Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. Thanks, Gabrielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Gabrielle, What are her Stomach and Bladder pulses like? Can you describe her diet for me? Thanks, Mark Quoting gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu: > I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. > She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is > listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of > fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is > close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It > is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back > asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in > the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will > not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she > urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it > inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being > able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking > about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? > Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her > tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red > papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. > > Thanks, > Gabrielle > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hello, have you considered plain old dehydration with consequent mineral deficiency? stephen > I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. > She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is > listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of > fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is > close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It > is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back > asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in > the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will > not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she > urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it > inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being > able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking > about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? > Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her > tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red > papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. > > Thanks, > Gabrielle Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 I would look at fluids with electrolytes to deal with the headache & frequent urination. You're going to want to work to support her kidneys and bladder. It would be good to also look at the types and amount of protein in her diet. Quoting gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu: > I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. > She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is > listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of > fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is > close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It > is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back > asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in > the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will > not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she > urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it > inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being > able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking > about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? > Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her > tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red > papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. > > Thanks, > Gabrielle Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 What herbs/formula are you currently giving her? What meds is she currently taking? What is her diet like/possible allergies? Bob www.acuherbals.com gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu wrote: I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. Thanks, Gabrielle Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 this is how the pattern looks like based on what you wrote: > 27 year old female a yin qi or Blood problem > who is not improving at all internal congealment, stasis, hidden pathogen, sunken > She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin yin type again, Blood Deficiency > Her manner is listless yang consumed, yin hidden > Hx of drug abuse and depression a substance which went counter clockwise from Fire to Wood an injectant > She complains as well of fatigue points to Earth, but could be part of larger picture > She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is > close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left what an absolutely gorgeous symptom Phlegm!! almost certainly stuck in LV vessel terminating branch > It is in a fixed location Phlegm revisited > She feels sleepy during the day and falls back asleep, with the result > that it is worse an Extraordinary Channel problem things are getting hairy > She is awake and " hyper " in the evening here is a time frame vs open channel conjunction: 3 P to 5 P - UB 5 P to 7 P - K both feed Wood again on the opposite side of horary clock: 3 A to 5 A - LU 5 A to 7 A - LI looks like a red herring let's throw away the former and garner the latter - *pattern provisional* LU Metal marauding on LV Wood this is borne out by Metal running between 3 A to 7 A in a state of congealment, rusted, tarnished, giving rise to the phenomenal 'flux' in evening hours at the other arc of the Qi Wheel between 3 P to 7 P > Her medications are of limited assistance this is Phlegm and stagnative in nature and Deep and begs for a pattern based diagnosis > Also, she will not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she > urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it > inconveniences her very obviously a Metal Mother not feeding Water Child *pattern emergent* LU Metal marauding on LV Wood with Phlegm in Head along LV vessel track > I have tried many different things without being > able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking > about burning moxa at DU20 which is to say you would like to Heat a Phlegm lodged in head which is likely seething with inherent heat of it's own? > Has anyone tried this? and lived to tell about it? > Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position almost certainly this is her pertinent pulse profile: a. R cun choppy scattered vague shifted laterally split autumn was the time to feel this, it's winter now so that picture will have to suffice b. L guan may or may not show wiry this is because it is the second phase and the Phlegm might overlay on the wiry L chi will be weak sunken deep but will have the customary mild Stony of the Winter Pulse look for Stomach in all pulses, the matter will sink or swim by that feel > Her tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red > papules. purplish - LV, unless it were Cold thick Coat - LV on ST no liquids you mean Dry - you bet, it's all about LU primary red papules - this is an odd note, unless there are more signs of LV Heat, please tell me she is not settling into LV Fire > The veins underneath are not engorged. will in the longer run when LV does a tertiary on SP OK can you confirm this pattern? can you also watch the patient hawk eye fashion? her system is about to do something precipitate Dr. Holmes Keikobad Baccalaureate in Medicine & Surgery Diplomate in Public Health & Hygiene Diplomate in Acupuncture NCCAOM Licensed Acupuncturist AZ & CO Clinician Community Acupuncture Clinic Clinical Director Acupuncture CEUS on DVD CD www.acu-free.com. Toll Free 1.888.TRU.SELF <878.7353> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Gabrielle, In addition to some deficiencies, what stands out to me is the possbility of blood stasis with this stubborn headache. Have you investigated this? Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu wrote: I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. Thanks, Gabrielle Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Hello Gabrielle: This may cause a disturbance in the group but I have found that most migraine headaches, while helped with acupuncture and herbal treatments, are caused by a subluxation of C1 and C2 of the neck. This affects the workings of the 12 crainial nerves which come back out of the sheath at this point to go back into the skull.Needling Fengchi will relax the muscles and may relieve the headache or change the symptoms but it takes an adjustment of the upper neck to release it completely. I have found that the way a person sleeps is usually the cause of this as many wake with their headache in the morning. Other things can trigger the problem as they increase the pressures and further reduce the space these nerves have to reside in. This comes from my background in Chiropractic which I learned before I had known about TCM. Sometimes it takes more than needles and herbs. The other Kidney yin problems can be treated with TCM very effectively. Aqupoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Hi Gabrielle, she may not be `underweight`, but on a diet like that she`s starving to death - most overweight/over-eating people are starving to death, their body is starving of some nutrients (often EFA`s) and they eat the wrong stuff so they don`t get those nutrients so they`re hungry (for something) and they `fill up` on the wrong stuff. stephen ------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hi Gabrielle, Is the patient in touch with her anger? Migraine and depression shout ANGER to me!... Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 >You surprised me that she is 'Hyper' at night time, might be an idea to >see which 'Zang Fu' are most optimal at those times.... > Hyper during Gall Bladder / Liver time by any chance? Artemis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hi Gabrielle Migraines are often a side effect of the contraceptive pill. Check whether there is any link between onset of migraine symptoms and going on the pill or a change in the pill. No point looking to treat with acupuncture if the cause is something so simple (which it often is). Regards Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 gabriellemathieu wrote: > I have a 27 year old female who is not improving at all. > She is thin and seems to be pale for her ethnic origin.Her manner is > listless. Hx of drug abuse and depression. She complains as well of > fatigue. She seems to never totally get rid off the headache, which is > close to the vertex, just slightly posterior to DU 20 on the left. It > is in a fixed location. She feels sleepy during the day and falls back > asleep, with the result that it is worse. She is awake and " hyper " in > the evening. Her medications are of limited assistance. Also, she will > not drink any liquids except the herb tea prescription, because she > urinates quite often, about every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours, and it > inconveniences her. I have tried many different things without being > able to help her headache (or the frequent urination) and am thinking > about burning moxa at DU20. Has anyone tried this? > Her pulses continue to be weak, especially in the Kidney position. Her > tongue is purplish-red with a thick coat (no liquids), and red > papules. The veins underneath are not engorged. Hi Gabrielle! If she were my patient I would ask if she had any recent blood work. It could be that some of her numbers are off, such as sugar. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.