Very low power laser as a substitute for needle-AP

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

A few colleagues on the lists have written that very low power lasers,

(even cheap 1.5mW laser-pen pointers) give excellent results,

especially in children.

 

I have difficulty in understanding how this could be so. I thought that one

should aim to use high power Class 3 range lasers because I learned

(from Pekka Pontinen and others) that laser (like any other

electromagnetic stimulus) has an OPTIMAL DOSE for biostimulation

and AP use.

 

For example, if an acupoint needs, say, 1-2 Joules (1000-2000 MW

seconds per session, a 1mW mean output laser would take 1000-2000

seconds to deliver that dose. In contrast, a 200mW mean output laser

would take 200 times less time (i.e. 5-10 seconds) to deliver the same

dose.

 

Would Listers expert in laser and physics please explain to me if / how

my reasoning is incorrect?

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt

man doing it "

[Guest guest]

Dear Phil,

 

Though many studies are pointing to the fact that laser treatment is dose

depended:

But there are certain aspects that need to be addressed when dealing with

laser acupuncture .

 

We have seen in clinical acupuncture practice that weak lasers also work

equally well when applied to acupuncture points.

 

 

We may note that laser therapy, laser acupuncture and acupuncture may be

similar names given to this modality of treatment but may not mean that the

mechanism of action and receptors are the same. They may have their common

mode of action and uncommon mode of action.

 

Here are some possibilities :

 

1. Acupuncture points are more sensitive to laser beam than when applied to

non acupuncture points, therefore needing lesser power input.

2. Different receptors are involved when stimulating acupoints and non

acupuncture points. As in the laser treatment we many time use non

acupoints, which may not have the required receptors therefore higher power

input is needed.

3. Laser treatment may influence acupuncture points due to its high number

of receptors and locations but does not mean that laser treatment is equal

to acupuncture treatment. There might be similarities in the field of how

they effect the body but they may have wide differences in the mechanism of

action.

4. Acupuncture points maybe stimulated by very low level laser irradiation

and up regulate the enkephalin.(lease see the following refernce) :

 

 

Giuliani A, Fernandez M, Farinelli M et al. Very low level laser therapy

attenuates edema and pain in experimental models. Int.J.Tissue React. 2004;

26: 29-37.

 

 

 

I hope this may have cleared some of the ideas and concepts.

 

Dr, Fadaie

MBBS.MD.LIC/AC

 

 

--\

---------

 

 

> " " <

>Chinese Medicine

>PVA-L , Pa-l

>CC: Chinese Medicine

> Very low power laser as a substitute for needle-AP

>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 03:15:59 -0000

>

>Hi All,

>

>A few colleagues on the lists have written that very low power lasers,

>(even cheap 1.5mW laser-pen pointers) give excellent results,

>especially in children.

>

>I have difficulty in understanding how this could be so. I thought that one

>should aim to use high power Class 3 range lasers because I learned

>(from Pekka Pontinen and others) that laser (like any other

>electromagnetic stimulus) has an OPTIMAL DOSE for biostimulation

>and AP use.

>

>For example, if an acupoint needs, say, 1-2 Joules (1000-2000 MW

>seconds per session, a 1mW mean output laser would take 1000-2000

>seconds to deliver that dose. In contrast, a 200mW mean output laser

>would take 200 times less time (i.e. 5-10 seconds) to deliver the same

>dose.

>

>Would Listers expert in laser and physics please explain to me if / how

>my reasoning is incorrect?

>

>

>Best regards,

>

>Email: <

>

>WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

>Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>

>HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

>Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

>

>Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt

>man doing it "

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Phil, Majid and Hi All,

Thanks for the input. First of all I’ll explain the

difference between “LASER THERAPY & LASER

ACUPUNCTURE”. They are generally thought as same. It

is not so as laser therapy is a kind of physical

medicine based on using low power lasers (620 – 950

nm) on the affected parts of the body to treat

different conditions mostly pain, inflammation, sports

injuries and dental diseases. This is totally dose

dependent and high power lasers are more effective

than low power lasers (daily or even twice daily

treatment sessions). Laser acupuncture that what we

are practicing here is based on using low power lasers

to stimulate acupoints and scalp areas. This treatment

like traditional acupuncture is holistic in nature and

is not totally does e dependent. If it was so, then

inserting a lot of needles in to the body would have

given better results. We all know that inserting fewer

needles at correct places gives better results than

inserting more needles and gap treatment like once or

twice a week sessions are more effective (generally).

So when we stimulate acupoints with low power lasers

we get dual benefit laser stimulation causes

biostimulation at the site of application and

activation of a specific acupoint leads to other

specific changes corresponding to that particular

acupoint. Acupuncture points are more sensitive to

laser beam than when applied to non acupuncture

points, therefore needing lesser power input.

We have treated and documented over 550 children and

400 adults suffering from cerebral palsy, stroke and

associated neurological disorders in last 4 years. We

are using different laser systems like:

OMEGA XP with 30 mW 675 nm and 200 mW 915 nm probes.

THOR DD2 with 200 mW 660 nm and 450 nm 810 nm probes.

Simple and cheap 5 mW 650 nm laser pointers.

We did not find any appreciable difference between the

high power expensive laser units and the cheap laser

pointers regarding the improvement in our patients.

Yes 915 nm 200 mW probe used at high frequencies of 5

– 10 K makes difference in patients who suffer from

advanced arthritis and disabilities where cheap 5 mW

low power laser are less or non effective in relieving

the disabilities and contractures. But apart from this

the results are very much comparable. We have not

performed any comparative studies with different laser

systems. We’ll plan a comparative study in cerebral

palsy and stroke patients using different laser

systems for different groups. I suggest if similar

studies could be conducted at other clinics in

different parts of the world.

Finally I would say that low power or very low power

lasers are not the substitute for traditional needle

AP but these offer some help to the acupuncturists for

those patients who are afraid of needles and very

young infants whose parents are afraid of the needles.

This adds up to our armory against the disease.

Best regards,

Dr. Shahzad Anwar

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> A few colleagues on the lists have written that very

> low power lasers,

> (even cheap 1.5mW laser-pen pointers) give excellent

> results,

> especially in children.

>

> I have difficulty in understanding how this could be

> so. I thought that one

> should aim to use high power Class 3 range lasers

> because I learned

> (from Pekka Pontinen and others) that laser (like

> any other

> electromagnetic stimulus) has an OPTIMAL DOSE for

> biostimulation

> and AP use.

>

> For example, if an acupoint needs, say, 1-2 Joules

> (1000-2000 MW

> seconds per session, a 1mW mean output laser would

> take 1000-2000

> seconds to deliver that dose. In contrast, a 200mW

> mean output laser

> would take 200 times less time (i.e. 5-10 seconds)

> to deliver the same

> dose.

>

> Would Listers expert in laser and physics please

> explain to me if / how

> my reasoning is incorrect?

>

>

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <

>

> WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin,

> Ireland

> Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:

> 0]

> WWW :

> http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

>

> Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done,

> should not interrupt

> man doing it "

>

>

 

 

Dr Shahzad Anwar

M.B.B.S(Pak.), DipA/C(Pak.)

Lic.A/C(China),

IFFATANWAR MEDICAL ACUPUNCTURE COMPLEX

www.iamac.org

AnwarShah's

First C.P & Paralysis Clinic and Research Center

www.firstcpcenter.org

17-C, MAIN BOULEVARD FAISAL TOWN, LAHORE

PAKISTAN.

Ph.No.(Mobile):00 92 300 9400049

Fax No.:00 1 209 8855677

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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