UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting sued/prosecuted

November 4, 2005

Hi people.

Does anyone know of any good books/articles/websites etc (or even

some good old-fashined plain information! ) that give advice to

complementary therapists (in particular practitioners of

acupuncture/herbalism/therapeutic massage) to help them avoid

getting prosecuted / sued in the UK?

I'm thinking in particular of " claims to cure " and alternative ways

of communicating this, eg:

- claims to treat

- claims that CM " has been used successfully to treat xyz " .

- making no claim, but simply quoting (personally phrased) summaries

of abstracts of research.

- etc, etc, ...

Both colleges where I studied and the two professional bodies that I

belong to were/are woefully inadequate in this area. I've just spent

an hour on Google, and there seems to be stuff relating to the US,

but nothing to do with the UK.

I can't afford to hunt down a specialist lawyer at this moment -

though if I have to I obviously will.

Many thanks if you can help!

David

November 4, 2005

Hi

These are things your association should explain to you. If they don't their

not doing their job. It should be set out in the association's code of

conduct, which you should have a copy. Otherwise look at the Medicine Act.

Warm regards,

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M.

Company Director

The Earth Health Clinic

0208 367 8378

enquiries

<http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David

Gordon

04 November 2005 13:23

Chinese Medicine

UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting sued/prosecuted

Hi people.

Does anyone know of any good books/articles/websites etc (or even

some good old-fashined plain information! ) that give advice to

complementary therapists (in particular practitioners of

acupuncture/herbalism/therapeutic massage) to help them avoid

getting prosecuted / sued in the UK?

I'm thinking in particular of " claims to cure " and alternative ways

of communicating this, eg:

- claims to treat

- claims that CM " has been used successfully to treat xyz " .

- making no claim, but simply quoting (personally phrased) summaries

of abstracts of research.

- etc, etc, ...

Both colleges where I studied and the two professional bodies that I

belong to were/are woefully inadequate in this area. I've just spent

an hour on Google, and there seems to be stuff relating to the US,

but nothing to do with the UK.

I can't afford to hunt down a specialist lawyer at this moment -

though if I have to I obviously will.

Many thanks if you can help!

David

http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust

accordingly.

November 4, 2005

David - have you tried talking to the legal dept at the BAcC? they're

very helpful. Also, I think chirpractors in the UK recently had a

workshop with a lawyer/solicitor about just this. If you go to Peter

Sadler's website and contact Pete, he can probably tell you.

Karen

David Gordon wrote:

>Hi people.

>

>Does anyone know of any good books/articles/websites etc (or even

>some good old-fashined plain information! ) that give advice to

>complementary therapists (in particular practitioners of

>acupuncture/herbalism/therapeutic massage) to help them avoid

>getting prosecuted / sued in the UK?

>

>I'm thinking in particular of " claims to cure " and alternative ways

>of communicating this, eg:

>- claims to treat

>- claims that CM " has been used successfully to treat xyz " .

>- making no claim, but simply quoting (personally phrased) summaries

>of abstracts of research.

>- etc, etc, ...

>

>Both colleges where I studied and the two professional bodies that I

>belong to were/are woefully inadequate in this area. I've just spent

>an hour on Google, and there seems to be stuff relating to the US,

>but nothing to do with the UK.

>

>I can't afford to hunt down a specialist lawyer at this moment -

>though if I have to I obviously will.

>

>Many thanks if you can help!

>

>David

>

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

November 5, 2005

Hmm.

Thank you for your suggestion, Attilio. Unfortunately their 'code of

conduct' doesn't even address this matter - or if it does it is so

vague as to be practically useless.

But I will give them one last chance! I will ring them (and/or my

insurers) on Monday morning and try to get some explanation.

All the best, David

Chinese Medicine , " Attilio

D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> These are things your association should explain to you. If they

don't their

> not doing their job. It should be set out in the association's code

of

> conduct, which you should have a copy. Otherwise look at the

Medicine Act.

>

> Warm regards,

>

> Attilio D'Alberto

> Doctor of (Beijing, China)

> B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M.

> Company Director

> The Earth Health Clinic

> 0208 367 8378

> enquiries@t...

> <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/>

www.theearthhealthclinic.com

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

David

> Gordon

> 04 November 2005 13:23

> Chinese Medicine

> UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting

sued/prosecuted

>

> Hi people.

>

> Does anyone know of any good books/articles/websites etc (or even

> some good old-fashined plain information! ) that give advice to

> complementary therapists (in particular practitioners of

> acupuncture/herbalism/therapeutic massage) to help them avoid

> getting prosecuted / sued in the UK?

>

> I'm thinking in particular of " claims to cure " and alternative ways

> of communicating this, eg:

> - claims to treat

> - claims that CM " has been used successfully to treat xyz " .

> - making no claim, but simply quoting (personally phrased)

summaries

> of abstracts of research.

> - etc, etc, ...

>

> Both colleges where I studied and the two professional bodies that

I

> belong to were/are woefully inadequate in this area. I've just

spent

> an hour on Google, and there seems to be stuff relating to the US,

> but nothing to do with the UK.

>

> I can't afford to hunt down a specialist lawyer at this moment -

> though if I have to I obviously will.

>

> Many thanks if you can help!

>

> David

>

> To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link

page,

> http://babel.altavista.com/

>

> and

adjust

> accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

November 5, 2005

Thank you Karen.

I don't belong to the BAcC, so I'm unsure whether they would talk to

me - but I'll check them out just in case. And I'll get in contact

with Peter Sadler as you suggested.

What I find amazing is that I never hear this subject being discussed

when I meet other practitioners. Interesting.

All the best to you. David

Chinese Medicine , karen

<tryfan@o...> wrote:

>

> David - have you tried talking to the legal dept at the BAcC?

they're

> very helpful. Also, I think chirpractors in the UK recently had a

> workshop with a lawyer/solicitor about just this. If you go to

Peter

> Sadler's website and contact Pete, he can probably tell you.

>

> Karen

>

> David Gordon wrote:

>

> >Hi people.

> >

> >Does anyone know of any good books/articles/websites etc (or even

> >some good old-fashined plain information! ) that give advice to

> >complementary therapists (in particular practitioners of

> >acupuncture/herbalism/therapeutic massage) to help them avoid

> >getting prosecuted / sued in the UK?

> >

> >I'm thinking in particular of " claims to cure " and alternative

ways

> >of communicating this, eg:

> >- claims to treat

> >- claims that CM " has been used successfully to treat xyz " .

> >- making no claim, but simply quoting (personally phrased)

summaries

> >of abstracts of research.

> >- etc, etc, ...

> >

> >Both colleges where I studied and the two professional bodies that

I

> >belong to were/are woefully inadequate in this area. I've just

spent

> >an hour on Google, and there seems to be stuff relating to the US,

> >but nothing to do with the UK.

> >

> >I can't afford to hunt down a specialist lawyer at this moment -

> >though if I have to I obviously will.

> >

> >Many thanks if you can help!

> >

> >David

> >

> >To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link

page, http://babel.altavista.com/

> >

and

adjust accordingly.

> >

> >Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

the group requires prior permission from the author.

> >

November 5, 2005

David

Sorry if I'm missing the point, but asking anyone how to avoid getting sued

is a bit like asking how to avoid being killed - don't take unnecessary

risks. However, the BAcC has a very thorough and some would say over the

top set of codes covering ethics and safety and as Karen says they are very

helpful if you think you might be involved in litigation or a patient

complaint. This service does cost quite a lot as subscriptions are over

£600 per year which includes insurance, but you do also get more business

from membership as the private health schemes won't accept acupuncture

treatment from an acupuncturist who isn't a member of the BAcC. A good 30%

of my patients are in hospital plans which contribute 50-75% of my fees, I

would not get this business if I wasn't a member.

Many of our USA colleagues seem disillusioned with the fact that they have

no unifying body who protects their interests. We have the BAcC who lobbies

to protect our title and help shape the proposed regulation of acupuncture

and Chinese herbal medicine, they negotiate special advertising deals as

well as doing a lot of PR work from which all acupuncturists benefit.

Personally I think the membership is good value for money.

regards

Susie

> Message: 5

> Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:33:16 -0000

> " David Gordon " <junhengclinic

> Re: UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting sued/prosecuted

>

> Thank you Karen.

>

> I don't belong to the BAcC, so I'm unsure whether they would talk to

> me - but I'll check them out just in case. And I'll get in contact

> with Peter Sadler as you suggested.

>

> What I find amazing is that I never hear this subject being discussed

> when I meet other practitioners. Interesting.

>

> All the best to you. David

>

> --- I--------------------------

>

November 6, 2005

Thank you so much for your reply Susie,

As I mentioned in another post, I will look at the BAcC.

Susie wrote:-

Sorry if I'm missing the point, but asking anyone how to avoid

getting sued is a bit like asking how to avoid being killed - don't

take unnecessary risks.

Hmm. To promote your practice while taking no risks would mean:-

- make no claim to any possible future benefit from your treatments.

- make no claim about any past benefits from your treatments.

- make no reference to 'suitability' of your treatments for any

disease at all.

- make no reference to any case studies, research etc.

since any of the above could be viewed by a prospective client as

meaning that your treatments can 'treat' or 'cure' their problem.

Essentially all you could say in your 'promotional material' (be it

verbal to contacts, or written on brochures etc) would be the name

and address of your clinic!

This is no way to *communicate* with people in my opinion.

What do you think?

I'm not trying to zeroise risk - that would be futile. But there must

be a reasonable policy to adopt in the UK - and no-one ever seems to

discuss it - for some reason.

Warm regards, David

Chinese Medicine , " Susie

Parkinson " <susie@p...> wrote:

>

> David

> Sorry if I'm missing the point, but asking anyone how to avoid

getting sued

> is a bit like asking how to avoid being killed - don't take

unnecessary

> risks. However, the BAcC has a very thorough and some would say

over the

> top set of codes covering ethics and safety and as Karen says they

are very

> helpful if you think you might be involved in litigation or a

patient

> complaint. This service does cost quite a lot as subscriptions are

over

> £600 per year which includes insurance, but you do also get more

business

> from membership as the private health schemes won't accept

acupuncture

> treatment from an acupuncturist who isn't a member of the BAcC. A

good 30%

> of my patients are in hospital plans which contribute 50-75% of my

fees, I

> would not get this business if I wasn't a member.

>

> Many of our USA colleagues seem disillusioned with the fact that

they have

> no unifying body who protects their interests. We have the BAcC

who lobbies

> to protect our title and help shape the proposed regulation of

acupuncture

> and Chinese herbal medicine, they negotiate special advertising

deals as

> well as doing a lot of PR work from which all acupuncturists

benefit.

> Personally I think the membership is good value for money.

>

> regards

> Susie

>

> > Message: 5

> > Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:33:16 -0000

> > " David Gordon " <junhengclinic>

> > Re: UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting

sued/prosecuted

> >

> > Thank you Karen.

> >

> > I don't belong to the BAcC, so I'm unsure whether they would talk

to

> > me - but I'll check them out just in case. And I'll get in contact

> > with Peter Sadler as you suggested.

> >

> > What I find amazing is that I never hear this subject being

discussed

> > when I meet other practitioners. Interesting.

> >

> > All the best to you. David

> >

> > --- I--------------------------

> >

>

November 6, 2005

Hi Dave and Susie,

I believe that your right David. Your unable to claim to cure in your

advertising. You can only list your details and that's all.

Susie, the BAC code of conduct is the same in other associations as well.

And you don't have to be a member of the BAC to get HSA or GP referrals.

Personally, I think the BAC is far to expensive for what you get.

Warm regards,

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M.

Company Director

The Earth Health Clinic

0208 367 8378

enquiries

<http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Susie

Parkinson

05 November 2005 23:37

Chinese Medicine

Re: UK Legal situation: How to avoid getting sued/prosecuted