of them also have their own steam rooms, whirlpools, saunas. I've also enjoyed the change of atmosphere. I've done treatments outside, in sunrooms. There's only been a couple of times that I've had to work in small spaces but nothing that's unmanageable. Most people appreciate how inexpensive my sessions are so they tip. People also will have me work on family members, so sometimes I find myself treating the whole family. Are you thinking about doing housecalls, or do you already do them? Jamie Anne Crowley wrote: > Curious what you charge for the home visit versus your regular rate, > Elie. Sounds like you are very comfortable with this. > > Anne > > Whartenby! wrote: > > > Elie, > > > > I do mostly house calls in my practice. I really like and my patients > > also like the convenience of not having to go anywhere after the > > treatment. Plus, I think people heal better in their own home. I live > > in Tulsa, OK and it's pretty easy to get around in traffic. I don't > > know about NY. I have a mini van and I keep a table in it at all > > times. Then, I take a bag with me with all my " stuff " (hot packs, > > sheets, towels, needles, alcohol, moxa, whatever). I also work late in > > the evening. Being a night person anyway, my hours are opposite of the > > normal business hours. I also, have a treatment room in my home so > > people can come to me. But for the most part, I go to people's homes > > and I charge more of course. Hope this helps. > > > > I would like to know more about the herbs. Is there a link or > something? > > > > Jamie Whartenby > > www.whartenby.com > > > > elieg1969 wrote: > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 KarateStan wrote: > > In a message dated 2/9/2006 9:48:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > whartenb writes: > > There's a $20 difference. I charge $40 if they come to me and $60 if I > go to them. > > > That is all you charge??????????? Yes, that's all! When I started my practice I thought about prices and wanted to be affordable for everyone. Plus, I have no overhead, which makes a big difference. But I have patients who are teachers, social workers, drug counselors and they don't make alot of money but their jobs are very stressful. I make a comfortable living so I'm happy. But now that I've thought about it I make go up ;0) Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Whartenby! wrote: > Yes, that's all! When I started my practice I thought about prices and > wanted to be affordable for everyone. Plus, I have no overhead, which > makes a big difference. But I have patients who are teachers, social > workers, drug counselors and they don't make alot of money but their > jobs are very stressful. I make a comfortable living so I'm happy. But > now that I've thought about it I make go up ;0) Hi Jamie! I have the same thoughts, but not the same experience. People look at my rates, conclude I am either nuts, no good or dangerous and go to someone else for two or three times the money. I suspect that it doesn't help me that I don't photograph as prettily as you do either. Yeah, I know, *that* isn't *supposed* to make any difference . . . Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " or " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates are too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic and I know the kind of gratitude that these people have for this clinic. These people always make me feel like I am important in their lives and that my work is well worth it. I worked in the health insurance industry for over 20 years and I saw a doctors visits go from $20.00 for a regular office visit to well over $125.00 a visit when I left in 2000. I can only imagine what it is now. Now that I am a student with little spare income I cannot afford these type of prices and if it was not for health insurance I am convinced that western doctors would not be charging these prices either. I suppose I could target patients in higher tax brackets but then I feel that I would just be a part of the problem that leaves so many people standing by the wayside when it comes to health care. Just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant Jody On Feb 11, 2006, at 3:38 AM, petetheisen wrote: Whartenby! wrote: > Yes, that's all! When I started my practice I thought about prices and > wanted to be affordable for everyone. Plus, I have no overhead, which > makes a big difference. But I have patients who are teachers, social > workers, drug counselors and they don't make alot of money but their > jobs are very stressful. I make a comfortable living so I'm happy. But > now that I've thought about it I make go up ;0) Hi Jamie! I have the same thoughts, but not the same experience. People look at my rates, conclude I am either nuts, no good or dangerous and go to someone else for two or three times the money. I suspect that it doesn't help me that I don't photograph as prettily as you do either. Yeah, I know, *that* isn't *supposed* to make any difference . . . Regards, Pete Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 http:// and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Hi Jody, I think this is a worthwhile rant!! I too think about these ideas and personally want to work to change Medicaid acceptance policies. I found that in a few states acupuncture is required tx for alcoholic and drug abusers who run into the law. I also think that acupuncture could be a much better treatment for people who refuse drug treatment, but aren't given any options at all from the courts. In our state we have a lawyer working to change that. I will be working with him to include alternatives in treatments. As soon as I get done with school!!:-) On another note, I wanted to add this interesting website called " working class acupuncture " I haven't read their pamphlets yet, but will soon. http://www.workingclassacupuncture.org/index.html Rozz Jody wrote: > I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often > hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " or > " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates are > too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? > > Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or > the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe > it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. > > At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic and I know the kind of > gratitude that these people have for this clinic. These people always > make me feel like I am important in their lives and that my work is > well worth it. > > I worked in the health insurance industry for over 20 years and I saw > a doctors visits go from $20.00 for a regular office visit to well > over $125.00 a visit when I left in 2000. I can only imagine what it > is now. Now that I am a student with little spare income I cannot > afford these type of prices and if it was not for health insurance I > am convinced that western doctors would not be charging these prices > either. > > I suppose I could target patients in higher tax brackets but then I > feel that I would just be a part of the problem that leaves so many > people standing by the wayside when it comes to health care. > > Just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant > > Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I know an acupuncturist in Tucson who sees about 20 patients a day with a sliding scale of $20 - $35 per treatment. He makes more money than I do. I charge $65/treatment but only see 5 - 8 patents a day. It is a different business model, one that a lot of chiropractors use too. They use an open treatment room, where up to 6 people get treated at once. This makes acupuncture more accessible to those on a more limited budget, and if you don't mind less patient contact, you can still make a good living. My practice tends to attract those in the higher income bracket and yet I charge less than anyone else in my same market. I do well partly due to my location, but also the service I provide is very focused and one on one. It suits my personality better. I prefer to sit with my patients and get to know them a little. It makes what I provide very different than going to see the doctor where you get 10 minutes with them if you are lucky. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Rozz Lieght Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:03 PM Chinese Medicine Re: House Calls / Chinese Herbs Hi Jody, I think this is a worthwhile rant!! I too think about these ideas and personally want to work to change Medicaid acceptance policies. I found that in a few states acupuncture is required tx for alcoholic and drug abusers who run into the law. I also think that acupuncture could be a much better treatment for people who refuse drug treatment, but aren't given any options at all from the courts. In our state we have a lawyer working to change that. I will be working with him to include alternatives in treatments. As soon as I get done with school!!:-) On another note, I wanted to add this interesting website called " working class acupuncture " I haven't read their pamphlets yet, but will soon. http://www.workingclassacupuncture.org/index.html Rozz Jody wrote: > I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often > hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " or > " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates are > too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? > > Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or > the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe > it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. > > At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic and I know the kind of > gratitude that these people have for this clinic. These people always > make me feel like I am important in their lives and that my work is > well worth it. > > I worked in the health insurance industry for over 20 years and I saw > a doctors visits go from $20.00 for a regular office visit to well > over $125.00 a visit when I left in 2000. I can only imagine what it > is now. Now that I am a student with little spare income I cannot > afford these type of prices and if it was not for health insurance I > am convinced that western doctors would not be charging these prices > either. > > I suppose I could target patients in higher tax brackets but then I > feel that I would just be a part of the problem that leaves so many > people standing by the wayside when it comes to health care. > > Just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant > > Jody Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I'm struggling w/making the medicine available to everyone. I have a broad sliding scale - $30 - $70, most people pay $30-$50. The clinic is too new to tell how this will work long range, but that's only part of the issue for me. I chose a town where the avg income is <$24000/year, tho I'm surrounded by towns w/higher avg incomes. I frankly don't care about that 'you'll get no respect if you don't charge blah blah' stuff. Absolutely, pnts should pay something; this is a partnership of sorts, and both of us have to make a commitment. But there are hundreds of people in my area who feel that acupuncture might be good for them, but they'll never be able to afford it. That's a class/economic barrier, and it makes me angry. It is unjust. So I'm trying to find other ways - link up w/private social service groups who can help defray the costs for the patients. Maybe found a non-profit that will subsidize treatments (been done before). Treating more than one patient at a time (group treatments have their own power, and maybe that will offset the loss of individual time w/one's practitioner) - but, that individual time is one part of the medicine that really speaks to me. I'm not clear how I'm going to do this - and input is greatfully accepted. But I am clear that I'm going to do it. For those who are interested, check out this clinic in Portland, OR - I really like their setup: http://www.workingclassacupuncture.org/ Karen > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Rozz thank you so much for this web link. I plan on investigating it thoroughly. Jody On Feb 11, 2006, at 3:02 PM, Rozz Lieght wrote: Hi Jody, I think this is a worthwhile rant!! I too think about these ideas and personally want to work to change Medicaid acceptance policies. I found that in a few states acupuncture is required tx for alcoholic and drug abusers who run into the law. I also think that acupuncture could be a much better treatment for people who refuse drug treatment, but aren't given any options at all from the courts. In our state we have a lawyer working to change that. I will be working with him to include alternatives in treatments. As soon as I get done with school!!:-) On another note, I wanted to add this interesting website called " working class acupuncture " I haven't read their pamphlets yet, but will soon. http://www.workingclassacupuncture.org/index.html Rozz Jody wrote: > I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often > hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " or > " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates are > too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? > > Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or > the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe > it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. > > At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic and I know the kind of > gratitude that these people have for this clinic. These people always > make me feel like I am important in their lives and that my work is > well worth it. > > I worked in the health insurance industry for over 20 years and I saw > a doctors visits go from $20.00 for a regular office visit to well > over $125.00 a visit when I left in 2000. I can only imagine what it > is now. Now that I am a student with little spare income I cannot > afford these type of prices and if it was not for health insurance I > am convinced that western doctors would not be charging these prices > either. > > I suppose I could target patients in higher tax brackets but then I > feel that I would just be a part of the problem that leaves so many > people standing by the wayside when it comes to health care. > > Just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant > > Jody Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 http:// and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Jody wrote: > I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often > hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " > or " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates > are too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? Hi Jody! There is a set of conflicting expectations. People do equate price with quality, even those who can't pay it. I have lately been billing at a high rate and then collecting a " co-pay " from those who have Medicare, insurance and the like. If they have no insurance I get the same " co-pay " and tell them to pay the rest " later, when they are able " . The bill is $300, they pay $36 or something. This is not a good solution because the insurance most likely won't pay me, but at least the people come in, get a treatment and I get something. Regards, Pete > > Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or > the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe > it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. > > At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hi Jamie I'm genuinely pleased that this house call system is working for you, but are you doing it for occasional treatments or full time? My own experience (London, UK) is that it takes 3 hours 10 mins (total) to do a *single* 1 hour treatment. This was a typical call. Dismantle couch and move (down 3 flights of stairs) with all other gear to car. 20 mins. Drive to destination, say 20 mins (generous estimate). Set up couch and gear at patient's place (can be challenging in new environment). 20 mins. Treatment. 1 hour. Dismantely couch and move with all other gear to car. 15 mins. Drive back to home clinic, say 20 mins (generous estimate). Move couch and all gear (up 3 flights of stairs) to home clinic and set up couch. 20 mins. Add some cushion for traffic jams during each journey, say 15 mins. That comes to 3 hours 10 mins for a 1 hour treatment. But of course if you are doing it full time you would be going straight from patient A to patient B (in the above scenario, say, 20 mins drive). That would make 2 hours 10 mins per treatment. In addition you could use a van that you keep permanently stocked with duplicates of your couch and stuff and also buy a really good quality (expensive) light-weight couch that opens up with one flick of the arm and buy some really accessible fold-out bags for your bits. I reckon that you could (in local London area) get the time down to 1 hour 50 mins per treatment (plus the extra 20 mins drive home at the end of the day). That way you obviously need to charge twice the rate to survive if you are doing it full time. This is my experience. I didn't have a van and I had a back-breaking heavy couch and gave up the house calls quickly. All the best, David Chinese Medicine , " Whartenby! " <whartenb wrote: > > There's a $20 difference. I charge $40 if they come to me and $60 if I > go to them. I also have some people who have their own tables so I > don't have to bring mine. Some of them also have their own steam rooms, > whirlpools, saunas. I've also enjoyed the change of atmosphere. I've > done treatments outside, in sunrooms. There's only been a couple of > times that I've had to work in small spaces but nothing that's > unmanageable. Most people appreciate how inexpensive my sessions are so > they tip. People also will have me work on family members, so sometimes > I find myself treating the whole family. Are you thinking about doing > housecalls, or do you already do them? > > Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 David, It usually takes me about an hour and 30 minutes to do an hour treatment-depending on the driving distance. The table I use isn't heavy (to me) plus I don't have the 3 flights of stairs. Whew! The treatments I do are full time and few occasional. I also have patients who have their own table and it's all set up so all I do is walk in. My house call patients are about 75% of what I do. So far, it's worked great for me. It also gives me the advantage of the patient's surroundings at home and gives me a better idea of where they're coming from. kindest regards, Jamie David Gordon wrote: > Hi Jamie > > I'm genuinely pleased that this house call system is working for you, > but are you doing it for occasional treatments or full time? > > My own experience (London, UK) is that it takes 3 hours 10 mins > (total) to do a *single* 1 hour treatment. > > This was a typical call. > Dismantle couch and move (down 3 flights of stairs) with all other > gear to car. 20 mins. > Drive to destination, say 20 mins (generous estimate). > Set up couch and gear at patient's place (can be challenging in new > environment). 20 mins. > Treatment. 1 hour. > Dismantely couch and move with all other gear to car. 15 mins. > Drive back to home clinic, say 20 mins (generous estimate). > Move couch and all gear (up 3 flights of stairs) to home clinic and > set up couch. 20 mins. > Add some cushion for traffic jams during each journey, say 15 mins. > > That comes to 3 hours 10 mins for a 1 hour treatment. > > But of course if you are doing it full time you would be going > straight from patient A to patient B (in the above scenario, say, 20 > mins drive). That would make 2 hours 10 mins per treatment. In > addition you could use a van that you keep permanently stocked with > duplicates of your couch and stuff and also buy a really good quality > (expensive) light-weight couch that opens up with one flick of the > arm and buy some really accessible fold-out bags for your bits. > > I reckon that you could (in local London area) get the time down to 1 > hour 50 mins per treatment (plus the extra 20 mins drive home at the > end of the day). That way you obviously need to charge twice the rate > to survive if you are doing it full time. > > This is my experience. I didn't have a van and I had a back-breaking > heavy couch and gave up the house calls quickly. > > All the best, > > David > > > Chinese Medicine , " Whartenby! " > <whartenb wrote: > > > > There's a $20 difference. I charge $40 if they come to me and $60 > if I > > go to them. I also have some people who have their own tables so I > > don't have to bring mine. Some of them also have their own steam > rooms, > > whirlpools, saunas. I've also enjoyed the change of atmosphere. > I've > > done treatments outside, in sunrooms. There's only been a couple > of > > times that I've had to work in small spaces but nothing that's > > unmanageable. Most people appreciate how inexpensive my sessions > are so > > they tip. People also will have me work on family members, so > sometimes > > I find myself treating the whole family. Are you thinking about > doing > > housecalls, or do you already do them? > > > > Jamie > > > > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 How does anyone operate a clinic where many patients are treated in the same room, while simultaneously observing the confidentiality requirements of HIPAA? Seems like a big conflict to me. , L.A.c --- " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler wrote: > I know an acupuncturist in Tucson who sees about 20 patients a day with > a sliding scale of $20 - $35 per treatment. He makes more money than I > do. I charge $65/treatment but only see 5 - 8 patents a day. It is a > different business model, one that a lot of chiropractors use too. They > use an open treatment room, where up to 6 people get treated at once. > This makes acupuncture more accessible to those on a more limited > budget, and if you don't mind less patient contact, you can still make a > good living. > > My practice tends to attract those in the higher income bracket and yet > I charge less than anyone else in my same market. I do well partly due > to my location, but also the service I provide is very focused and one > on one. It suits my personality better. I prefer to sit with my > patients and get to know them a little. It makes what I provide very > different than going to see the doctor where you get 10 minutes with > them if you are lucky. > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. > Oasis Acupuncture > <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte > Suite D-35 > Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > Phone: (480) 991-3650 > Fax: (480) 247-4472 > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Rozz > Lieght > Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:03 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: House Calls / Chinese Herbs > > > Hi Jody, > > I think this is a worthwhile rant!! I too think about these ideas and > personally want to work to change Medicaid acceptance policies. I found > that in a few states acupuncture is required tx for alcoholic and drug > abusers who run into the law. I also think that acupuncture could be a > much better treatment for people who refuse drug treatment, but aren't > given any options at all from the courts. In our state we have a lawyer > working to change that. I will be working with him to include > alternatives in treatments. As soon as I get done with school!!:-) > > On another note, I wanted to add this interesting website called > " working class acupuncture " I haven't read their pamphlets yet, but > will soon. > > http://www.workingclassacupuncture.org/index.html > > Rozz > > Jody wrote: > > I am just going to be starting my practice (after school) and I often > > > hear that " if you don't charge enough people will not respect you " or > > > " people will think you don't know what your doing if your rates are > > too low " . Well can you please tell me who these " people " are? > > > > Is it the single mother with 2 or 3 kids trying to make ends meet or > > the guy who got laid off and now has no health insurance. Or maybe > > it's the senior citizen on a fixed income. I don't think so. > > > > At my school we have a very busy " free " clinic and I know the kind of > > > gratitude that these people have for this clinic. These people always > > > make me feel like I am important in their lives and that my work is > > well worth it. > > > > I worked in the health insurance industry for over 20 years and I saw > > > a doctors visits go from $20.00 for a regular office visit to well > > over $125.00 a visit when I left in 2000. I can only imagine what it > > is now. Now that I am a student with little spare income I cannot > > afford these type of prices and if it was not for health insurance I > > am convinced that western doctors would not be charging these prices > > either. > > > > I suppose I could target patients in higher tax brackets but then I > > feel that I would just be a part of the problem that leaves so many > > people standing by the wayside when it comes to health care. > > > > Just had to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant > > > > Jody > > > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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