Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 In a message dated 1/13/2006 3:48:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ptf1 writes: as the deep needling since it tightens the muscle. I'm not sure we can think this way. Do you have a source for this thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Does anyone have any insight into why my patient had a bilateral tightness/soreness in her tibialis anterior muscles after acupuncture of ST36? She’s an exercise physiologist and she identified the problem as in those muscles. Patient came in feeling considerably more stressed than usual. Her patterns: Lv qi depressn, L & SP Qi vacuity w/some dampness, K yang vacuity. (I can give P and T, if needed.) MC: asthma, gastrointestinal bloating and irreg BM’s. Tx: Du 20, L7, CV12, CV6, ST36, SP6, LV3 Needles at ST36 were inserted ½-3/4” deep. Even technique. No Qi was obtained. Patient felt neither qi nor discomfort during session or just after. Treatment helped her stress. An hour or so after treatment she noted feeling slightly light-headed and the tightness in t.a.’s set in around then. She said she hadn’t performed any strenuous activities before or after the treatment. That evening she taught a class with stretching and noted afterwards that stretching felt good and helped the tightness/soreness slightly. It took 2+ days for the discomfort to disappear, meanwhile even walking was uncomfortable. The only thing I’ve seen anything like this was with deep needling of GB30 in a woman with moderate ‘sciatica.’ When she stepped on the clutch pedal (leaving the building) she felt a sharp pain in her buttock which took a couple days to go away completely. I had obtained qi on that point so I figured she’d had more vacuity than I’d realized and I’d over-stimulated the point. Or, I’d injured muscle tissue that was further injured with use. Any ideas? Thanks, Marian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 This might be due to the origin of this muscle being close to St36 and affected by the needle technique you used. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Marian Blum " <marianb >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > > adverse effect of acup >Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:35:04 -0800 > >Does anyone have any insight into why my patient had a bilateral >tightness/soreness in her tibialis anterior muscles after acupuncture of >ST36? She’s an exercise physiologist and she identified the problem as in >those muscles. > > > >Patient came in feeling considerably more stressed than usual. Her >patterns: >Lv qi depressn, L & SP Qi vacuity w/some dampness, K yang vacuity. (I can >give P and T, if needed.) > > > >MC: asthma, gastrointestinal bloating and irreg BM’s. > > > >Tx: Du 20, L7, CV12, CV6, ST36, SP6, LV3 > >Needles at ST36 were inserted ½-3/4” deep. Even technique. No Qi was >obtained. Patient felt neither qi nor discomfort during session or just >after. Treatment helped her stress. An hour or so after treatment she noted >feeling slightly light-headed and the tightness in t.a.’s set in around >then. She said she hadn’t performed any strenuous activities before or >after >the treatment. That evening she taught a class with stretching and noted >afterwards that stretching felt good and helped the tightness/soreness >slightly. It took 2+ days for the discomfort to disappear, meanwhile even >walking was uncomfortable. > > > >The only thing I’ve seen anything like this was with deep needling of GB30 >in a woman with moderate ‘sciatica.’ When she stepped on the clutch pedal >(leaving the building) she felt a sharp pain in her buttock which took a >couple days to go away completely. I had obtained qi on that point so I >figured she’d had more vacuity than I’d realized and I’d over-stimulated >the >point. Or, I’d injured muscle tissue that was further injured with use. > > > >Any ideas? > > > >Thanks, Marian > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I personally have experienced this. The spasms from deep needling caused muscle spasm that hobbled me. Now my acupuncturist only does shallow needling. My experience was with more than one acupuncturist over a number of years so I don't think it is an issue of technique. If we need tonification we do warming moxa. If the moxa gets too hot it will have the same effect as the deep needling since it tightens the muscle. P.T. Ferrance, L.Ac. - " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 <Chinese Medicine > Friday, January 13, 2006 2:29 PM RE: adverse effect of acup > This might be due to the origin of this muscle being close to St36 and > affected by the needle technique you used. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > " Marian Blum " <marianb > >Chinese Medicine > ><Chinese Medicine > > > adverse effect of acup > >Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:35:04 -0800 > > > >Does anyone have any insight into why my patient had a bilateral > >tightness/soreness in her tibialis anterior muscles after acupuncture of > >ST36? She’s an exercise physiologist and she identified the problem as in > >those muscles. > > > > > > > >Patient came in feeling considerably more stressed than usual. Her > >patterns: > >Lv qi depressn, L & SP Qi vacuity w/some dampness, K yang vacuity. (I can > >give P and T, if needed.) > > > > > > > >MC: asthma, gastrointestinal bloating and irreg BM’s. > > > > > > > >Tx: Du 20, L7, CV12, CV6, ST36, SP6, LV3 > > > >Needles at ST36 were inserted ½-3/4” deep. Even technique. No Qi was > >obtained. Patient felt neither qi nor discomfort during session or just > >after. Treatment helped her stress. An hour or so after treatment she noted > >feeling slightly light-headed and the tightness in t.a.’s set in around > >then. She said she hadn’t performed any strenuous activities before or > >after > >the treatment. That evening she taught a class with stretching and noted > >afterwards that stretching felt good and helped the tightness/soreness > >slightly. It took 2+ days for the discomfort to disappear, meanwhile even > >walking was uncomfortable. > > > > > > > >The only thing I’ve seen anything like this was with deep needling of GB30 > >in a woman with moderate ‘sciatica.’ When she stepped on the clutch pedal > >(leaving the building) she felt a sharp pain in her buttock which took a > >couple days to go away completely. I had obtained qi on that point so I > >figured she’d had more vacuity than I’d realized and I’d over-stimulated > >the > >point. Or, I’d injured muscle tissue that was further injured with use. > > > > > > > >Any ideas? > > > > > > > >Thanks, Marian > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Marian Blum, Does she run or bicycle regularly (meaning many miles or long time on treadmill)? --- Marian Blum <marianb wrote: > Does anyone have any insight into why my patient had > a bilateral > tightness/soreness in her tibialis anterior muscles > after acupuncture of > ST36? She’s an exercise physiologist and she > identified the problem as in > those muscles. > > > > Patient came in feeling considerably more stressed > than usual. Her patterns: > Lv qi depressn, L & SP Qi vacuity w/some dampness, K > yang vacuity. (I can > give P and T, if needed.) > > > > MC: asthma, gastrointestinal bloating and irreg > BM’s. > > > > Tx: Du 20, L7, CV12, CV6, ST36, SP6, LV3 > > Needles at ST36 were inserted ½-3/4” deep. Even > technique. No Qi was > obtained. Patient felt neither qi nor discomfort > during session or just > after. Treatment helped her stress. An hour or so > after treatment she noted > feeling slightly light-headed and the tightness in > t.a.’s set in around > then. She said she hadn’t performed any strenuous > activities before or after > the treatment. That evening she taught a class with > stretching and noted > afterwards that stretching felt good and helped the > tightness/soreness > slightly. It took 2+ days for the discomfort to > disappear, meanwhile even > walking was uncomfortable. > > > > The only thing I’ve seen anything like this was with > deep needling of GB30 > in a woman with moderate ‘sciatica.’ When she > stepped on the clutch pedal > (leaving the building) she felt a sharp pain in her > buttock which took a > couple days to go away completely. I had obtained qi > on that point so I > figured she’d had more vacuity than I’d realized and > I’d over-stimulated the > point. Or, I’d injured muscle tissue that was > further injured with use. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, Marian > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Personal experience as a client and an acupuncturist as well as the teachings of one of my professors in acupuncture school. - KarateStan Chinese Medicine Friday, January 13, 2006 4:12 PM Re: adverse effect of acup In a message dated 1/13/2006 3:48:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ptf1 writes: as the deep needling since it tightens the muscle. I'm not sure we can think this way. Do you have a source for this thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi Marian I for one would be interested in hearing about the pulse and tongue... esp if the tongue has edges with an orange tinge. Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Marian Blum " <marianb@r...> wrote: > > Does anyone have any insight into why my patient had a bilateral > tightness/soreness in her tibialis anterior muscles after acupuncture of > ST36? She's an exercise physiologist and she identified the problem as in > those muscles. > > > > Patient came in feeling considerably more stressed than usual. Her patterns: > Lv qi depressn, L & SP Qi vacuity w/some dampness, K yang vacuity. (I can > give P and T, if needed.) > > > > MC: asthma, gastrointestinal bloating and irreg BM's. > > > > Tx: Du 20, L7, CV12, CV6, ST36, SP6, LV3 > > Needles at ST36 were inserted ½-3/4 " deep. Even technique. No Qi was > obtained. Patient felt neither qi nor discomfort during session or just > after. Treatment helped her stress. An hour or so after treatment she noted > feeling slightly light-headed and the tightness in t.a.'s set in around > then. She said she hadn't performed any strenuous activities before or after > the treatment. That evening she taught a class with stretching and noted > afterwards that stretching felt good and helped the tightness/soreness > slightly. It took 2+ days for the discomfort to disappear, meanwhile even > walking was uncomfortable. > > > > The only thing I've seen anything like this was with deep needling of GB30 > in a woman with moderate `sciatica.' When she stepped on the clutch pedal > (leaving the building) she felt a sharp pain in her buttock which took a > couple days to go away completely. I had obtained qi on that point so I > figured she'd had more vacuity than I'd realized and I'd over- stimulated the > point. Or, I'd injured muscle tissue that was further injured with use. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, Marian > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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