Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hi all, Taken from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4429414.stm Scores of traditional Chinese medicine stores in Britain's high streets are being investigated for selling illegal medicines, the BBC has learned. Radio Five Live has discovered that 67 outlets selling Chinese medicines are under suspicion. It is estimated that 6,000 stores across the country offer treatment for conditions ranging from eczema to the menopause. But the industry, although growing in popularity, is largely unregulated. At the Herb Garden store in Leigh on Sea, Essex, an undercover reporter from the Five Live Report was two weeks ago sold a herbal slimming pill and told it contained rhubarb and honeysuckle. Tests showed it contained fenfluarmine - an illegal pharmaceutical considered to be so dangerous that it is banned in most countries worldwide, including the UK. The owner of the store, Anna Yang, was prosecuted earlier this year for illegally selling the same drug. She was fined £30,000 with another £20,000 in court costs. The maximum sentence for selling an illegal medicine is two years imprisonment. Prescription-only The BBC reporter was also sold two other prescription-only drugs - Danthron - a specialist laxative which has cancer causing properties and is only recommended for use with terminally ill patients, and Sibutramine - prescribed in cases of extreme obesity. Ms Yang said that she was concerned about the BBC's allegations. She said she was reliant on assurances from suppliers as to the contents of the products and had been in touch with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. She added that the products had now been withdrawn from sale. Danny Lee-Frost, head of enforcement at the MHRA, said: " There are huge amounts of money to be made in this area. " The main motivation is money. " He said unscrupulous traders were putting patient's lives at risk. The BBC has learned that several practitioners are currently facing prosecution, and another 63 stores are being investigated. David Woods visited Ms Yang in 2000 for acupuncture on his painful knees. He said: " She said I should lose a bit of weight and it would help my knees. " She said she had these new pills, really good pills and would I like some? So I said yes. " It ended up to be the equivalent of a class A drug. " Heart problems Since taking fenfluarmine David Woods has had a permanently damaged heart. " My heart used to slow down and speed up. I honestly thought I was dying. I have nothing to thank her for. Nothing. " Dr Karl Metcalfe, a consultant physician at Southend hospital said he has treated nine of Anna Yang's former patients but fears there may be more as some people may not have reported symptoms to their GPs. " For a medically qualified person to be issuing these drugs would be reprehensible. " For a non medically qualified person to be doing it is well very alarming and quite clearly criminal. " Kidneys removed In a separate case, Sandi Stay, of Hove, had to have both her kidneys removed after taking Aristochlia, a cancer causing herb which is banned across the UK. Mrs Stay said she went to a Chinese medicine store and was given the herb to treat her psoriasis. In her case the store which she claims sold her the drug was found not guilty because the jury accepted the store had taken measures to ensure its medicines did not contain Aristochlia. Dr Mark Thursz, a consultant physician at St Mary's Hospital in Paddington said he had seen a huge rise in the number of patients being referred to him with liver failure or hepatitis after taking Chinese herbal medicine. He said: " Many people believe herbal remedies are safe, but they should be seen in the light as conventional remedies in that they can adverse reactions. " When you get a box of pills you get a long list of potential side effects. " You don't get that with herbal remedies because practitioners try to make you believe they are safe. " Under current regulations Chinese medics are treated as shop keepers rather than traders, so in the same way a butcher prosecuted for selling bad meat would be allowed to continue trading so are they. Dr Jidong Wu, of the Association of Traditional Chinese medicine is calling for tighter regulation. He said " dodgy and fake " practitioners were damaging the image of Chinese medicine. AD: This is what is giving us a bad name. Unethical Chinese medicine practitioner!! Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor in Chief Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hello! One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese herbal medicine and acupuncture. Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hi Artemis, I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say what most people think, that it's mainly Chinese nationals that give the rest of us a bad name. Now let's wait for the kick-back. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor in Chief Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Artemis Papert 07 January 2006 18:46 Chinese Medicine Re: Chinese medicine outlets probed Hello! One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese herbal medicine and acupuncture. Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hi Attilio, Unfortunately I cannot disagree with you. I am sure the situation is different in other parts of the world. In the two cases I was mentioning it was Chinese nationals that were suggesting the herbs. There level of English was very limited. Artemis Hi Artemis, I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say what most people think, that it's mainly Chinese nationals that give the rest of us a bad name. Now let's wait for the kick-back. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Hello! One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese herbal medicine and acupuncture. Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hi, We're from the government, and we're here to help you. Especially those of you dumb enough to shove any old thing down your throat. That's why you can't get ma huang, xi xin, wei ling xian, and whatever we decide next. Did you know mu li is a biohazard? Yup. Tylenol is pretty dangerous, but that's okay. Now Aristochlia might or might not be dangerous, but we don't care. It's foreign. Katie bar the door - the nanny state is here. Bart Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Attilio D'Alberto Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:50 AM Chinese Medicine Chinese medicine outlets probed Hi all, Taken from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4429414.stm Scores of traditional Chinese medicine stores in Britain's high streets are being investigated for selling illegal medicines, the BBC has learned. Radio Five Live has discovered that 67 outlets selling Chinese medicines are under suspicion. It is estimated that 6,000 stores across the country offer treatment for conditions ranging from eczema to the menopause. But the industry, although growing in popularity, is largely unregulated. At the Herb Garden store in Leigh on Sea, Essex, an undercover reporter from the Five Live Report was two weeks ago sold a herbal slimming pill and told it contained rhubarb and honeysuckle. Tests showed it contained fenfluarmine - an illegal pharmaceutical considered to be so dangerous that it is banned in most countries worldwide, including the UK. The owner of the store, Anna Yang, was prosecuted earlier this year for illegally selling the same drug. She was fined £30,000 with another £20,000 in court costs. The maximum sentence for selling an illegal medicine is two years imprisonment. Prescription-only The BBC reporter was also sold two other prescription-only drugs - Danthron - a specialist laxative which has cancer causing properties and is only recommended for use with terminally ill patients, and Sibutramine - prescribed in cases of extreme obesity. Ms Yang said that she was concerned about the BBC's allegations. She said she was reliant on assurances from suppliers as to the contents of the products and had been in touch with the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. She added that the products had now been withdrawn from sale. Danny Lee-Frost, head of enforcement at the MHRA, said: " There are huge amounts of money to be made in this area. " The main motivation is money. " He said unscrupulous traders were putting patient's lives at risk. The BBC has learned that several practitioners are currently facing prosecution, and another 63 stores are being investigated. David Woods visited Ms Yang in 2000 for acupuncture on his painful knees. He said: " She said I should lose a bit of weight and it would help my knees. " She said she had these new pills, really good pills and would I like some? So I said yes. " It ended up to be the equivalent of a class A drug. " Heart problems Since taking fenfluarmine David Woods has had a permanently damaged heart. " My heart used to slow down and speed up. I honestly thought I was dying. I have nothing to thank her for. Nothing. " Dr Karl Metcalfe, a consultant physician at Southend hospital said he has treated nine of Anna Yang's former patients but fears there may be more as some people may not have reported symptoms to their GPs. " For a medically qualified person to be issuing these drugs would be reprehensible. " For a non medically qualified person to be doing it is well very alarming and quite clearly criminal. " Kidneys removed In a separate case, Sandi Stay, of Hove, had to have both her kidneys removed after taking Aristochlia, a cancer causing herb which is banned across the UK. Mrs Stay said she went to a Chinese medicine store and was given the herb to treat her psoriasis. In her case the store which she claims sold her the drug was found not guilty because the jury accepted the store had taken measures to ensure its medicines did not contain Aristochlia. Dr Mark Thursz, a consultant physician at St Mary's Hospital in Paddington said he had seen a huge rise in the number of patients being referred to him with liver failure or hepatitis after taking Chinese herbal medicine. He said: " Many people believe herbal remedies are safe, but they should be seen in the light as conventional remedies in that they can adverse reactions. " When you get a box of pills you get a long list of potential side effects. " You don't get that with herbal remedies because practitioners try to make you believe they are safe. " Under current regulations Chinese medics are treated as shop keepers rather than traders, so in the same way a butcher prosecuted for selling bad meat would be allowed to continue trading so are they. Dr Jidong Wu, of the Association of Traditional Chinese medicine is calling for tighter regulation. He said " dodgy and fake " practitioners were damaging the image of Chinese medicine. AD: This is what is giving us a bad name. Unethical Chinese medicine practitioner!! Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor in Chief Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 With all due respect, how is this different from health food store attendants hawking vitamin and herb products for all and every condition? As far as 'fat in the blood', this is just poor English language skills. .. .and a good dose of naivete. On Jan 7, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Artemis Papert wrote: > One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping > centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They > offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis > of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done > over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking > at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they > wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the > blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese > herbal medicine and acupuncture. > > Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Personally, I haven't seen any health food 'hawks' giving the hard sale to people. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M. M.A.T.C.M. Editor in Chief Times 07786 198900 enquiries <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Z'ev Rosenberg 08 January 2006 02:02 Chinese Medicine Re: Chinese medicine outlets probed With all due respect, how is this different from health food store attendants hawking vitamin and herb products for all and every condition? As far as 'fat in the blood', this is just poor English language skills. .. .and a good dose of naivete. On Jan 7, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Artemis Papert wrote: > One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping > centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They > offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis > of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done > over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking > at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they > wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the > blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese > herbal medicine and acupuncture. > > Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 While there are various levels of issues happening.....you can be SURE of one thing....that the system of allopaths & drug companies are certainly trying to knock out all of TCM or in the least make it greatly subservient in every way. Richard In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:40:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, HENCALIBAN writes: There is a great deal of differences, what is sold in Health Food shops is now regulated by the EU, including herbal medicines. A lot of the shops being discussed are selling the Chinese Herbs via CHinese Doctors with no way of really checking their credentials. We are currently awaiting regulation for both acupuncture practitioners and herbalists over here. The BBC reported recently a herbal mix being sold by one of these outlets for prevention of 'Bird Flu', when the herbal remedy was for flu and cold symptoms, so language is important. The problem is not affecting our reputatuion but those genuine CHinese doctors in the Chinese community as well. Helene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 There is a great deal of differences, what is sold in Health Food shops is now regulated by the EU, including herbal medicines. A lot of the shops being discussed are selling the Chinese Herbs via CHinese Doctors with no way of really checking their credentials. We are currently awaiting regulation for both acupuncture practitioners and herbalists over here. The BBC reported recently a herbal mix being sold by one of these outlets for prevention of 'Bird Flu', when the herbal remedy was for flu and cold symptoms, so language is important. The problem is not affecting our reputatuion but those genuine CHinese doctors in the Chinese community as well. Helene Chinese Medicine , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > > With all due respect, how is this different from health food store > attendants hawking vitamin and herb products for all and every > condition? As far as 'fat in the blood', this is just poor English > language skills. .. .and a good dose of naivete. > > > On Jan 7, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Artemis Papert wrote: > > > One of those chain CHinese Herbal stores had opened in a shopping > > centre in Aberdeen. I went a bit closer out of curiosity. They > > offered to sell me some herbal pills against my cold on the basis > > of me having a cold that made me prefer hot drinks! All this done > > over the counter and without asking any other questions! No looking > > at my tongue nor checking my pulse... In another chain shop they > > wnated to sell me something that was good for " fat in the > > blood " (????). Does not help give a good reputation to Chinese > > herbal medicine and acupuncture. > > > > Artemis > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Richard Just to clarify things - I totally agree with what you have indicated, The politics of all this is very complex with much deeper ramifications. Helene Chinese Medicine , acudoc11@a... wrote: > >le there are various levels of issues happening.....you can be SURE of one > thing....that the system of allopaths & drug companies are certainly trying > to knock out all of TCM or in the least make it greatly subservient in every > way. > > Richard > > In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:40:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, > HENCALIBAN@H... writes: > There is a great deal of differences, what is sold in Health Food > shops is now regulated by the EU, including herbal medicines. A lot > of the shops being discussed are selling the Chinese Herbs via > CHinese Doctors with no way of really checking their credentials. We > are currently awaiting regulation for both acupuncture practitioners > and herbalists over here. The BBC reported recently a herbal mix > being sold by one of these outlets for prevention of 'Bird Flu', when > the herbal remedy was for flu and cold symptoms, so language is > important. The problem is not affecting our reputatuion but those > genuine CHinese doctors in the Chinese community as well. > > > Helene > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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