Subject: Digest Number 1257 Needling through stockings

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:22:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

twylahoodah writes:

 

swiping with alcohol does nothing, just another ritual " ....

 

 

 

 

Peter Hoffman

clinical scientist

Central Public Health

Laboratory

_phoffman_ (phoffman)

Summary

The need for skin disinfection before insertion of

an acupuncture needle is controversial and there is

no specific research on this topic. However

research and observations on the effect of, and the

need for, skin disinfection before injections forms

a good analogy of acupuncture. Whilst microorganisms

present on the surface of the skin are

accessible to disinfection, those located under the

surface in ducts, glands and follicles are out of

reach and can be inoculated into the sterile tissues

below by needle insertion. Fortunately, the

bacteria resident on the skin have a low potential

to cause infection if host immunity is not severely

impaired or compromised by the long-term

presence of foreign material, such as a surgical

stitch. Disinfection of clean skin before

injection is not generally considered necessary

and observations of lack of infection

following injections without prior skin

disinfection support this; however, contamination

by micro-organisms not normally resident on

skin can pose a higher risk of infection. If

skin is visibly soiled, it should be washed and if

needle insertion is near an infected or

contaminated site, it should be disinfected with

alcohol.

Practitioner hand hygiene between patients is

important, even if gloves are worn. Hands should

be washed with soap or detergent and water, or an

alcohol handrub can be used if hands are

physically clean.

Keywords

Acupuncture, skin disinfection, handwashing.

Introduction

The Microbiology of Skin

Skin is an inhospitable environment; it is dry,

salty, acidic and there are few readily-available

nutrients. The most fertile area of the skin is the

outermost layer, but this surface is constantly

being sloughed off and replaced by lower layers.

An assortment of glands, follicles and ducts that

go deep into the skin are also home to many

microbes. As with many other microbial niches,

competition between colonising species is severe

and established species will exclude most

potential newcomers.

Total bacterial counts on the skin’s surface

range from around 10 to 1,000,000 per square

centimetre, but typically around 1,000. These

bacteria are mostly present within microscopic

colonies, typically composed of a few hundred

bacteria, but which can contain up to 10,000

bacterial cells.1 However, if the bacteria found in

the ducts, glands and follicles below the skin’s

surface are taken into account by using a biopsy

sampling method, the numbers recovered are

around ten-fold higher than by sampling just the

surface;2 so most of the skin’s microbial

inhabitants are hidden from all but the most

invasive of sampling methods. Passing a needle

through the skin is thus one of the most searching

methods of ‘sampling’ its microbial population.

Microbes on the skin can be divided into two

groups: those that live and replicate on the skin,

known as the skin’s ‘resident microflora’, and

those that are not long-term residents but whose

presence results from recent contamination,

termed ‘transient microflora’.

Skin Disinfection and Acupuncture

Peter Hoffman

ACUPUNCTURE IN MEDICINE 2001;19(2):112-116.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/23/2006 5:22:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

twylahoodah writes:

 

swiping with alcohol does nothing, just another ritual " ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

_http://www.richardwellsresearch.com/richardwells/pdfs and documents/BJIC -

Point-Counterpoint (cutaneous antisepsis & injecti.._

(http://www.richardwellsresearch.com/richardwells/pdfs%20and%20documents/BJIC%20\

-%20Point-Counterpoint

%20(cutaneous%20antisepsis%20 & %20injections)%20Aug05.pdf)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

_Skin Disinfection and Acupuncture_

(http://www.medical-acupuncture.co.uk/journal/2001(2)/112.shtml)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Some of you would be surprise to know thay General Douglas McArthur is

the one responible for our CNT.

In 1945 Douglas McArthur ordered the Japanese Government to ban

acupuncture as a barbarous and unscientific. It was due to the fact

that some Japanese soldiers used acupuncture or moxibustion POWs

because of medical supply shortage, but the POWs took it as some sort

of torture, and some of those Japanese soldiers were then indicted as

war criminals.

To get the right back to use acupuncture the acupuncturists got

together in guilds and with the help of some curious Western Doctors

they made it more western and scientific. So by adopting clean

techniques from surgery procedures and with some scientists trying to

prove certain scientific facts on the effectiveness of acupuncture and

moxibustion, McArthur rescinded the order.

 

Kelvin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

>

> In order for alcohol to disinfect it must be in place for over two

minutes. So the kind of swiping we do does nothing but move the germs

around

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

> Twyla Hoodah

> Chinese Medicine

> Monday, January 23, 2006 9:52 AM

> Re: Re: Digest Number 1257 Needling

through stockings

>

>

> Alon:

>

> Could you please explain further... " ....swiping with alcohol

does nothing, just another ritual " ....

>

> Thanks, TH

> <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> By the way swiping with alcohol does nothing, just another ritual

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

> petetheisen

> Chinese Medicine

> Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:18 PM

> Re: Re: Digest Number 1257 Needling

through stockings

>

>

> wrote:

> > Rachel

> > By the way needling through clothing was done in the 80s when

i was in china.

>

> Hi Dr. Alon!

>

> Oh, this brings back a memory. We has an ever-so-sweet little lady

> interning with us. This was the sort of lady who, if anyone were

to say

> anything off color in her presence, she in all innocence

wouldn't have

> known what it meant.

>

> One day she had to do some deep needling into one of the points

on the

> tush of a male patient and she stuck the needles right through

his under

> drawers, too modest to pull them down and clean the point with

> alcohol/cotton like everybody else always does. This was *not*

in China,

> and *not* in the 80s!

>

> I was " assisting " her. I whispered to her in pinyin chinglish

(that I

> hoped the patient would not understand if he overheard:

>

> " Uh, crean needer . . . "

>

> She whispered back that it was ok, Dr. Shao always does it like

that

> (Dr. Shao later denied it), you wouldn't expect me to pull his

> *underpants* down would you? I guess *not*!

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

>

>

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

and

adjust accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

the group requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if

absolutely necessary.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thx Stan and Kevin for the info.....As for McArthur...I will reserve my

comments. I often wondered about those quick swabs......

 

acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

 

Some of you would be surprise to know thay General Douglas McArthur is

the one responible for our CNT.

In 1945 Douglas McArthur ordered the Japanese Government to ban

acupuncture as a barbarous and unscientific. It was due to the fact

that some Japanese soldiers used acupuncture or moxibustion POWs

because of medical supply shortage, but the POWs took it as some sort

of torture, and some of those Japanese soldiers were then indicted as

war criminals.

To get the right back to use acupuncture the acupuncturists got

together in guilds and with the help of some curious Western Doctors

they made it more western and scientific. So by adopting clean

techniques from surgery procedures and with some scientists trying to

prove certain scientific facts on the effectiveness of acupuncture and

moxibustion, McArthur rescinded the order.

 

Kelvin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

>

> In order for alcohol to disinfect it must be in place for over two

minutes. So the kind of swiping we do does nothing but move the germs

around

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

> Twyla Hoodah

> Chinese Medicine

> Monday, January 23, 2006 9:52 AM

> Re: Re: Digest Number 1257 Needling

through stockings

>

>

> Alon:

>

> Could you please explain further... " ....swiping with alcohol

does nothing, just another ritual " ....

>

> Thanks, TH

> <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> By the way swiping with alcohol does nothing, just another ritual

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

> petetheisen

> Chinese Medicine

> Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:18 PM

> Re: Re: Digest Number 1257 Needling

through stockings

>

>

> wrote:

> > Rachel

> > By the way needling through clothing was done in the 80s when

i was in china.

>

> Hi Dr. Alon!

>

> Oh, this brings back a memory. We has an ever-so-sweet little lady

> interning with us. This was the sort of lady who, if anyone were

to say

> anything off color in her presence, she in all innocence

wouldn't have

> known what it meant.

>

> One day she had to do some deep needling into one of the points

on the

> tush of a male patient and she stuck the needles right through

his under

> drawers, too modest to pull them down and clean the point with

> alcohol/cotton like everybody else always does. This was *not*

in China,

> and *not* in the 80s!

>

> I was " assisting " her. I whispered to her in pinyin chinglish

(that I

> hoped the patient would not understand if he overheard:

>

> " Uh, crean needer . . . "

>

> She whispered back that it was ok, Dr. Shao always does it like

that

> (Dr. Shao later denied it), you wouldn't expect me to pull his

> *underpants* down would you? I guess *not*!

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

>

>

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

and

adjust accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

the group requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if

absolutely necessary.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I needed better use a surgical scrub, alcohol really does very little

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

KarateStan

Chinese Medicine

Monday, January 23, 2006 3:27 PM

Re: Re: Digest Number 1257 Needling through stockings

 

 

_Skin Disinfection and Acupuncture_

(http://www.medical-acupuncture.co.uk/journal/2001(2)/112.shtml)

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/24/2006 1:31:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

alonmarcus writes:

 

needed better use a surgical scrub, alcohol really does very little

 

 

 

I use alcohol, but do not use isopropyl. I use Everclear (aka grain alcohol).

It does not smell like isopropyl, is the same percent, I believe it is a

healthier away to " clean " the area and still comply with CNT.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I use alcohol, but do not use isopropyl. I use Everclear (aka grain alcohol).

It does not smell like isopropyl, is the same percent, I believe it is a

healthier away to " clean " the area and still comply with CNT.