Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 hi all, intrigued by the discussion on different formula lines and liquid tinctures, i explored the manufacturers listed in the posts. i was immediately struck by frustration when i came upon some formula lines in which the formulas were given completely new english names - not the english version of the chinese formula name. are these marketed mostly to the public? because if not, i spent years in school learning the chinese pin yin and also the english equivalent. i am not inclined to learn an additional english name for the product, no matter how beautiful, short, to the point, or relevant- and one that will be different than the next manufacturers poetic english name.. and so complicate my buying and administering experience. am i alone in this sentiment? i will pass by an entire product line just on this general principle. i know that some of the master herbalists who created many of these formulas are members of this group so i hope it goes without saying that no offense is intended. the names are very beautiful and descriptive, just not practical for me. and btw, for those concerned about alcohol in tinctures, i've found that asking your patient to add their prescribed tincture to a little bit of hot water and waiting a couple of seconds does the trick. the hot water will evaporate the alcohol. many blessings and good health, Nadia E. Haddad, L.Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Nadia, These are good, relevant questions. No apologies needed. I am a product developer for Kan Herb Company, and I agree with you 100%. I think that the original name of a classical prescription should be used and translated accurately. However, many of Kan's products, and those of other companies, are proprietary, in other words, original formulas for which new names can be chosen. On Jan 7, 2006, at 7:28 AM, East Dakota wrote: > hi all, > > intrigued by the discussion on different formula lines and liquid > tinctures, > i explored the manufacturers listed in the posts. i was immediately > struck > by frustration when i came upon some formula lines in which the > formulas > were given completely new english names - not the english version > of the > chinese formula name. > > are these marketed mostly to the public? because if not, i spent > years in > school learning the chinese pin yin and also the english > equivalent. i am > not inclined to learn an additional english name for the product, > no matter > how beautiful, short, to the point, or relevant- and one that will be > different than the next manufacturers poetic english name.. and so > complicate my buying and administering experience. > > am i alone in this sentiment? i will pass by an entire product line > just on > this general principle. > > i know that some of the master herbalists who created many of these > formulas > are members of this group so i hope it goes without saying that no > offense > is intended. the names are very beautiful and descriptive, just not > practical for me. > > and btw, for those concerned about alcohol in tinctures, i've found > that > asking your patient to add their prescribed tincture to a little > bit of hot > water and waiting a couple of seconds does the trick. the hot water > will > evaporate the alcohol. > > many blessings and good health, > Nadia E. Haddad, L.Ac > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi East, I, too am frustrated by all the renaming of formulas by many manufacturers. Not only does it make it hard to know what the formula is, it makes it hard to know who produces which formulas. Looking more closely at these products, it seems to me that a large number of those with new poetic names are renamed because they have been modified from the original formula. What is most confusing is when two manufacturers use the same, or similar, poetic name for two formulas that are completely dissimilar to each other in action or intent. East Dakota <eastdakota wrote: hi all, intrigued by the discussion on different formula lines and liquid tinctures, i explored the manufacturers listed in the posts. i was immediately struck by frustration when i came upon some formula lines in which the formulas were given completely new english names - not the english version of the chinese formula name. are these marketed mostly to the public? because if not, i spent years in school learning the chinese pin yin and also the english equivalent. i am not inclined to learn an additional english name for the product, no matter how beautiful, short, to the point, or relevant- and one that will be different than the next manufacturers poetic english name.. and so complicate my buying and administering experience. am i alone in this sentiment? i will pass by an entire product line just on this general principle. i know that some of the master herbalists who created many of these formulas are members of this group so i hope it goes without saying that no offense is intended. the names are very beautiful and descriptive, just not practical for me. and btw, for those concerned about alcohol in tinctures, i've found that asking your patient to add their prescribed tincture to a little bit of hot water and waiting a couple of seconds does the trick. the hot water will evaporate the alcohol. many blessings and good health, Nadia E. Haddad, L.Ac Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth Damsky <> wrote: > > Hi East, > > I, too am frustrated by all the renaming of formulas by many manufacturers. The ironic thing is that some people (such as Macioccia) write books for the textbook market, but then name the formulas by their own proprietary names so that their herb companies can profit off people who study from their textbook. If you are writing a book on Chinese medicine, it makes much more sense to simply use a translation of the classical formula name as the English formula name, rather than to obscure the true formula name so that your poetically named products sell better. If writing a textbook, one should broaden the knowledge of one's readership by using formula names that are applicable across all authors and publishers, rather than sacrificing the chance to improve education for the chance to make an extra buck. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Chinese Medicine , " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus> wrote: > > Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth > Damsky <> wrote: > > > > Hi East, > > > > I, too am frustrated by all the renaming of formulas by many > manufacturers. Bizarre as it sounds, many of those responsible for decisions on standard English terminology for CM in the PRC advocate no English formula names, but rather a cross of pinyin and English. In other words, the standard names would be liu wei di huang pill, gui zhi decoction, etc. Because most of the people in China who make decisions on standardized English terminology have minimal knowledge of the Western CM world, they are unaware of the fact that English names are often helpful for communication and education, since these formula names give us information about the meaning of the original formula name and many practitioners from the old generation in the West do not know pinyin. Not to mention the fact that few people able to pronounce pinyin correctly in the first place. Furthermore, the geniuses responsible for the naming conventions used in the PRC do not seem to realize that everyone who studies CM long enough to know gui zhi also knows that tang is a decoction, wan is a pill, san is a powder, etc. The half-pinyin, no English solution is hardly the brightest idea that has ever come out of China, but I guess we would not do much better if a bunch of Westerners who had no native Chinese speakers on board tried to create standardized terms for WM in Chinese for the Chinese without any Chinese input. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I agree, Eric. Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: The ironic thing is that some people (such as Macioccia) write books for the textbook market, but then name the formulas by their own proprietary names so that their herb companies can profit off people who study from their textbook. If you are writing a book on Chinese medicine, it makes much more sense to simply use a translation of the classical formula name as the English formula name, rather than to obscure the true formula name so that your poetically named products sell better. Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Z'ev, Andrea, Eric, and everyone else who responded, Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this frustration. I never meant to imply impropriety in the naming as I do understand that if a formula is sufficiently modified it is perfectly acceptable to name it as one sees fit. The question I suppose I'm asking is, should you? There is, if i remember correctly, a protocol in Chinese medicine using " Jia " to denote adding ingredients or simply " modified " if it is otherwise unwieldy to describe. (The formulas I'm referring to are the ones listed as " based on such and such traditional formula " in their description) By using standard names for formulas, just as having standard point numbers (none of this CAM/Shanghai mishmash), we foster unity in the community. We have a common language with which to discourse. And dare I say, patient wellness is an issue! The more variation in a system the more room for error... as Andrea said, some poetic renamings are potentially similar in different formula lines but describe completely different formulas! What a disaster and how much more vigilent must one be to avoid a complication such as this? Unless, of course, you're marketing directly to the general public and want a more colorful name to both describe the product and entice the patient, I don't see an added benefit to renaming, and I suppose therein lies my frustration - my thoughts are then, why put me through the learning curve to access your products? I suppose I feel personally taxed by the practice. Many blessings and good health, Nadia Haddad, L.Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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