Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 hello, mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child:- fire feeds earth earth feeds metal metal feeds water water feeds wood wood feeds earth etc. So, if you see, say, lots of earthy symptoms (food issues - over-protective types) but the C,S,O and E all correspond with fire then you have a fire causative factor with a screaming child (earth) or you may have a fire (earth within!) causative factor. The 5 element causative factor goes three layers deep - e.g. earth within wood within water (thats me!) - very hard to perceive - imagine an odour - fragrant within rancid within putrid!!!!! (still me) or a colour - yellow within green within blue - mind boggles. At best I go 1 layer deep i.e. element within, in my work. stephen ------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Just one correction - wood feeds fire. Anne stephenmacallan wrote: > hello, > mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child:- > fire feeds earth > earth feeds metal > metal feeds water > water feeds wood > wood feeds earth > etc. > > So, if you see, say, lots of earthy symptoms (food issues - > over-protective > types) but the C,S,O and E all correspond with fire then you have a fire > causative factor with a screaming child (earth) or you may have a fire > (earth > within!) causative factor. The 5 element causative factor goes three > layers > deep - e.g. earth within wood within water (thats me!) - very hard to > perceive - imagine an odour - fragrant within rancid within > putrid!!!!! (still > me) or a colour - yellow within green within blue - mind boggles. At > best I go > 1 layer deep i.e. element within, in my work. > > stephen > > > ------------- > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 oh yeah, what a dipstick, me. I was busy thinking way ahead of my fingers bout the next paragraph. Thanx stephen > Just one correction - wood feeds fire. > > Anne > > stephenmacallan wrote: > > > hello, > > mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child:- > > fire feeds earth > > earth feeds metal > > metal feeds water > > water feeds wood > > wood feeds earth > > etc. > > > > So, if you see, say, lots of earthy symptoms (food issues - > > over-protective > > types) but the C,S,O and E all correspond with fire then you have a fire > > causative factor with a screaming child (earth) or you may have a fire > > (earth > > within!) causative factor. The 5 element causative factor goes three > > layers > > deep - e.g. earth within wood within water (thats me!) - very hard to > > perceive - imagine an odour - fragrant within rancid within > > putrid!!!!! (still > > me) or a colour - yellow within green within blue - mind boggles. At > > best I go > > 1 layer deep i.e. element within, in my work. > > > > stephen > > > > > > ------------- > > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > > > > and > > adjust accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > > absolutely necessary. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > hello, > mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child:- > fire feeds earth > earth feeds metal > metal feeds water > water feeds wood > wood feeds earth > etc. > > So, if you see, say, lots of earthy symptoms (food issues - over-protective > types) but the C,S,O and E all correspond with fire then you have a fire > causative factor with a screaming child (earth) or you may have a fire (earth > within!) causative factor. The 5 element causative factor goes three layers > deep - e.g. earth within wood within water (thats me!) - very hard to > perceive - imagine an odour - fragrant within rancid within putrid!!!!! (still > me) or a colour - yellow within green within blue - mind boggles. At best I go > 1 layer deep i.e. element within, in my work. > > stephen Hi Stephen! C,S,O and E? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > hello, > mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child:- Hi Stephen! This is my listen and smell checklist. Listen & smell: Coarse, strong respiration. Yes or No. (excess) Weak Respiration, or shortness of breath, weak, low voice, little speech. Yes or No. (deficiency) Sudden loss of voice. Yes or No. (usually wind heat) Chronic loss of voice. Yes or No. (deficiency) Wheezing. Yes or No. (asthma due to kidney deficiency) Heavy or sudden, violent cough. Yes or No. (excess) Dry hacking cough. Yes or No. (heat or dryness) Weak cough. Yes or No. (deficiency pattern) Shouting " angry " tone of voice. Yes or No. (wood imbalance or liver disharmony) Frequent laughter without reason. Yes or No. (fire imbalance) Laughing tone of voice. Yes or No. (heart disharmony) Singing tone of voice. Yes or No. (earth imbalance or spleen disharmony) Crying. Yes or No. (related to metal, lung deficiency) Whimpering tone of voice. Yes or No. (lung disharmony) Very thin and weak voice. Yes or No. (weakness of Lung Qi) Groaning tone of voice. Yes or No. (imbalance in water or Kidney disharmony) Loud sounds from the abdomen. Yes or No. (full or excessive pattern) Weak sounds from the abdomen. Yes or No. (empty or deficient pattern) Foul, rotten nauseating odor like rotten meat or rotten eggs. Yes or No. (Kidney or bladder damp heat, or heat in any organ) Pungent, fishy odor that seems to hurt the nose like bleach odor. Yes or No. (Cold and Deficiency) Rancid or goatish, wood; Scorched or burning, fire; Fragrant or perfumed, earth; Fleshy or rank, metal and Rotten or putrid, water (or heat in any organ) Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > hello, > mother/son law states that the mother feeds the child: Hi Stephen! This is my 5 E body criterea Five Element Body types: Tall and slender, hard working, developed intelligence, poor physical strength, elegant hands and feet, subtle shade of green in the complexion, reflective and tend to worry, " Wood Type " . Yes or No. (may suffer in autumn and winter) Small pointed head, fast moving, small hands, red florid complexion, wide teeth, maybe pointed chin, curly or scanty hair, well developed shoulders, short-tempered, quick but soft gait, think and worry too much, " Fire Type " . Yes or No. (may suffer in autumn and winter, prone to sudden death) Relatively pale, square face, relatively small head, small shoulders and upper back, relatively flat abdomen, small hands and feet, strong voice, move swiftly, have keen powers of thought, honest and upright, quiet, calm but capable of decisive action when called for, " Metal Type " . Yes or No. (may suffer illness in spring and summer) Slightly fat, calm, large head, belly and thighs, wide jaws, yellowish complexion, round shaped face, well developed shoulders and back, strong thigh and calf muscles, relatively small hands and feet, walk firmly without raising feet very high, calm, generous, steady, helpful, not overambitious. " Earth Type " . Yes or No. (healthy in autumn and winter, subject to external invasion in spring and summer) Round face and body, long spine, narrow small shoulders with a large abdomen, dark complexion, wrinkles, relatively large head, sympathetic, laid-back, move their body as they walk and have a hard time keeping still, good negotiator and loyal work colleague, " Water Type " . Yes or No. (may suffer illness in spring and summer) Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. regards stephen > > Hi Stephen! > > This is my 5 E body criterea > > Five Element Body types: > > Tall and slender, hard working, developed intelligence, poor physical > strength, elegant hands and feet, subtle shade of green in the > complexion, reflective and tend to worry, " Wood Type " . Yes or No. (may > suffer in autumn and winter) > > Small pointed head, fast moving, small hands, red florid complexion, > wide teeth, maybe pointed chin, curly or scanty hair, well developed > shoulders, short-tempered, quick but soft gait, think and worry too > much, " Fire Type " . Yes or No. (may suffer in autumn and winter, prone to > sudden death) > > Relatively pale, square face, relatively small head, small shoulders and > upper back, relatively flat abdomen, small hands and feet, strong voice, > move swiftly, have keen powers of thought, honest and upright, quiet, > calm but capable of decisive action when called for, " Metal Type " . Yes > or No. (may suffer illness in spring and summer) > > Slightly fat, calm, large head, belly and thighs, wide jaws, yellowish > complexion, round shaped face, well developed shoulders and back, strong > thigh and calf muscles, relatively small hands and feet, walk firmly > without raising feet very high, calm, generous, steady, helpful, not > overambitious. " Earth Type " . Yes or No. (healthy in autumn and winter, > subject to external invasion in spring and summer) > > Round face and body, long spine, narrow small shoulders with a large > abdomen, dark complexion, wrinkles, relatively large head, sympathetic, > laid-back, move their body as they walk and have a hard time keeping > still, good negotiator and loyal work colleague, " Water Type " . Yes or > No. (may suffer illness in spring and summer) > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 hello pete, Colour Sound Odour Emotion regards stephen > > Hi Stephen! > > C,S,O and E? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking > my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s > can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire > c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough > time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. > Hi Stephen! The " yes or no " is in the form as a prompt for the Alzheimers stricken practitioner who has to keep practicing or starve but needs to remember what the form calls for. <g> I copied and pasted it. AND, I would like your opinion. What is " c.f.`s " ? > Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some > that have a tough time in the summer Remarkable that there are exceptions. How do you know when the exceptions apply? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hello pete, c.f`s = Causative Factor. In 5E practice the CF is all. The CF is an element and a particular official within the element. The CF is determined by the C.S.O. and E. only - the associations can go either way - a Fire CF can suffer in the winter when the fire is not getting a boost from from the climate, but a boost from the climate can make a person suffer especially if, but not only if, the condition is one of excess. In 5e treatment the case history/physical exam is aimed at determining the C.S.O. and E. in order to `get` the CF. The symptoms are not relevant - discussion of the symptoms serves as a vehicle to determine CSOE - the element within, if poss, and the level of imbalance (mind/body/spirit). Without `getting` the CSOE and CF you cant do 5e treatment that works/helps. So, its not a case of `when the exceptions apply` cos there aren`t exception - better/worse in a season/climate/time of day/etc/body shape/etcetc is subsidiary/secondary information to understand the whole picture. Is this making it clear or just complicating it?. Bottom line is that csoe is the key! stephen Quoting petetheisen <petetheisen: > stephenmacallan wrote: > > Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking > > my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s > > can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire > > c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough > > time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. > > > Hi Stephen! > > The " yes or no " is in the form as a prompt for the Alzheimers stricken > practitioner who has to keep practicing or starve but needs to remember > what the form calls for. <g> I copied and pasted it. AND, I would like > your opinion. > > What is " c.f.`s " ? > > > Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some > > that have a tough time in the summer > > Remarkable that there are exceptions. How do you know when the > exceptions apply? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 CF is either Causative Factor (Worsely's definition) or Constitutional Factor. Both relate to the fact that we all have all Five Elements in us, but one is where we have our greatest strengths (Constitutional) and greatest weaknesses (Causative). To me, Causative really narrows the band width of a person, looks only at the pathology. Constitution is much broader, and spans from pathology to health. When you add to that the the other Elements also exist in us, and in various, um, 'quantities'/levels, and you see why it is complex. So you may have a Fire CF w/problems in Earth (St/Sp), and you might not detect scorched but smell fragrant. This is why we try to find 3 of the 4 - color, sound, odor, emotion - to make a diagnosis. Karen petetheisen wrote: >stephenmacallan wrote: > > >>Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking >>my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s >>can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire >>c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough >>time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. >> >> >> >Hi Stephen! > >The " yes or no " is in the form as a prompt for the Alzheimers stricken >practitioner who has to keep practicing or starve but needs to remember >what the form calls for. <g> I copied and pasted it. AND, I would like >your opinion. > >What is " c.f.`s " ? > > > >>Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some >>that have a tough time in the summer >> >> > >Remarkable that there are exceptions. How do you know when the >exceptions apply? > >Regards, > >Pete > > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: Hi Stephen! So in the absence of any 3 of an identifiable color, sound, odor and emotion you don't bother with 5 E? But the body shape is not a color, sound, odor or emotion so I can just not worry about the body shape of the usual hippo-shaped patient presenting at my office? Come to think of it, it is unusual for me to find a patient who laughs, cries, groans, sings or whatever the other one was, either. Emotion, on the other hand, is more accessible - patients readily tell me how they feel. So I can get color and emotion, only 2, usually. So no 5 E for me? Regards, Pete > Hello pete, > c.f`s = Causative Factor. In 5E practice the CF is all. The CF is an > element and a particular official within the element. The CF is determined by > the C.S.O. and E. only - the associations can go either way - a Fire CF can > suffer in the winter when the fire is not getting a boost from from the > climate, but a boost from the climate can make a person suffer especially if, > but not only if, the condition is one of excess. In 5e treatment the case > history/physical exam is aimed at determining the C.S.O. and E. in order to > `get` the CF. The symptoms are not relevant - discussion of the symptoms > serves as a vehicle to determine CSOE - the element within, if poss, and the > level of imbalance (mind/body/spirit). Without `getting` the CSOE and CF you > cant do 5e treatment that works/helps. So, its not a case of `when the > exceptions apply` cos there aren`t exception - better/worse in a > season/climate/time of day/etc/body shape/etcetc is subsidiary/secondary > information to understand the whole picture. Is this making it clear or just > complicating it?. Bottom line is that csoe is the key! > > stephen > > > > > Quoting petetheisen <petetheisen: > > >>stephenmacallan wrote: >> >>>Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking >>>my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s >>>can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire >>>c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough >>>time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. >>> >> >>Hi Stephen! >> >>The " yes or no " is in the form as a prompt for the Alzheimers stricken >>practitioner who has to keep practicing or starve but needs to remember >>what the form calls for. <g> I copied and pasted it. AND, I would like >>your opinion. >> >>What is " c.f.`s " ? >> >> >>>Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some >>>that have a tough time in the summer >> >>Remarkable that there are exceptions. How do you know when the >>exceptions apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Hello pete the CSOE are never absent - you may not have trained your senses to the point where you can perceive them but they are there!!! If you cant get them then any 5e treatment that you do is just a stab in the dark. If blind ppl can be trained to echo-locate and perfume experts can break a perfume down into its component parts you can learn to perceive the CSOE. It takes work! its like feeling the qualities on pulses. Doctors say there`s justr a pulse, you will say there`s slippery, bounding, etc. - same principle - practice, practice, practice. emotion is not what patients tell you they feel - it is the most imbalanced emotion manifested by them. stephen > stephenmacallan wrote: > > Hi Stephen! > > So in the absence of any 3 of an identifiable color, sound, odor and > emotion you don't bother with 5 E? But the body shape is not a color, > sound, odor or emotion so I can just not worry about the body shape of > the usual hippo-shaped patient presenting at my office? > > Come to think of it, it is unusual for me to find a patient who laughs, > cries, groans, sings or whatever the other one was, either. Emotion, on > the other hand, is more accessible - patients readily tell me how they feel. > > So I can get color and emotion, only 2, usually. So no 5 E for me? > > Regards, > > Pete > > Hello pete, > > c.f`s = Causative Factor. In 5E practice the CF is all. The CF is > an > > element and a particular official within the element. The CF is determined > by > > the C.S.O. and E. only - the associations can go either way - a Fire CF can > > > suffer in the winter when the fire is not getting a boost from from the > > climate, but a boost from the climate can make a person suffer especially > if, > > but not only if, the condition is one of excess. In 5e treatment the case > > history/physical exam is aimed at determining the C.S.O. and E. in order to > > > `get` the CF. The symptoms are not relevant - discussion of the symptoms > > serves as a vehicle to determine CSOE - the element within, if poss, and > the > > level of imbalance (mind/body/spirit). Without `getting` the CSOE and CF > you > > cant do 5e treatment that works/helps. So, its not a case of `when the > > exceptions apply` cos there aren`t exception - better/worse in a > > season/climate/time of day/etc/body shape/etcetc is subsidiary/secondary > > information to understand the whole picture. Is this making it clear or > just > > complicating it?. Bottom line is that csoe is the key! > > > > stephen > > > > > > > > > > Quoting petetheisen <petetheisen: > > > > > >>stephenmacallan wrote: > >> > >>>Hello Pete, interesting........ re the yes or no bit - are you asking > >>>my opinion? Some I agree with, but some I dont e.g. only wood c.f.`s > >>>can have a developed intelligence? I dont think so. Whilst many fire > >>>c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some that have a tough > >>>time in the summer - esp if triple heater is the primary issue. Etc. > >>> > >> > >>Hi Stephen! > >> > >>The " yes or no " is in the form as a prompt for the Alzheimers stricken > >>practitioner who has to keep practicing or starve but needs to remember > >>what the form calls for. <g> I copied and pasted it. AND, I would like > >>your opinion. > >> > >>What is " c.f.`s " ? > >> > >> > >>>Whilst many fire c.f.`s have a tough time in winter, there are some > >>>that have a tough time in the summer > >> > >>Remarkable that there are exceptions. How do you know when the > >>exceptions apply? > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > Hello pete > the CSOE are never absent - you may not have trained your senses to > the point where you can perceive them but they are there!!! If you cant get > them then any 5e treatment that you do is just a stab in the dark. If blind > ppl can be trained to echo-locate and perfume experts can break a perfume down > into its component parts you can learn to perceive the CSOE. It takes work! > its like feeling the qualities on pulses. Doctors say there`s justr a pulse, > you will say there`s slippery, bounding, etc. - same principle - practice, > practice, practice. emotion is not what patients tell you they feel - it is > the most imbalanced emotion manifested by them. Hi Stephen! How do you discern the imbalanced emotion " manifested " ? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Hello pete, maybe you should buy a book, or maybe I should run a course..lol. Ask 100 people who have lost a loved to tell you a bit a bit about their loss. Some will manifest joy as they tell you some will manifest grief some will manifest fear some will manifest anger some will manifest sympathy .................................. Grief is the appropriate emotion, anything else is imbalanced. This is kind simplistic but it serves to illustrate. Then tell that 100 ppl a joke - who laughs?, who doesn`t? - what emotion do they manifest instead. Imbalanced emotions manifest inappropriately - the most imbalanced emotion manifests most inappropriately, most often. Be 5 minutes late for every patient - see who gets pissed off, who doesn`t - what do they do instead. etc.etc. Observe! and Learn stephen > stephenmacallan wrote: > > Hello pete > > the CSOE are never absent - you may not have trained your senses > to > > the point where you can perceive them but they are there!!! If you cant get > > > them then any 5e treatment that you do is just a stab in the dark. If blind > > > ppl can be trained to echo-locate and perfume experts can break a perfume > down > > into its component parts you can learn to perceive the CSOE. It takes work! > > > its like feeling the qualities on pulses. Doctors say there`s justr a > pulse, > > you will say there`s slippery, bounding, etc. - same principle - practice, > > > practice, practice. emotion is not what patients tell you they feel - it is > > > the most imbalanced emotion manifested by them. > > Hi Stephen! > > How do you discern the imbalanced emotion " manifested " ? > > Regards, > > Pete > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Pete, If you are interested in trying some 5 Element or constitutional acupuncture it is about practice. J.R. Worsley used to say " Loose your mind and come to your senses " Americans have just as much obvious colour, sound odour and emotion as any one else. Again JR used to say " 5 Element is easy, it is you who need to grow " It is all about practicing observation. Colour and sound are the best starting points. The colour of Fire can range to florid red to an ashen grey, you will find deep under the skin at the level of blood, Earth's red mango to grey banana not as deep, where the muscles are. The opaque white of Metal is ON the skin as though you cant see thought it. like they are wearing powder, even if they are not, Wood will shine out like a fresh spring bud pushing out from the lines of the small tendons of the face and Water will be the most forward as thought the ruddy red/blue is floating above the skin. With practice make up is irrelevant, natural light/daylight bulb is the thing that really helps Excess Fire people sound like they are always about to get to the punch line of a joke, lack of fire - sad, quiet and intimate, both want to be in relationship. With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the conversation is all about them. Metal's weep sounds like no matter what they are talking about there is a catch in their words, as thought they are talking to the universe,some times you may as well not be there. The groan of Water is a determination to get to the end of the sentence and the end of day. Nothing gets in their way like a river going down to the sea. The tone stay the same unless it drop levels like a waterfall, then moves off again. The shout of Wood is the sound of assertion, as thought there is too much energy on the beginning of the word and it dies away at the end or lack of shout where you feel you need to come closer just to receive the communication. Again these take practice to see and hear but if you are interested in treating someone at this deeper level it most certainly has its rewards, All the best, Gye Ph. + 61(0) 2 99299329 Five Element Acupuncture Information Site www.5element.com.au Five Element Seminars www.5element.com.au/seminars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Gye Bennetts wrote: Hi Gye! Thanks for this, it is very clear. Regards, Pete > If you are interested in trying some 5 Element or constitutional > acupuncture it is about practice. J.R. Worsley used to say " Loose > your mind and come to your senses " Americans have just as much > obvious colour, sound odour and emotion as any one else. Again JR > used to say " 5 Element is easy, it is you who need to grow " It is > all about practicing observation. Colour and sound are the best > starting points. > > The colour of Fire can range to florid red to an ashen grey, you will > find deep under the skin at the level of blood, Earth's red mango to > grey banana not as deep, where the muscles are. The opaque white of > Metal is ON the skin as though you cant see thought it. like they are > wearing powder, even if they are not, Wood will shine out like a > fresh spring bud pushing out from the lines of the small tendons of > the face and Water will be the most forward as thought the ruddy > red/blue is floating above the skin. With practice make up is > irrelevant, natural light/daylight bulb is the thing that really > helps > > Excess Fire people sound like they are always about to get to the > punch line of a joke, lack of fire - sad, quiet and intimate, both > want to be in relationship. With Earth people the sing happens over > the length of the word, the conversation is all about them. Metal's > weep sounds like no matter what they are talking about there is a > catch in their words, as thought they are talking to the > universe,some times you may as well not be there. The groan of Water > is a determination to get to the end of the sentence and the end of > day. Nothing gets in their way like a river going down to the sea. > The tone stay the same unless it drop levels like a waterfall, then > moves off again. The shout of Wood is the sound of assertion, as > thought there is too much energy on the beginning of the word and it > dies away at the end or lack of shout where you feel you need to come > closer just to receive the communication. > > Again these take practice to see and hear but if you are interested > in treating someone at this deeper level it most certainly has its > rewards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: > Hello pete, > maybe you should buy a book, or maybe I should run a course..lol. > Ask 100 people who have lost a loved to tell you a bit a bit about their loss. > Some will manifest joy as they tell you > some will manifest grief > some will manifest fear > some will manifest anger > some will manifest sympathy > ................................. Grief is the appropriate emotion, anything > else is imbalanced. This is kind simplistic but it serves to illustrate. Then > tell that 100 ppl a joke - who laughs?, who doesn`t? - what emotion do they > manifest instead. Imbalanced emotions manifest inappropriately - the most > imbalanced emotion manifests most inappropriately, most often. Be 5 minutes > late for every patient - see who gets pissed off, who doesn`t - what do they > do instead. etc.etc. Observe! and Learn Hi Stephen! Between you and Gye I am getting the impression that 5 E is only appropriate with a long-term patient. The vacationer who wants to pop in for " acupuncture " and will be gone next week gets a cookbook treatment. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Okay, Gye: I enjoyed really your element descriptions until I got to this. Isn't anyone's conversation " all about them. " Does one go to a massage therapist and say, " let me tell you about my mother's problems " . I always wondered how earth gets pinned with this rather self centered label. I realize the earth needs to be fed because they have probably been feeding others for so long; or, have really had a lack of being fed early on (or both.) In school there was a real bias against earth CF's as whiny, clingy. Frankly, this is only one strand of earth. Stomach officials can be the most interesting people with their ability to process complex information and disseminate it to you. A spleen offiical can bring about the most incredible changes and transformations in their lives and in others. Just some thoughts - Anne Gye Bennetts wrote: > With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the > conversation is all about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 This, for me, is one of the biggest problems with the 'causative factor' type of five phase diagnosis. The potential for value judgments by the practitioner is very high, and this kind of diagnosis can be overly subjective. On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Anne Crowley wrote: > Okay, Gye: I enjoyed really your element descriptions until I got to > this. Isn't anyone's conversation " all about them. " Does one go to a > massage therapist and say, " let me tell you about my mother's > problems " . I always wondered how earth gets pinned with this rather > self centered label. I realize the earth needs to be fed because they > have probably been feeding others for so long; or, have really had a > lack of being fed early on (or both.) > > In school there was a real bias against earth CF's as whiny, clingy. > Frankly, this is only one strand of earth. > Stomach officials can be the most interesting people with their > ability > to process complex information and disseminate it to you. A spleen > offiical can bring about the most incredible changes and > transformations > in their lives and in others. > > Just some thoughts - > > Anne > > Gye Bennetts wrote: > >> With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the >> conversation is all about them. Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// > toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > http:// > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 It actually isn't, Zev, any more than it is anywhere else. Diagnosis is rigorous - CSOE. And if you move away from 'causative' factor to 'constitutional' factor, as is happening now, the definitions become clearer and more comprehensive. I think it's worth remembering that we 5E practitioners are so excited that Pete has been asking about this medicine that we're trying to teach it by email, always a risky business. Karen wrote: >This, for me, is one of the biggest problems with the 'causative >factor' type of five phase diagnosis. The potential for value >judgments by the practitioner is very high, and this kind of >diagnosis can be overly subjective. > > >On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Anne Crowley wrote: > > > >>Okay, Gye: I enjoyed really your element descriptions until I got to >>this. Isn't anyone's conversation " all about them. " Does one go to a >>massage therapist and say, " let me tell you about my mother's >>problems " . I always wondered how earth gets pinned with this rather >>self centered label. I realize the earth needs to be fed because they >>have probably been feeding others for so long; or, have really had a >>lack of being fed early on (or both.) >> >>In school there was a real bias against earth CF's as whiny, clingy. >>Frankly, this is only one strand of earth. >>Stomach officials can be the most interesting people with their >>ability >>to process complex information and disseminate it to you. A spleen >>offiical can bring about the most incredible changes and >>transformations >>in their lives and in others. >> >>Just some thoughts - >> >>Anne >> >>Gye Bennetts wrote: >> >> >> >>> With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the >>>conversation is all about them. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// >>toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 >> >> http:// >> and adjust >>accordingly. >> >>Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside >>the group requires prior permission from the author. >> >>Please consider the environment and only print this message if >>absolutely necessary. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Echo...echo...echo... CSOE are as solid as pulse qualities stephen Quoting karen <tryfan: > It actually isn't, Zev, any more than it is anywhere else. Diagnosis is > rigorous - CSOE. And if you move away from 'causative' factor to > 'constitutional' factor, as is happening now, the definitions become > clearer and more comprehensive. I think it's worth remembering that we > 5E practitioners are so excited that Pete has been asking about this > medicine that we're trying to teach it by email, always a risky business. > > Karen > > wrote: > > >This, for me, is one of the biggest problems with the 'causative > >factor' type of five phase diagnosis. The potential for value > >judgments by the practitioner is very high, and this kind of > >diagnosis can be overly subjective. > > > > > >On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Anne Crowley wrote: > > > > > > > >>Okay, Gye: I enjoyed really your element descriptions until I got to > >>this. Isn't anyone's conversation " all about them. " Does one go to a > >>massage therapist and say, " let me tell you about my mother's > >>problems " . I always wondered how earth gets pinned with this rather > >>self centered label. I realize the earth needs to be fed because they > >>have probably been feeding others for so long; or, have really had a > >>lack of being fed early on (or both.) > >> > >>In school there was a real bias against earth CF's as whiny, clingy. > >>Frankly, this is only one strand of earth. > >>Stomach officials can be the most interesting people with their > >>ability > >>to process complex information and disseminate it to you. A spleen > >>offiical can bring about the most incredible changes and > >>transformations > >>in their lives and in others. > >> > >>Just some thoughts - > >> > >>Anne > >> > >>Gye Bennetts wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the > >>>conversation is all about them. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// > >>toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > >> > >> http:// > >> and adjust > >>accordingly. > >> > >>Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > >>the group requires prior permission from the author. > >> > >>Please consider the environment and only print this message if > >>absolutely necessary. > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 You are right, Karen, e-mail is a risky business when it comes to diagnosis. I try to avoid it as well. And I agree, constitutional factor is a much less judgmental and more comprehensive way to look at health. On Feb 2, 2006, at 4:02 PM, karen wrote: > It actually isn't, Zev, any more than it is anywhere else. > Diagnosis is > rigorous - CSOE. And if you move away from 'causative' factor to > 'constitutional' factor, as is happening now, the definitions become > clearer and more comprehensive. I think it's worth remembering > that we > 5E practitioners are so excited that Pete has been asking about this > medicine that we're trying to teach it by email, always a risky > business. > > Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 more so, really, since pulse qualities seem to be more mutable. karen stephenmacallan wrote: >Echo...echo...echo... >CSOE are as solid as pulse qualities > >stephen > >Quoting karen <tryfan: > > > >>It actually isn't, Zev, any more than it is anywhere else. Diagnosis is >>rigorous - CSOE. And if you move away from 'causative' factor to >>'constitutional' factor, as is happening now, the definitions become >>clearer and more comprehensive. I think it's worth remembering that we >>5E practitioners are so excited that Pete has been asking about this >>medicine that we're trying to teach it by email, always a risky business. >> >>Karen >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>This, for me, is one of the biggest problems with the 'causative >>>factor' type of five phase diagnosis. The potential for value >>>judgments by the practitioner is very high, and this kind of >>>diagnosis can be overly subjective. >>> >>> >>>On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:02 AM, Anne Crowley wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Okay, Gye: I enjoyed really your element descriptions until I got to >>>>this. Isn't anyone's conversation " all about them. " Does one go to a >>>>massage therapist and say, " let me tell you about my mother's >>>>problems " . I always wondered how earth gets pinned with this rather >>>>self centered label. I realize the earth needs to be fed because they >>>>have probably been feeding others for so long; or, have really had a >>>>lack of being fed early on (or both.) >>>> >>>>In school there was a real bias against earth CF's as whiny, clingy. >>>>Frankly, this is only one strand of earth. >>>>Stomach officials can be the most interesting people with their >>>>ability >>>>to process complex information and disseminate it to you. A spleen >>>>offiical can bring about the most incredible changes and >>>>transformations >>>>in their lives and in others. >>>> >>>>Just some thoughts - >>>> >>>>Anne >>>> >>>>Gye Bennetts wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>With Earth people the sing happens over the length of the word, the >>>>>conversation is all about them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http:// >>>>toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 >>>> >>>> http:// >>>> and adjust >>>>accordingly. >>>> >>>>Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside >>>>the group requires prior permission from the author. >>>> >>>>Please consider the environment and only print this message if >>>>absolutely necessary. >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Having taught many pulse seminars and classes to students over the last fifteen years, I have to disagree. I've observed a high level of consensus when I've checked and cross-checked pulse evaluations again and again. When pulse technique and qualities are learned appropriately, with clear english definitions and referrals to Chinese sources, they are not as mutable as many seem to think. On Feb 2, 2006, at 5:10 PM, karen wrote: > more so, really, since pulse qualities seem to be more mutable. > karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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