Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hi Everybody! If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her 5 element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach ball. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 hi, uuhhh... 5 element diagnosis is diagnosed reliably, only with colour, sound, odour and emotion - very overweight and roundy is often earth-type, but NOT always - could equally well be fire with screaming child. stephen > Hi Everybody! > > If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her 5 > element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach ball. > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Maybe you could look at the shape of the hands and feet? Jamie petetheisen wrote: > Hi Everybody! > > If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her 5 > element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach ball. > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 stephenmacallan wrote: Hi Stephen! The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health care at my clinic. We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can never connect the dots. Regards, Pete > hi, uuhhh... 5 element diagnosis is diagnosed reliably, only with > colour, sound, odour and emotion - very overweight and roundy is > often earth-type, but NOT always - could equally well be fire with > screaming child. > > stephen > >> Hi Everybody! >> >> If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her >> 5 element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach >> ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Whartenby! wrote: > Maybe you could look at the shape of the hands and feet? > > Jamie Hi Jamie! Fat, swollen typically. Sometimes pitting edema, sometimes non-pitting or just plain fat. Thinking of several patients here, including one new case I will be posting presently. Regards, Pete > > petetheisen wrote: > > >> Hi Everybody! >> >> If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her >> 5 element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach >> ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi Pete - there is most definitely an odor, tho this is the trickiest to discern. It is not body odor, it is an energetic odor. The big problem is we have to relearn to smell, or allow our noses to do their jobs. Think about how often you turn away from a questionable/powerful odor. We start young and teach ourselves not to smell. If you start concentrating on not turning away from an objectionable odor, and then really smell it, you will begin to detect odor in your patients. Each Element has an odor. When the patient is relatively healthy, 'rancid' actually smells like a pine forest, or a lumber yard. In other words, quite pleasant. (It's that translation thing.) But the odor is there. Karen petetheisen wrote: >stephenmacallan wrote: > >Hi Stephen! > >The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are >people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health >care at my clinic. > >We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, >none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a >historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can >never connect the dots. > >Regards, > >Pete > > >>hi, uuhhh... 5 element diagnosis is diagnosed reliably, only with >>colour, sound, odour and emotion - very overweight and roundy is >>often earth-type, but NOT always - could equally well be fire with >>screaming child. >> >>stephen >> >> >> >>>Hi Everybody! >>> >>>If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her >>>5 element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach >>>ball. >>> >>> > > > > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi there, everyone, but everyone, has an odour, not a B.O. but an odour - tis why chanel no.5 smells slightly different from one person to the next. If you wanna work with odours then consciously `sniff` 10 people every day and categorise what you smell (scorched, fragrant, rotten, putrid, rancid) for 1 year and it`ll come together. Sniff `underneath` the cosmetics. regards stephen Quoting petetheisen <petetheisen: > stephenmacallan wrote: > > Hi Stephen! > > The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are > people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health > care at my clinic. > > We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, > none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a > historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can > never connect the dots. > > Regards, > > Pete > > hi, uuhhh... 5 element diagnosis is diagnosed reliably, only with > > colour, sound, odour and emotion - very overweight and roundy is > > often earth-type, but NOT always - could equally well be fire with > > screaming child. > > > > stephen > > > >> Hi Everybody! > >> > >> If the patient is 100+ pounds overweight, how can you tell his/her > >> 5 element body type? Slightly pointy head? The head is like a beach > >> ball. > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Great suggestion Stephen. I might add, if you are unclear about these odors at first, just write down what you do smell, whatever is familar to you. I was in a mentor group once at school where we were practicing this sniffing thing. The head of the mentor group after sniffing me, said " I smell, I smell, fresh water. " I had been swimming at the Columbia aquatic center that morning. He was probably smelling chlorine. I ask people not to wear fragrances or wash their hair in strong fragrances, or use fragrant hand lotion. At least in the early treatments, this helps you to discern the smell better. If someone smells rotton - may inquire into what they had for lunch. If it's garlic and/or onions, that is the smell you will pick up. Maybe they are not having a particularly metal day. The other CSOE should confirm what you are picking up. Another trick, Pete, is to leave the room. Get a good smell of how the area is outside the room. Then walk back in the tx room, consciously picking up the odor. Just let it come to you, don't force it.. As you get more use to these smells, you will be in the middle of treating a patient and you will say to yourself, " there's putrid. " Smell is a very powerful diagnositic tool for the 5E's. If you are committed to the patterns, the 5E diagnosis can confirm or add to your diagnosis. Anne stephenmacallan wrote: > Hi there, > everyone, but everyone, has an odour, not a B.O. but an odour > - tis > why chanel no.5 smells slightly different from one person to the next. > If you > wanna work with odours then consciously `sniff` 10 people every day and > categorise what you smell (scorched, fragrant, rotten, putrid, rancid) > for 1 > year and it`ll come together. Sniff `underneath` the cosmetics. > > regards > > stephen > > Quoting petetheisen <petetheisen: > > > stephenmacallan wrote: > > > > Hi Stephen! > > > > The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are > > people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health > > care at my clinic. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 karen wrote: > Hi Pete - there is most definitely an odor, tho this is the trickiest to > discern. It is not body odor, it is an energetic odor. The big problem > is we have to relearn to smell, or allow our noses to do their jobs. > Think about how often you turn away from a questionable/powerful odor. > We start young and teach ourselves not to smell. If you start > concentrating on not turning away from an objectionable odor, and then > really smell it, you will begin to detect odor in your patients. > > Each Element has an odor. When the patient is relatively healthy, > 'rancid' actually smells like a pine forest, or a lumber yard. In other > words, quite pleasant. (It's that translation thing.) But the odor is > there. Hi Karen! I have never shied away from any objectionable odor. Do you know what red tide smells like? How about dead fish? How about dead people? I have smelled all of these. I can smell things no one else can smell, by the way. But the patients who come to me do not smell. I have a number of friends who smell, but not patients. If any patient had come to me smelling of a pine forest I would have noticed that. Actually I am quite sensitive to odors, and the patients who have come to me have not had any odors at all. Well, there was one lady who was wearing perfume and another guy who had after shave, but pine forest (or paper mill!), no What does the scorched, putrid and so on smell like, if rancid smells like pine forest. Not to forget " goatish " , either. > > Karen > > petetheisen wrote: > > >>stephenmacallan wrote: >> >>Hi Stephen! >> >>The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are >>people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health >>care at my clinic. >> >>We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, >>none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a >>historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can >>never connect the dots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hi pete, scorched - burnt things - burnt toast, burnt rubber, burnt wood fragrant - mown grass, sweet, can be sweet-yuk, hay, grains, vomit rotten - foul poo, nice poo (like a breast-fed baby`s) putrid - stagnant water/ponds etc - can be foul/can be nice rancid - rancid butter, cheese, sharp, urine, pine> regards stephen > What does the scorched, putrid and so on smell like, if rancid smells > like pine forest. Not to forget " goatish " , either. > > > > Karen > > > > petetheisen wrote: > > > > > >>stephenmacallan wrote: > >> > >>Hi Stephen! > >> > >>The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are > >>people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health > >>care at my clinic. > >> > >>We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, > >>none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a > >>historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can > >>never connect the dots. > > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 two things come to mind, and I'll think about this some more: when you smell a red tide, etc, what do you do? sort of how does your nose react? secondly, try moving around the room. Odors correspond to the energetics of the element: Fire rises, Metal sinks, etc. Scorched (which can smell like wet ashes or sheets drying in the sun) tends to be high in the room. Fragrant (cloying to a flower garden) tends to be everywhere, takse a bit to come up but when it does you can smell it even after the patient leaves the room. Rotten (a nice mulch to decaying - actually, hard for me to describe, but someone else may be able to) is closer to the floor. Putrid (ozone-y, sometimes like someone burning off alcohol, the beach at low tide) generally near the floor. Rancid (pine to bad oil) is rising, tends to 'hit' you in the face. We began to learn about odor by grouping people w/the different CFs in a room together. I remember walking into a Water room and thinking it smelled like a dirty fish tank. Please don't think that I get odor on everyone. sometimes I don't get it til the patient has left the room, sometimes walking down the hall after them, sometimes I don't get it at all. Maybe it's less a reaction (like smelling the tide) and more a proactive thing that the nose needs to be educated to. Karen petetheisen wrote: >karen wrote: > > >>Hi Pete - there is most definitely an odor, tho this is the trickiest to >>discern. It is not body odor, it is an energetic odor. The big problem >>is we have to relearn to smell, or allow our noses to do their jobs. >>Think about how often you turn away from a questionable/powerful odor. >>We start young and teach ourselves not to smell. If you start >>concentrating on not turning away from an objectionable odor, and then >>really smell it, you will begin to detect odor in your patients. >> >>Each Element has an odor. When the patient is relatively healthy, >>'rancid' actually smells like a pine forest, or a lumber yard. In other >>words, quite pleasant. (It's that translation thing.) But the odor is >>there. >> >> > >Hi Karen! > >I have never shied away from any objectionable odor. Do you know what >red tide smells like? How about dead fish? How about dead people? I have >smelled all of these. I can smell things no one else can smell, by the >way. But the patients who come to me do not smell. I have a number of >friends who smell, but not patients. > >If any patient had come to me smelling of a pine forest I would have >noticed that. Actually I am quite sensitive to odors, and the patients >who have come to me have not had any odors at all. Well, there was one >lady who was wearing perfume and another guy who had after shave, but >pine forest (or paper mill!), no > >What does the scorched, putrid and so on smell like, if rancid smells >like pine forest. Not to forget " goatish " , either. > > >>Karen >> >>petetheisen wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>stephenmacallan wrote: >>> >>>Hi Stephen! >>> >>>The patients *never* have any odor at all in the states. There are >>>people in the states who do have odors, but they do not ever seek health >>>care at my clinic. >>> >>>We did not discuss " fire with screaming child " in 5 E class. Of course, >>>none of the profs actually believed in 5 E, it was only presented as a >>>historical curiosity. I include 5 E questions in my intake, but I can >>>never connect the dots. >>> >>> > > > > > >Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > and adjust accordingly. > > > >Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 digging into my past experience working w/horses, wet hay smells sweet, and it clings a bit. I'd vote for fragrant. Karen stephenmacallan wrote: >hi there, > dunno what acetylene gas smells like, but wet hay could be fragrant >or possibly putrid. > >stephen > > > > >>A question for all the smell specialists: >> >>I have been trying to diagnose a friend (he's about 60 yrs old) long-distance >> >>who has been suffering with what seems to be either osteoarthritis or perhaps >> >>rheumatoid arthristis or Lyme disease. He's had all the test and they are >>inconclusive. In the dialogue via e-mail he mentioned to me that his body >>now >>has an unusual smell to him. He described it as smelling like acetylene gas >> >>(he used to be a scultptor) or perhaps the smell of wet hay. I was thinking >> >>of it just as 'damp', but does this sound more specific to any of you? >>Would this be a putrid smell? >> >>thanks in advance, >>RoseAnne >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Anne Crowley wrote: Hi Anne! <snip> > if you are unclear about these odors at first, just write down what > you do smell I do, I write down that I smell nothing. :-) > if someone smells rotton - may inquire into what they had for lunch. > If it's garlic and/or onions Garlic and onions is " rotton " ? I eat garlic and onions all the time! > leave the room. Get a good smell of how the area is outside the > room. Then walk back in the tx room, consciously picking up the > odor. I have been in and out of treatment rooms for 10 years. I smell disinfectant, Po Sum On, moxa and the occasional flatus. Might I suggest that someone capture these odors and do a scientific chemical analysis on them? Then they could be scratch and sniff synthesized and a benchmark could be clearly established. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 ra6151 wrote: > A question for all the smell specialists: > > I have been trying to diagnose a friend (he's about 60 yrs old) long-distance > who has been suffering with what seems to be either osteoarthritis or perhaps > rheumatoid arthristis or Lyme disease. He's had all the test and they are > inconclusive. In the dialogue via e-mail he mentioned to me that his body now > has an unusual smell to him. He described it as smelling like acetylene gas > (he used to be a scultptor) or perhaps the smell of wet hay. I was thinking > of it just as 'damp', but does this sound more specific to any of you? > Would this be a putrid smell? Hi RoseAnne! I have used acetylene, its smell is in the direction of what I would call putrid, but I am the one who doesn't know what putrid is. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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