Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, < wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) < Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Rachel has been banned from the group. It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as well. I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea Beth Damsky 23 January 2006 03:41 Chinese Medicine Re: TCM List going down the tubes? Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, < wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) < Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I number of people have jumped on Rachel's case, but look at her background she was doing what she was taught to do in law school. Who do we turn to when the chips are down? We need those people that are very good at keeping the wolfs away. But a number of people in this profession have an ostrich mentality. But I think a few heads have come out of the sand. Maybe this group just had some growing pains. Feel better now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I felt better initially when this discussion began. I am on the Executive Committee of our state acupuncture association and see the importance of gaining the attention of ALL acupuncturists regarding the important issues that were raised. What began as a valuable wake-up call and discussion unfortunately devolved into slash and burn rhetoric and character assassination. I realize that a sharp tongue often goes with legal training, but I know plenty of attorneys who realize the importance of making a point without alienating their audience. It's important to have impassioned legal representation - but not if it turns on you. I believe a majority of the people in this group checked out when the many other valuable discussions (and purpose of this group) were attacked. It's a shame that ego and hateful sarcasm had to, in my opinion, completely overshadow the positive aspects at the beginning of this dialogue. Take care - Kim Blankenship, L.Ac., MSOM KarateStan wrote: I number of people have jumped on Rachel's case, but look at her background she was doing what she was taught to do in law school. Who do we turn to when the chips are down? We need those people that are very good at keeping the wolfs away. But a number of people in this profession have an ostrich mentality. But I think a few heads have come out of the sand. Maybe this group just had some growing pains. Feel better now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 THANK YOU!! - Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM RE: TCM List going down the tubes? Rachel has been banned from the group. It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as well. I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries<enquiries (AT) chinesemedicinetimes (DOT) \ com> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea Beth Damsky 23 January 2006 03:41 To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Re: TCM List going down the tubes? Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, <<> wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) <<> <http://homepage.eircom.net/~pro\ gers/vaplinks.htm> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar.thebizpl\ ace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> <http://groups.ya\ hoo.com> and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Thank you for your patience with this, Attilio. Anne Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Rachel has been banned from the group. > > It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness > that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that > confronted > her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as > well. > > I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > Editor > Times > 07786 198900 > enquiries > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea > Beth Damsky > 23 January 2006 03:41 > Chinese Medicine > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has > recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track > around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing > religious > content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. > > Blessings, > > > < wrote: > Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, > > The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and > research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has > become an embarrassment. > > In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective > and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I > am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. > > If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully > ask you > to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. > > I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove > flamers from this list. > > Best regards, > > HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) > < > > <http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eprogers/vaplinks.htm> > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion Oakland, CA 94609 - Linda Gruber Chinese Medicine Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM Re: TCM List going down the tubes? THANK YOU!! - Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM RE: TCM List going down the tubes? Rachel has been banned from the group. It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as well. I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries<enquiries (AT) chinesemedicinetimes (DOT) \ com> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea Beth Damsky 23 January 2006 03:41 To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> Re: TCM List going down the tubes? Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, <<> wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) <<> <http://homepage.eircom.net/~pro\ gers/vaplinks.htm> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar.thebizpl\ ace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> <http://groups.ya\ hoo.com> and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 wrote: > I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with > all. Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am > sure she would have clam down after a while and could add much to the > discussion > Hi Dr. Alon! It all happened very fast. It looks like " moderating " her was tried off list to no avail. I suppose if you have to moderate someone who makes many lengthy posts it would get old fast. Granted, she was a shrill voice. Regards, Pete > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > - > Linda Gruber Chinese Medicine Sent: > Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM Re: TCM List going > down the tubes? > > > THANK YOU!! - Attilio > D'Alberto<attiliodalberto To: > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine\ @> > Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM RE: TCM List > going down the tubes? > > > Rachel has been banned from the group. > > It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the > bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at > everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of > heated emails with her off list as well. > > I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Unless I worked in a mental institution, I wouldn't expect my patients to be so insulting, confront and challenge everything I say and take up so much of my time for no purpose. If I DID have a patient like that, I would probably send them away. I was proving pointless editing her lengthily messages. I actually cut out alot of the slander which would of caused so many more problems. I warned her, rejected her posts, support her posts, warned her again, but she just wasn't listening. To wake up and find 16 pending messages that need to be reviewed and half of them was just slander is not my idea of being a moderator. I can't spend all day editing someone's messages to the group. In the end, it just wasn't working. It was Mark that took the strong step and banned her. I was a step behind him. I think it was the best decision and have no regrets. You can always talk with the woman off list. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Alon Marcus DOM 24 January 2006 06:20 Chinese Medicine Re: TCM List going down the tubes? I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion Oakland, CA 94609 - Linda Gruber Chinese Medicine Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM Re: TCM List going down the tubes? THANK YOU!! - Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto To: Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi cine > Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM RE: TCM List going down the tubes? Rachel has been banned from the group. It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as well. I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries<enquiries@chinesemedicineti mes.com> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi cine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea Beth Damsky 23 January 2006 03:41 To: Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi cine > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, <<> wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) <<> <http://homepage.eircom.net/ ~progers/vaplinks.htm> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar.theb izplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> <http://group s.> and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 In a message dated 1/24/2006 3:08:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, alonmarcus writes: I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion Alon Marcus DOM I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I believe that Rachel is doing the right thing by challenging people to be more professional, more intelligent, and behave more like doctors. I would encourage her to continue to push for professionalism and doctor-like behaviors and attitudes, as this is most definitely one of the areas where our field is seriously lacking. However, I would note that, while professionalism includes direct and even harsh answers to and analysis of questions, contentions, and statements, it does not include resorting to ad hominem arguments. Ad hominem arguments are those that attack a person specifically (their appearance, character, a mistake they've made, or anything else about a person that is unrelated to their actual argument), and according to rules of logical reasoning, are invalid arguments. An intelligent debate is always good, but I would encourage Rachel, and anyone else, to refrain from attacking the person, as this is how feelings are hurt and rational thought begins to take a back seat. Instead, I would encourage everyone to feel free to attack any argument or comment made by anyone else, so long as you have reasonably attacked the argument and not the person making the argument. It is important to separate these concepts, as the avoidance of ad hominem arguments enhances professionalism, and encourages camaraderie. For when you appeal to feelings or prejudices instead of your intellect, then you do nothing but make enemies. But, in a setting of mature people, we can disagree vehemently, and still be friends. It is the arguer's charge to avoid ad hominem arguments; it is the opponent's charge to honestly consider good arguments. Some similar thoughts by others: " How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct. " Benjamin Disraeli, speech, January 24, 1860 " The Argument from Intimidation is a confession of intellectual impotence. " Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness " Good communication is as stimulating as black coffee and just as hard to sleep after. " Anne Morrow Lindbergh, Gift From the Sea Definition of " ad himinem " from Merriam-Webster (_www.m-w.com_ (http://www.m-w.com/) ) Main Entry: 1ad ho·mi·nem (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?adhom01w.wav=ad+hominem')) Pronunciation: (')ad-'hä-m & - " nem, -n & m Function: adjective Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person 1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect 2 : marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made I also sent this to Rachel, maybe she can come back and join us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Alon, I would tend to agree that we cannot ban all of us who might have a differing opinion and willingness to state it. Many of us either tend to agree with status quo or say nothing, her statements I think have been accurate as to our profession (do not agree with all the individual attacks). The only way that we are going to continue to have a profession is to include all or let others decide things for us. I would rather that we are able to control our own destiny. Let's not be afraid to discuss difficult issues nor come up with solutions. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Alon, this list is not my practice and serves a different purpose. In my practice I am ethically bound to treat those patients that are a pain in the butt. But even these patients must be willing to accept the treatment I provide and show me respect. If they don't I ask them to find another practitioner or I will simply refuse to accept them as a patient. I've been on other lists where a single individual flames so much that the intent and quality of the whole list descend into chaos. I'm very glad and grateful to see that some control is imposed here to avoid such things from happening (water controls fire or the fire will consume all the wood). I'm all for civil and thoughtful disagreement, I'm even OK with heated discussion of the issues, but the volume of ad hominum attacks and cynicism that Rachel was presenting was inappropriate, unproductive and needed to stop. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Alon Marcus DOM Monday, January 23, 2006 11:20 PM Chinese Medicine Re: TCM List going down the tubes? I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion Oakland, CA 94609 - Linda Gruber Chinese Medicine Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM Re: TCM List going down the tubes? THANK YOU!! - Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto To: Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_ Medicine > Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM RE: TCM List going down the tubes? Rachel has been banned from the group. It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the bitterness that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that confronted her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list as well. I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries<enquiries@chinesemedici netimes.com> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.co m/>> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_ Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Andrea Beth Damsky 23 January 2006 03:41 To: Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_ Medicine > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it has recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off track around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing religious content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since then. Blessings, <<> wrote: Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has become an embarrassment. In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant invective and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far as I am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I respectfully ask you to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove flamers from this list. Best regards, HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) <<> <http://homepage.eircom. net/~progers/vaplinks.htm> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar. thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> <http://g roups.> and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Stan, She has been banned, which means that if she tries to join the group again, her membership request will automatically be rejected. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of KarateStan 24 January 2006 16:45 Chinese Medicine Re: TCM List going down the tubes? I also sent this to Rachel, maybe she can come back and join us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I agree 100% Attilio. Anyone can talk with her off list if you are compelled to get in that. Hanging in with patients that are a " pain in the ass' is a good thing. If anyone talked to me like that for very long - I would cut them loose. Sometimes people just have to STOP IT and stop the screaming child thing. If it doesn't stop, there are mental health professionals better qualified to deal with it. Anne Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Unless I worked in a mental institution, I wouldn't expect my patients > to be > so insulting, confront and challenge everything I say and take up so > much of > my time for no purpose. If I DID have a patient like that, I would > probably > send them away. > > I was proving pointless editing her lengthily messages. I actually cut out > alot of the slander which would of caused so many more problems. I warned > her, rejected her posts, support her posts, warned her again, but she just > wasn't listening. To wake up and find 16 pending messages that need to be > reviewed and half of them was just slander is not my idea of being a > moderator. I can't spend all day editing someone's messages to the > group. In > the end, it just wasn't working. > > It was Mark that took the strong step and banned her. I was a step behind > him. I think it was the best decision and have no regrets. You can always > talk with the woman off list. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > Editor > Times > 07786 198900 > enquiries > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Alon > Marcus DOM > 24 January 2006 06:20 > Chinese Medicine > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. > Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she > would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Linda Gruber > Chinese Medicine > Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > THANK YOU!! > - > Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto > To: > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > cine > > Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM > RE: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > Rachel has been banned from the group. > > It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the > bitterness > that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that > confronted > her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list > as > well. > > I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > Editor > Times > 07786 198900 > > enquiries<enquiries@chinesemedicineti > mes.com> > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > > > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > cine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > Andrea > Beth Damsky > 23 January 2006 03:41 > To: > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > cine > > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it > has > recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off > track > around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing > religious > content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since > then. > > Blessings, > > > <<> > wrote: > Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, > > The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and > research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has > become an embarrassment. > > In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant > invective > and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far > as I > am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. > > If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I > respectfully ask > you > to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. > > I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove > flamers from this list. > > Best regards, > > HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) > <<> > > > <http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eprogers/vaplinks.htm><http://homepage.eircom.net/ > ~progers/vaplinks.htm> > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar.theb > izplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> > > > > <http://group > s.> and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely > necessary. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 For those who feel they can just get rid of a patient, becareful. If you don't get them to someone else and do this in writing, your problem patient can sue you for abandonment. Kelvin Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <blazing.valley@v...> wrote: > > I agree 100% Attilio. Anyone can talk with her off list if you are > compelled to get in that. > > Hanging in with patients that are a " pain in the ass' is a good thing. > If anyone talked to me like that for very long - I would cut them > loose. Sometimes people just have to STOP IT and stop the screaming > child thing. If it doesn't stop, there are mental health professionals > better qualified to deal with it. > > Anne > > Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > > > Unless I worked in a mental institution, I wouldn't expect my patients > > to be > > so insulting, confront and challenge everything I say and take up so > > much of > > my time for no purpose. If I DID have a patient like that, I would > > probably > > send them away. > > > > I was proving pointless editing her lengthily messages. I actually cut out > > alot of the slander which would of caused so many more problems. I warned > > her, rejected her posts, support her posts, warned her again, but she just > > wasn't listening. To wake up and find 16 pending messages that need to be > > reviewed and half of them was just slander is not my idea of being a > > moderator. I can't spend all day editing someone's messages to the > > group. In > > the end, it just wasn't working. > > > > It was Mark that took the strong step and banned her. I was a step behind > > him. I think it was the best decision and have no regrets. You can always > > talk with the woman off list. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > > Editor > > Times > > 07786 198900 > > enquiries@c... > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Alon > > Marcus DOM > > 24 January 2006 06:20 > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > > > > I think it is a shame rachel was banned. I think we need to work with all. > > Do you just get rid of patients that are a pain in the ass? I am sure she > > would have clam down after a while and could add much to the discussion > > > > > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > > - > > Linda Gruber > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, January 23, 2006 5:10 PM > > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > > > > THANK YOU!! > > - > > Attilio D'Alberto<attiliodalberto> > > To: > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > > cine > > > Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 AM > > RE: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > > > > Rachel has been banned from the group. > > > > It was a shame as she raised some interesting issues, but the > > bitterness > > that came with it, the spitting of fire, insults at everyone that > > confronted > > her was intolerable. I had a number of heated emails with her off list > > as > > well. > > > > I'm sorry to say it, but good riddance. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. > > Editor > > Times > > 07786 198900 > > > > enquiries@c...<enquiries@chinesemedicineti > > mes.com> > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > > cine > > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > > Andrea > > Beth Damsky > > 23 January 2006 03:41 > > To: > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > > cine > > > Re: TCM List going down the tubes? > > > > > > Thank you, Phil. I agree wholeheartedly. If the list continues as it > > has > > recently, it will lose my participation as well. Seems we got off > > track > > around the first of the year, with the series of posts containing > > religious > > content. It's gotten increasingly inflammatory and repugnant since > > then. > > > > Blessings, > > > > > > <@e...<@e...>> > > wrote: > > Hi Attilio, Marc and Colleagues, > > > > The TCM List is for genuine TCM matters, especially clinical and > > research matters. It used to be one of the best on air. Now it has > > become an embarrassment. > > > > In the past week, the List has become a forum for intolerant > > invective > > and ad-hominem attacks that are wholly unacceptable to me. As far > > as I > > am concerned, it has become a waste of my time and band-space. > > > > If any of you have a beef with another Lister, could I > > respectfully ask > > you > > to email the relevant person OFF-LIST. > > > > I ask the Moderator to terminate the offending threads and remove > > flamers from this list. > > > > Best regards, > > > > HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > > Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) > > <@e...<@e...>> > > > > > > <http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eprogers/vaplinks.htm><http://homepage.eircom.net/ > > ~progers/vaplinks.htm> > > > > > > > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > > > > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145<http://toolbar.theb > > izplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145> > > > > > > > > <http://group > > s.> and adjust > > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > group > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > > absolutely > > necessary. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Kelvin: What are the rules where you are - California? I was always advised to give 3 references but I don't think it was mandatory. I was hard pressed to find 3 people I knew to refer to in my area. That has changed now. I thought that this was a suggested practice rather than required. I remember hearing of a case where an acupuncturist was charged with abandonment. She had some personal reason for stopping tx with the wife of a couple. The wife filed the complaint and the charge was abandoment because there were no other acupuncturists that she could go to in the area. I thought it was more related to there actually not being anyone else in the area to attend to her rather than her " not giving references. " Anne acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote: > For those who feel they can just get rid of a patient, becareful. If > you don't get them to someone else and do this in writing, your > problem patient can sue you for abandonment. > > Kelvin > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Check this out. http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2000/may/05schroeder.html Kelvin Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <blazing.valley@v...> wrote: > > Kelvin: > > What are the rules where you are - California? > > I was always advised to give 3 references but I don't think it was > mandatory. I was hard pressed to find 3 people I knew to refer to in my > area. That has changed now. I thought that this was a suggested > practice rather than required. I remember hearing of a case where an > acupuncturist was charged with abandonment. She had some personal > reason for stopping tx with the wife of a couple. The wife filed the > complaint and the charge was abandoment because there were no other > acupuncturists that she could go to in the area. I thought it was more > related to there actually not being anyone else in the area to attend to > her rather than her " not giving references. " > > Anne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.