Guest guest Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Rachel, Thank you for your well-written piece on what is happening at our schools and in our profession. I personally went to a California school and was surrounded by the same people that you describe in your post! As a graduate from a " real " university, I too was shocked that a Bachelor's degree was not even required. I graduated Highest Honors in Biology from the University of California, with grades to get me into the med school of my choice, and chose, instead, our profession because I *believe* in it and am passionate about it. I was not the norm. I, personally, do not believe that one need have a bachelor's in some form of pre-med science.. however, like med schools do, requiring a bachelors in *anything* and then requiring that certain classes be taken, regardless of whether you're a chem major or an english major, may be the ticket. Biology, General Chemistry, and Biochemistry is where I'd start. We do need to take our entrance requirements more seriously. We are not doing ourselves, our profession, or these wayward students any favors by allowing in people who do not have the academic rigor to succeed. I heard non-stop complaints about the difficulty of the CA board exam, arguably rumored to be the most difficult in the country, and found it to be totally appropriate to the material we covered and need to know. In fact, a longer exam would even be justifiable (not necessarily more difficult, just covering more material each term). As an educator myself - I put myself through school teaching MCAT General Chemistry and LSAT (Law School Admissions) exams at the Princeton Review, I must say that many professors were not up to par! Some were phenomenal, and those I followed through each class I could possibly take with them, but many were as incapable of instructing as many students were of learning! This is an unsustainable state, and I fear what Rachel describes in her post - of being " supervised " because we are not trusted to supervise ourselves. Bachelors degree requirement, absolutely. Doctorate level entry, please! We need to take our reputation seriously. The climate is different now than it was 10 or even 5 years ago. I think we can attract serious students in larger numbers than we now are. Many who choose Osteopathy or Chiropractic now may be more interested in OM if it is a respected course of study. Now please understand me, that is not to say, attract more biomedicine drones to turn our profession into WM's red headed step-child. I do not think that the failed actor population and the biomedical drone population are the only two we can draw from! University has the ability to shape practitioners, and the more we draw in passionate, educated, thoughtful students, and then teach them how to think in the OM style, the stronger our profession will become. As an instructor, my experience has been, expect it, and you will receive it. Students want structure.. they want expectations. Most people are in the habit of playing to the lowest common denominator... most will do only what is required.. and if they can slack off with a little less, then they do that. The lower we set the bar, the lower still our students will go. I will write, show up at meetings, teach, jump up and down, whatever it takes to support our profession and each honest practitioner in it.. bachelor's degree or no. We can find strength in eachother despite our widely divergent backgrounds, and we can respect that the profession years ago had different standards that *worked* for the students at that time who are now practitioners and have probably supplemented their education with clinical experience and more self-study without undermining the fact that we need different standards now. Sincerely, Nadia Haddad, L.Ac PS. I am a California educated practitioner who is now in Colorado - Let's see how I do! :> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 East Dakota wrote: <snip> > I will write, show up at meetings, teach, jump up and down, Hi Nadia! Well, I don't think jumping up and down will help anything, unless you bill it as a qi gong demonstration or something. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 What good does a bachelor's degree do in regards to O.M. skill? None, you could have a degree in economics, whatever...Better to require a degree in medicine than " anything " that is just a waste of time and money, you're saying to take some sciences, ok...In France you have to be an MD to practice acupuncture... Chinese Medicine , " East Dakota " <eastdakota@h...> wrote: > > > Rachel, > > Thank you for your well-written piece on what is happening at our schools > and in our profession. I personally went to a California school and was > surrounded by the same people that you describe in your post! As a graduate > from a " real " university, I too was shocked that a Bachelor's degree was not > even required. I graduated Highest Honors in Biology from the University of > California, with grades to get me into the med school of my choice, and > chose, instead, our profession because I *believe* in it and am passionate > about it. I was not the norm. > > I, personally, do not believe that one need have a bachelor's in some form > of pre-med science.. however, like med schools do, requiring a bachelors in > *anything* and then requiring that certain classes be taken, regardless of > whether you're a chem major or an english major, may be the ticket. Biology, > General Chemistry, and Biochemistry is where I'd start. > > We do need to take our entrance requirements more seriously. We are not > doing ourselves, our profession, or these wayward students any favors by > allowing in people who do not have the academic rigor to succeed. I heard > non-stop complaints about the difficulty of the CA board exam, arguably > rumored to be the most difficult in the country, and found it to be totally > appropriate to the material we covered and need to know. In fact, a longer > exam would even be justifiable (not necessarily more difficult, just > covering more material each term). > > As an educator myself - I put myself through school teaching MCAT General > Chemistry and LSAT (Law School Admissions) exams at the Princeton Review, I > must say that many professors were not up to par! Some were phenomenal, and > those I followed through each class I could possibly take with them, but > many were as incapable of instructing as many students were of learning! > This is an unsustainable state, and I fear what Rachel describes in her post > - of being " supervised " because we are not trusted to supervise ourselves. > > Bachelors degree requirement, absolutely. Doctorate level entry, please! We > need to take our reputation seriously. The climate is different now than it > was 10 or even 5 years ago. I think we can attract serious students in > larger numbers than we now are. Many who choose Osteopathy or Chiropractic > now may be more interested in OM if it is a respected course of study. Now > please understand me, that is not to say, attract more biomedicine drones to > turn our profession into WM's red headed step-child. I do not think that the > failed actor population and the biomedical drone population are the only two > we can draw from! University has the ability to shape practitioners, and the > more we draw in passionate, educated, thoughtful students, and then teach > them how to think in the OM style, the stronger our profession will become. > > As an instructor, my experience has been, expect it, and you will receive > it. Students want structure.. they want expectations. Most people are in the > habit of playing to the lowest common denominator... most will do only what > is required.. and if they can slack off with a little less, then they do > that. The lower we set the bar, the lower still our students will go. > > I will write, show up at meetings, teach, jump up and down, whatever it > takes to support our profession and each honest practitioner in it.. > bachelor's degree or no. We can find strength in eachother despite our > widely divergent backgrounds, and we can respect that the profession years > ago had different standards that *worked* for the students at that time who > are now practitioners and have probably supplemented their education with > clinical experience and more self-study without undermining the fact that we > need different standards now. > > Sincerely, > Nadia Haddad, L.Ac > > PS. I am a California educated practitioner who is now in Colorado - Let's > see how I do! :> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Jason, What " good " does a bachelor's degree " do " in regards to practicing *allopathic* medicine? Why don't they dump the bachelor's requirement and let totally unprepared individuals enter allopathic medical school? If you view a standard education as a waste of time, then you haven't bothered to read any previous posts, some by experienced instructors, trying to patiently explain what " good " college prerequisite courses " do " . A bachelors degree standard would ensure that the individuals entering TCM schools have taken sufficient relevant prerequisites to guarantee that students will perform well in classes, and not continue to require the schools to " dumb down " the curriculum for all of the poorly prepared students. Apparently, you missed all of those discussions, as well. If you can't understand the difference between a bachelor's degree reqirement (which includes the requisite number of science courses) and a degree in economics with NO science courses, then I'm not sure ANYONE here can help you with your questions. What they do in France is irrelevant to the discussion of U.S. TCM schools, since France has totally different laws governing the practice of TCM. Italy requires embalming of dead human bodies to be performed by M.D.s as well, but that is just as irrelevant to the practice of undertaking in the United States, as discussions of France's alleged TCM laws requiring an M.D. to practice have to the TCM academic requirements here in the United States. If they are unable to articulate the reasons that colleges have certain admission standards (yet another series of posts you apparently missed), find someone at another school. Or go back and read some of the previous posts on this listserv, or, politely ask one of the nice TCM instructors on this listserv why TCM schools, like any other programs, need to require prerequisites. I'd recommend Z'ev who has taught at San Diego for many years. He's already discussed this issue ad nauseum, but perhaps he would be willing to talk to you offline so you will feel less frustrated about what you have been reading. Best Regards, Rachel Chinese Medicine , " jasonwcom " <jasonwcom> wrote: > > What good does a bachelor's degree do in regards to O.M. skill? > None, you could have a degree in economics, whatever...Better to > require a degree in medicine than " anything " that is just a waste of > time and money, you're saying to take some sciences, ok...In France > you have to be an MD to practice acupuncture... > > Chinese Medicine , " East Dakota " > <eastdakota@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Rachel, > > > > Thank you for your well-written piece on what is happening at our > schools > > and in our profession. I personally went to a California school and > was > > surrounded by the same people that you describe in your post! As a > graduate > > from a " real " university, I too was shocked that a Bachelor's > degree was not > > even required. I graduated Highest Honors in Biology from the > University of > > California, with grades to get me into the med school of my choice, > and > > chose, instead, our profession because I *believe* in it and am > passionate > > about it. I was not the norm. > > > > I, personally, do not believe that one need have a bachelor's in > some form > > of pre-med science.. however, like med schools do, requiring a > bachelors in > > *anything* and then requiring that certain classes be taken, > regardless of > > whether you're a chem major or an english major, may be the ticket. > Biology, > > General Chemistry, and Biochemistry is where I'd start. > > > > We do need to take our entrance requirements more seriously. We are > not > > doing ourselves, our profession, or these wayward students any > favors by > > allowing in people who do not have the academic rigor to succeed. I > heard > > non-stop complaints about the difficulty of the CA board exam, > arguably > > rumored to be the most difficult in the country, and found it to be > totally > > appropriate to the material we covered and need to know. In fact, a > longer > > exam would even be justifiable (not necessarily more difficult, > just > > covering more material each term). > > > > As an educator myself - I put myself through school teaching MCAT > General > > Chemistry and LSAT (Law School Admissions) exams at the Princeton > Review, I > > must say that many professors were not up to par! Some were > phenomenal, and > > those I followed through each class I could possibly take with > them, but > > many were as incapable of instructing as many students were of > learning! > > This is an unsustainable state, and I fear what Rachel describes in > her post > > - of being " supervised " because we are not trusted to supervise > ourselves. > > > > Bachelors degree requirement, absolutely. Doctorate level entry, > please! We > > need to take our reputation seriously. The climate is different now > than it > > was 10 or even 5 years ago. I think we can attract serious students > in > > larger numbers than we now are. Many who choose Osteopathy or > Chiropractic > > now may be more interested in OM if it is a respected course of > study. Now > > please understand me, that is not to say, attract more biomedicine > drones to > > turn our profession into WM's red headed step-child. I do not think > that the > > failed actor population and the biomedical drone population are the > only two > > we can draw from! University has the ability to shape > practitioners, and the > > more we draw in passionate, educated, thoughtful students, and then > teach > > them how to think in the OM style, the stronger our profession will > become. > > > > As an instructor, my experience has been, expect it, and you will > receive > > it. Students want structure.. they want expectations. Most people > are in the > > habit of playing to the lowest common denominator... most will do > only what > > is required.. and if they can slack off with a little less, then > they do > > that. The lower we set the bar, the lower still our students will > go. > > > > I will write, show up at meetings, teach, jump up and down, > whatever it > > takes to support our profession and each honest practitioner in > it.. > > bachelor's degree or no. We can find strength in eachother despite > our > > widely divergent backgrounds, and we can respect that the > profession years > > ago had different standards that *worked* for the students at that > time who > > are now practitioners and have probably supplemented their > education with > > clinical experience and more self-study without undermining the > fact that we > > need different standards now. > > > > Sincerely, > > Nadia Haddad, L.Ac > > > > PS. I am a California educated practitioner who is now in Colorado - > Let's > > see how I do! :> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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