Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Dear group, Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups (40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? What treatments are available in TCM etc? And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? Just a thought, David White Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 David, Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to lie. I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be better understood as possible causitive factors. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Re: Drug Use & TCM >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > >Dear group, > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects >of Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating >conditions associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal >meth, etc. These substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities >around the world is on the rise, and here in Australia even people >in the older age groups (40 +) are using. (Rather than with the >before mentioned being used primarily by the Teenage to 30 year >olds). > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? >What treatments are available in TCM etc? >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and >mind? > >Just a thought, > >David White > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi, I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse or are still using. (harm reduction) I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their DNA that makes them substance abusers. Maria Kuriloff Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike Bowser Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM David, Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to lie. I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be better understood as possible causitive factors. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Re: Drug Use & TCM >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > >Dear group, > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? >What treatments are available in TCM etc? >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > >Just a thought, > >David White > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 ---- sydneytcm 11/05/05 13:40:41 Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? What treatments are available in TCM etc? And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? (Tom) One of my teachers had a good explanation for the changes in consciousness one experiences after taking drugs. In TCM and Daoist theory, there is the Jing-Qi-Shen axis. In Daoist alchemy one will train to refine Jing and " steam " it into Shen, awareness. This takes effort. Drug users found an effortless way to do the same. The Jing, the deepest essence of our body, is controlled by the Kidneys. Kidneys govern the sea of marrow (bones, brains and CNS). In normal conditions, the brain is very well protected (BBB, blood-brain barrier.) There are however toxins which find their way through the BBB, and may then exhibit toxicity from within the CNS and brain. Drugs are an example of such toxins. The idea is that drugs will steam Jing into Shen involuntarily (well, not really involuntarily.) Depending on the drug one is using, one may experience temporarily limited feelings of empathy (ecstacy), " cosmic awareness " (mushrooms and LSD), feeling very comforted (heroin), etc. After the high (the rush, the steaming) inevitably the crash, the low will follow. This is normal, an amount of Jing has been spent- an amount that is normally said to be impossible to recover. The change in Shen was short-lived and Shen will be harmed just as Jing has been harmed. Both Shen and Jing will have suffered from the drug taking- obviously the detriment done by heroin is greater than in the case of marihuana. The above may be an explanation of the short term effect of drugs. Long term effect should have a more profound effect on both Jing and Shen (not to speak of Qi, which most certainly will be damaged in the process). The long term effect on Jing and Shen may explain why a long term drug addict looks the way he or she does: rotten teeth, premature greying and ageing, Shen-disturbances,... These all point to Jing vacuities. I think all drug users that are seeking therapy should have this phenomenon explained. Most people don't realize the massive Jing consumption will have profound effects later on in their lives, when they grow old. To people that are interested in knowing, I also try to explain that their spiritual growth is hampered by taking drugs. Some people believe the effects of ecstacy and lsd are truly " cosmic " , " spiritual " but do not realize that it is just a waste of good Jing- which could be refined through daily practice. Daily meditation does not waste Jing, instead helps to conserve Jing. There was an article in the Lantern which put forward the idea that Jing could even be increased by daily practice. This may not be generally accepted in Chinese circles, but it is a nice idea, isn't it? Regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other substances. You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. David White Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > Hi, > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse > or are still using. (harm reduction) > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > Bowser > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > David, > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to > lie. > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has > made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > >Dear group, > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > > > >Just a thought, > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Very interesting. Do you find that different substances have different effects in in regards to the Jing-Shen-Qi triad. Obviously smoking dope etc will effect the lungs - but in TCM is the psychological effect seen differently from substance to substance? I often find that old-users benefit greatly from QiGong etc, supporting your teachers theories. Thanks for the insight. DSW Chinese Medicine , " Tom Verhaeghe " <verhaeghe_tom@h...> wrote: > > > > ---- > > sydneytcm > 11/05/05 13:40:41 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Drug Use & TCM > > > > What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > What treatments are available in TCM etc? > And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and > mind? > > (Tom) One of my teachers had a good explanation for the changes in > consciousness one experiences after taking drugs. In TCM and Daoist theory, > there is the Jing-Qi-Shen axis. In Daoist alchemy one will train to refine > Jing and " steam " it into Shen, awareness. This takes effort. Drug users > found an effortless way to do the same. > The Jing, the deepest essence of our body, is controlled by the Kidneys. > Kidneys govern the sea of marrow (bones, brains and CNS). In normal > conditions, the brain is very well protected (BBB, blood-brain barrier.) > There are however toxins which find their way through the BBB, and may then > exhibit toxicity from within the CNS and brain. Drugs are an example of such > toxins. > The idea is that drugs will steam Jing into Shen involuntarily (well, not > really involuntarily.) Depending on the drug one is using, one may > experience temporarily limited feelings of empathy (ecstacy), " cosmic > awareness " (mushrooms and LSD), feeling very comforted (heroin), etc. > After the high (the rush, the steaming) inevitably the crash, the low will > follow. This is normal, an amount of Jing has been spent- an amount that is > normally said to be impossible to recover. The change in Shen was > short-lived and Shen will be harmed just as Jing has been harmed. Both Shen > and Jing will have suffered from the drug taking- obviously the detriment > done by heroin is greater than in the case of marihuana. > The above may be an explanation of the short term effect of drugs. Long term > effect should have a more profound effect on both Jing and Shen (not to > speak of Qi, which most certainly will be damaged in the process). > The long term effect on Jing and Shen may explain why a long term drug > addict looks the way he or she does: rotten teeth, premature greying and > ageing, Shen-disturbances,... These all point to Jing vacuities. > I think all drug users that are seeking therapy should have this phenomenon > explained. Most people don't realize the massive Jing consumption will have > profound effects later on in their lives, when they grow old. To people that > are interested in knowing, I also try to explain that their spiritual growth > is hampered by taking drugs. Some people believe the effects of ecstacy and > lsd are truly " cosmic " , " spiritual " but do not realize that it is just a > waste of good Jing- which could be refined through daily practice. Daily > meditation does not waste Jing, instead helps to conserve Jing. There was an > article in the Lantern which put forward the idea that Jing could even be > increased by daily practice. This may not be generally accepted in Chinese > circles, but it is a nice idea, isn't it? > > Regards, > > Tom. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Hi all, I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine addiction, see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb The NADA protocol is simply a cookbook approach and was designed that way so it could be implemented by anyone. I agree that its effective in combating a number of disorders, although it can be developed further. In the second part of the discussion on the article I wrote (see url above) I discussed the theories of cocaine addiction within TCM. Since then, I expanded those ideas into a new article, which goes on to formulate a pattern analysis for cocaine addiction, with five different syndromes. For each pattern, I've given a adapted NADA protocol, a selection of body points and a patent to use. This paper is currently undergoing peer review and should hopefully be published shortly. I'm fascinated by drug addiction. I found Given's paper in the JCM to be particularly interesting. However, Given discusses a general scope of drug addiction, which I feel is too vague. After studying drug addiction for a number of years, I have come to conclude that different classes of drugs can be categorised into two fields, yin and yang. Stronger drugs such as cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), speed (Amphetamines), poppers, etc are more yang in nature. They are active drugs that cause the most disruption between the Heart and Kidney. In Given's paper he suggests that the Shen is the root of drug addiction. I disagree. The Heart is supported by the Kidney through the mutual assistance of Fire and Water. Drug addiction is bought about by fear, sex addiction all of which are related to the Kidney. Excessive use of these drugs will greatly deplete the Jing essence housed in the Kidney. The Kidney is the most damaged organ above all. Other drugs such as opiate drugs; heroin, opium as well as cannabis and LSD are yin in nature. They greatly affect the Liver and Kidney relationship. Excessive use of these drugs will deplete the Jing essence as well but not as severe as yang drugs. Of course all the Zangfu will be affected, but I think the root organs involved are the ones I've highlighted. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. Company Director The Earth Health Clinic 0208 367 8378 enquiries <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm 06 November 2005 12:04 Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other substances. You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. David White Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > Hi, > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse > or are still using. (harm reduction) > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > Bowser > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > David, > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to > lie. > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has > made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > >Dear group, > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > > > >Just a thought, > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 David, hi - are you aware that the NADA protocol is being used to treat stress and trauma in places like NYC after 9/11 and New Orleans after hurricane Katrina? I believe there's been some research on it's value in such cases. Does sound like a miracle treatment - so there must be something missing! Probably the human factor... Karen sydneytcm wrote: >I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA >ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my >Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use >with other substances. > >You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no >differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its >use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body >Acupuncture or Herbs? > >None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. > >David White > >Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria >Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > >>Hi, >>I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of >> >> >Drug > > >>Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture >> >> >Therapy for an > > >>HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of >> >> >substance abuse > > >>or are still using. (harm reduction) >>I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance >> >> >abuse issue. > > >>Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . >> >> >(root) > > >>Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got >> >> >them hooked. > > >>They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something >> >> >in their > > >>DNA that makes them substance abusers. >> >>Maria Kuriloff >> >> >>Chinese Medicine >>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of >> >> >mike > > >>Bowser >>Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM >>Chinese Medicine >>RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM >> >>David, >> >>Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I >> >> >had a > > >>limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who >> >> >were on > > >>crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future >>outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do >> >> >tend to > > >>lie. >> >>I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of >> >> >my > > >>landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted >> >> >in a > > >>burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very >> >> >difficult > > >>situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result >> >> >of his > > >>family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole >> >> >thing has > > >>made me aware of several things such as the need to better >> >> >understand the > > >>'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people >> >> >as screwed > > >>up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need >> >> >to be > > >>better understood as possible causitive factors. Later >> >> >>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> >>>Chinese Medicine >>>Chinese Medicine >>> Re: Drug Use & TCM >>>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 >>> >>>Dear group, >>> >>>Just a general question - we have discussed previously the >>> >>> >effects of > > >>>Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various >>>treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. >>> >>>I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating >>> >>> >conditions > > >>>associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. >>> >>> >These > > >>>substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the >>> >>> >world is > > >>>on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age >>> >>> >groups > > >>>(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being >>> >>> >used > > >>>primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). >>> >>>What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? >>>What treatments are available in TCM etc? >>>And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and >>> >>> >mind? > > >>>Just a thought, >>> >>>David White >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 David, Because I'm a " Full Body " Acupuncturist, I'm able to modify the protocol for each patient. However, its not always possible (due to number of patients requesting treatment) Acupuncture Detox Specialists can only use the NADA 5 needle protocol. Most drug abusers are cross addicted to many substances. The beauty of the NADA Protocol is it treats any and all addictions. The " root " I am talking about is the cravings and stress, not the drug. Keep it simple....it works. Maria Kuriloff Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other substances. You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. David White Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > Hi, > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse > or are still using. (harm reduction) > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > Bowser > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > David, > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to > lie. > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has > made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > >Dear group, > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > > > >Just a thought, > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Attilio, I agree with Given, drug addiction and/or abuse is all about the Shen. The beauty of the NADA protocol is the " cookbook " approach. NADA is not stand alone treatment. Most addicts lack social skills, education, housing, support systems, etc. Got any needles for that? Maria Kuriloff Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Attilio D'Alberto Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:24 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM Hi all, I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine addiction, see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb The NADA protocol is simply a cookbook approach and was designed that way so it could be implemented by anyone. I agree that its effective in combating a number of disorders, although it can be developed further. In the second part of the discussion on the article I wrote (see url above) I discussed the theories of cocaine addiction within TCM. Since then, I expanded those ideas into a new article, which goes on to formulate a pattern analysis for cocaine addiction, with five different syndromes. For each pattern, I've given a adapted NADA protocol, a selection of body points and a patent to use. This paper is currently undergoing peer review and should hopefully be published shortly. I'm fascinated by drug addiction. I found Given's paper in the JCM to be particularly interesting. However, Given discusses a general scope of drug addiction, which I feel is too vague. After studying drug addiction for a number of years, I have come to conclude that different classes of drugs can be categorised into two fields, yin and yang. Stronger drugs such as cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), speed (Amphetamines), poppers, etc are more yang in nature. They are active drugs that cause the most disruption between the Heart and Kidney. In Given's paper he suggests that the Shen is the root of drug addiction. I disagree. The Heart is supported by the Kidney through the mutual assistance of Fire and Water. Drug addiction is bought about by fear, sex addiction all of which are related to the Kidney. Excessive use of these drugs will greatly deplete the Jing essence housed in the Kidney. The Kidney is the most damaged organ above all. Other drugs such as opiate drugs; heroin, opium as well as cannabis and LSD are yin in nature. They greatly affect the Liver and Kidney relationship. Excessive use of these drugs will deplete the Jing essence as well but not as severe as yang drugs. Of course all the Zangfu will be affected, but I think the root organs involved are the ones I've highlighted. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. Company Director The Earth Health Clinic 0208 367 8378 enquiries <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm 06 November 2005 12:04 Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other substances. You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. David White Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > Hi, > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse > or are still using. (harm reduction) > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > Bowser > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > David, > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to > lie. > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has > made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > >Dear group, > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > > > >Just a thought, > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Maria: I agree with Given, drug addiction and/or abuse is all about the Shen. Attilio: From a zangfu spirit perspective, the lack of will in resisting drug cravings coupled with fear and the false need for the drug, are the elements that drive the addiction. Will and fear are both associated with the kidney. A strong kidney will always be able to balance a dysfunctional heart, through the mutual assistance of fire and water mechanism. Therefore, the kidney is the root organ in drug abuse cases. Maria: NADA is not stand alone treatment. Attilio: Never said it was. Maria: Most addicts lack social skills, education, housing, support systems, etc. Attilio: Your referring to a minority of addicts at the extreme end of the spectrum. The majority of drug users have skills, education, work, housing, etc. Maria: Got any needles for that? Attilio: I'll ignore that odd question. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. Company Director The Earth Health Clinic 0208 367 8378 enquiries <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Ron & Maria Kuriloff 06 November 2005 15:30 Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM Attilio, Maria Kuriloff Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Attilio D'Alberto Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:24 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM Hi all, I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine addiction, see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb The NADA protocol is simply a cookbook approach and was designed that way so it could be implemented by anyone. I agree that its effective in combating a number of disorders, although it can be developed further. In the second part of the discussion on the article I wrote (see url above) I discussed the theories of cocaine addiction within TCM. Since then, I expanded those ideas into a new article, which goes on to formulate a pattern analysis for cocaine addiction, with five different syndromes. For each pattern, I've given a adapted NADA protocol, a selection of body points and a patent to use. This paper is currently undergoing peer review and should hopefully be published shortly. I'm fascinated by drug addiction. I found Given's paper in the JCM to be particularly interesting. However, Given discusses a general scope of drug addiction, which I feel is too vague. After studying drug addiction for a number of years, I have come to conclude that different classes of drugs can be categorised into two fields, yin and yang. Stronger drugs such as cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), speed (Amphetamines), poppers, etc are more yang in nature. They are active drugs that cause the most disruption between the Heart and Kidney. In Given's paper he suggests that the Shen is the root of drug addiction. I disagree. The Heart is supported by the Kidney through the mutual assistance of Fire and Water. Drug addiction is bought about by fear, sex addiction all of which are related to the Kidney. Excessive use of these drugs will greatly deplete the Jing essence housed in the Kidney. The Kidney is the most damaged organ above all. Other drugs such as opiate drugs; heroin, opium as well as cannabis and LSD are yin in nature. They greatly affect the Liver and Kidney relationship. Excessive use of these drugs will deplete the Jing essence as well but not as severe as yang drugs. Of course all the Zangfu will be affected, but I think the root organs involved are the ones I've highlighted. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. Company Director The Earth Health Clinic 0208 367 8378 enquiries <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm 06 November 2005 12:04 Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other substances. You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. David White Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > Hi, > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of Drug > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture Therapy for an > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of substance abuse > or are still using. (harm reduction) > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance abuse issue. > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . (root) > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got them hooked. > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something in their > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike > Bowser > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > David, > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I had a > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who were on > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do tend to > lie. > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of my > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted in a > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very difficult > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result of his > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole thing has > made me aware of several things such as the need to better understand the > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people as screwed > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need to be > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > >Dear group, > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the effects of > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating conditions > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. These > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the world is > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age groups > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being used > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and mind? > > > >Just a thought, > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine addiction, see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb >>>>>> Hi Attilio The link does not work. Also, i would appreciate anything you have written about the subject, can you forward it to me. I am writing a small section for a book that is going to deal with Rx and other drug abuse and need all the info i can get thanks Oakland, CA 94609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 ---- sydneytcm 11/06/05 13:14:57 Chinese Medicine Re: Drug Use & TCM Do you find that different substances have different effects in in regards to the Jing-Shen-Qi triad. Obviously smoking dope etc will effect the lungs - but in TCM is the psychological effect seen differently from substance to substance? (Tom) obviously there are differences between the drugs. However, I believe that the mechanism is similar: it is a consumption of jing that causes temporary shifts in the Shen. The different drug toxins will cause different effects. Btw, toxins that can reach the jing quickly are the most dangerous of all. Normal toxins follow a certain path (Wei-Qi-Xue-Jing). My teacher explained that the immune system normally learns from toxins attacking the Wei layer. If they are strong enough, they will continue their journey inwards, but the immune system has been activated. It is a different story with toxins that reach the Jing layer without higher " layers learning something from the process. Drugs disrupt the Jing and exert their toxicity from within, disrupting also the immune system. My teacher Bruno Braeckman said that this plays a big role in many auto-immune diseases. He also named vaccinations as a possibility for this: toxins are injected deep in the body, ignoring the normal process of introduction of toxins to the body. The body has no chance to learn how to fight the toxins, and the immune system is confused. My teacher had interesting theories about the immune system (IS). For example, he suggested that ultimately, Shen and IS are linked. The IS functions to distinguish the beneficial from the harmful. In TCM theories, it is the Small Intestine that separates the clear from the turbid. From modern research we now know that immune system is linked with intestinal health. Also, new findings show that there is a direct link between the brain and the intestines. Daoist would call the intestines the " second brain .. I'm trying to convey what my teacher explained much more eloquently: that there is a link between awareness-Shen and immune system. My teacher is an expert in treating Shen-disturbances and IS-related diseases (auto-immune diseases, heavy metal toxicity, chronic fatigue syndrome,...) He would choose points from the Small Intestine meridian to treat Shen-disturbances like being unable to choose what is beneficial for oneself. This is not merely his speculation, it is based upon the classics- but he has added some of his own ideas. Do others have similar or other theories? Regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Hi Karen, Yes i've heard of its use, and i myself use it for many different aspects of pysiological dysfunction. -- In Chinese Medicine , karen <tryfan@o...> wrote: > > David, hi - are you aware that the NADA protocol is being used to treat > stress and trauma in places like NYC after 9/11 and New Orleans after > hurricane Katrina? I believe there's been some research on it's value > in such cases. Does sound like a miracle treatment - so there must be > something missing! Probably the human factor... > Karen > > sydneytcm wrote: > > >I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA > >ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my > >Masters. I found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use > >with other substances. > > > >You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no > >differentiation in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its > >use depending on such circumstances? Do you combine with body > >Acupuncture or Herbs? > > > >None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. > > > >David White > > > >Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria > >Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > > > > >>Hi, > >>I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of > >> > >> > >Drug > > > > > >>Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture > >> > >> > >Therapy for an > > > > > >>HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of > >> > >> > >substance abuse > > > > > >>or are still using. (harm reduction) > >>I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance > >> > >> > >abuse issue. > > > > > >>Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . > >> > >> > >(root) > > > > > >>Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got > >> > >> > >them hooked. > > > > > >>They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something > >> > >> > >in their > > > > > >>DNA that makes them substance abusers. > >> > >>Maria Kuriloff > >> > >> > >>Chinese Medicine > >>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > >> > >> > >mike > > > > > >>Bowser > >>Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > >>Chinese Medicine > >>RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > >> > >>David, > >> > >>Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I > >> > >> > >had a > > > > > >>limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who > >> > >> > >were on > > > > > >>crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > >>outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do > >> > >> > >tend to > > > > > >>lie. > >> > >>I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of > >> > >> > >my > > > > > >>landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted > >> > >> > >in a > > > > > >>burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very > >> > >> > >difficult > > > > > >>situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result > >> > >> > >of his > > > > > >>family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole > >> > >> > >thing has > > > > > >>made me aware of several things such as the need to better > >> > >> > >understand the > > > > > >>'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people > >> > >> > >as screwed > > > > > >>up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need > >> > >> > >to be > > > > > >>better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > >> > >> > >>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > >>>Chinese Medicine > >>>Chinese Medicine > >>> Re: Drug Use & TCM > >>>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > >>> > >>>Dear group, > >>> > >>>Just a general question - we have discussed previously the > >>> > >>> > >effects of > > > > > >>>Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > >>>treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > >>> > >>>I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating > >>> > >>> > >conditions > > > > > >>>associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. > >>> > >>> > >These > > > > > >>>substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the > >>> > >>> > >world is > > > > > >>>on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age > >>> > >>> > >groups > > > > > >>>(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being > >>> > >>> > >used > > > > > >>>primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > >>> > >>>What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > >>>What treatments are available in TCM etc? > >>>And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and > >>> > >>> > >mind? > > > > > >>>Just a thought, > >>> > >>>David White > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 >I'm able to modify the protocol > for each patient. Modify a protocol?? Then you are not using a " protocol " per se. I agree, the NADA protocol is very effective in many cases of addiction. The " root " i thought you were reffering too was in regards to TCM theoretical foundations. What differentiation do you apply? What are the individual patients patterns? DSW Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > David, > Because I'm a " Full Body " Acupuncturist, I'm able to modify the protocol > for each patient. However, its not always possible (due to number of > patients requesting treatment) Acupuncture Detox Specialists can only use > the NADA 5 needle protocol. Most drug abusers are cross addicted to many > substances. The beauty of the NADA Protocol is it treats any and all > addictions. The " root " I am talking about is the cravings and stress, not > the drug. Keep it simple....it works. > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm > Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Drug Use & TCM > > I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA > ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I > found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other > substances. > > You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation > in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such > circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? > > None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. > > David White > > Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff > <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of > Drug > > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture > Therapy for an > > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of > substance abuse > > or are still using. (harm reduction) > > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance > abuse issue. > > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . > (root) > > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got > them hooked. > > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something > in their > > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > > > Maria Kuriloff > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > mike > > Bowser > > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > > Chinese Medicine > > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > > > David, > > > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I > had a > > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who > were on > > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do > tend to > > lie. > > > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of > my > > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted > in a > > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very > difficult > > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result > of his > > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole > thing has > > made me aware of several things such as the need to better > understand the > > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people > as screwed > > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need > to be > > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > > >Chinese Medicine > > >Chinese Medicine > > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > > > >Dear group, > > > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the > effects of > > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating > conditions > > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. > These > > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the > world is > > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age > groups > > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being > used > > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and > mind? > > > > > >Just a thought, > > > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi all, > > I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine > addiction, see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb Hi Attilio! Dead link. What was it before they took it down? Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Attilio D'Alberto wrote: <snip> > Maria: Got any needles for that? > > Attilio: I'll ignore that odd question. Hi Attilio! I seem to have missed the frequency of the NADA treatment. How often is it given? I found a nice link for the points. <http://www.yinyanghouse.com/auricular/aurnada.html#nada> Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Attilio:The majority of drug users have skills, education, work, housing, > etc. David: Attilio, i agree. This was one of the reasons i posted the questions. We were discussing crystal meths usage here in Sydney and found that alot of it is being used by 40+ year old guys with above average income. Cheers!!! DSW Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > Maria: I agree with Given, drug addiction and/or abuse is all about the > Shen. > > Attilio: From a zangfu spirit perspective, the lack of will in resisting > drug cravings coupled with fear and the false need for the drug, are the > elements that drive the addiction. Will and fear are both associated with > the kidney. A strong kidney will always be able to balance a dysfunctional > heart, through the mutual assistance of fire and water mechanism. Therefore, > the kidney is the root organ in drug abuse cases. > > Maria: NADA is not stand alone treatment. > > Attilio: Never said it was. > > Maria: Most addicts lack social skills, education, housing, support systems, > etc. > > Attilio: Your referring to a minority of addicts at the extreme end of the > spectrum. The majority of drug users have skills, education, work, housing, > etc. > > Maria: Got any needles for that? > > Attilio: I'll ignore that odd question. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > Company Director > The Earth Health Clinic > 0208 367 8378 > enquiries@t... > <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Ron & > Maria Kuriloff > 06 November 2005 15:30 > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > > Attilio, > > > Maria Kuriloff > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Attilio > D'Alberto > Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:24 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > Hi all, > > I've also studied the NADA protocol in the treatment of cocaine addiction, > see http://tinyurl.com/b2nqb > > The NADA protocol is simply a cookbook approach and was designed that way so > it could be implemented by anyone. I agree that its effective in combating a > number of disorders, although it can be developed further. In the second > part of the discussion on the article I wrote (see url above) I discussed > the theories of cocaine addiction within TCM. Since then, I expanded those > ideas into a new article, which goes on to formulate a pattern analysis for > cocaine addiction, with five different syndromes. For each pattern, I've > given a adapted NADA protocol, a selection of body points and a patent to > use. This paper is currently undergoing peer review and should hopefully be > published shortly. > > I'm fascinated by drug addiction. I found Given's paper in the JCM to be > particularly interesting. However, Given discusses a general scope of drug > addiction, which I feel is too vague. After studying drug addiction for a > number of years, I have come to conclude that different classes of drugs can > be categorised into two fields, yin and yang. Stronger drugs such as > cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), speed (Amphetamines), poppers, etc are more yang in > nature. They are active drugs that cause the most disruption between the > Heart and Kidney. In Given's paper he suggests that the Shen is the root of > drug addiction. I disagree. The Heart is supported by the Kidney through the > mutual assistance of Fire and Water. Drug addiction is bought about by fear, > sex addiction all of which are related to the Kidney. Excessive use of these > drugs will greatly deplete the Jing essence housed in the Kidney. The Kidney > is the most damaged organ above all. Other drugs such as opiate drugs; > heroin, opium as well as cannabis and LSD are yin in nature. They greatly > affect the Liver and Kidney relationship. Excessive use of these drugs will > deplete the Jing essence as well but not as severe as yang drugs. Of course > all the Zangfu will be affected, but I think the root organs involved are > the ones I've highlighted. > > Warm regards, > > Attilio D'Alberto > Doctor of (Beijing, China) B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M. > Company Director > The Earth Health Clinic > 0208 367 8378 > enquiries@t... > <http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm > 06 November 2005 12:04 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Drug Use & TCM > > > I just finished reviewing Auriculotherapy (specifically the NADA > ptotocol) in the treatment of Cocaine and Heroin abuse for my Masters. I > found it was effective which is why i questioned it's use with other > substances. > > You say it treats the root - but as a protocol there is no differentiation > in the treatment of individuals. Do you modify its use depending on such > circumstances? Do you combine with body Acupuncture or Herbs? > > None the less, i find it to be an exceptional management. > > David White > > Chinese Medicine , Ron & Maria Kuriloff > <rmkuriloff@o...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I do Acupuncture Therapy and NADA ADS supervision for a number of > Drug > > Treatment programs in and around NYC. I also do Acupuncture > Therapy for an > > HIV program, where most of our patients have a history of > substance abuse > > or are still using. (harm reduction) > > I use the NADA protocal. The protocal works for any substance > abuse issue. > > Its not stand alone, the patient needs to address the " why " . > (root) > > Most, about 90%, of my patients feel its poor choices that got > them hooked. > > They don't buy into the idea that they are sick or have something > in their > > DNA that makes them substance abusers. > > > > Maria Kuriloff > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > mike > > Bowser > > Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:47 AM > > Chinese Medicine > > RE: Re: Drug Use & TCM > > > > David, > > > > Good question and one that is sooo needed here in the states. I > had a > > limited exposure to treating a few patients as a school intern who > were on > > crystal meth (w/NADA auricular protocal) but not sure of the future > > outcomes. They said it really helped them, although druggies do > tend to > > lie. > > > > I had another incident recently where my roomate, also the son of > my > > landlord, was found to be doing crystal meth. His usage resulted > in a > > burgarly of my place and loss of checkbook. This created a very > difficult > > situation. He is now in a chemical treatment facility as a result > of his > > family doing an intervention and having him committed. This whole > thing has > > made me aware of several things such as the need to better > understand the > > 'why' of this and other drug problems not just label these people > as screwed > > up. Societal pressures such as economics, limitations, etc need > to be > > better understood as possible causitive factors. Later > > > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > > > " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> > > >Chinese Medicine > > >Chinese Medicine > > > Re: Drug Use & TCM > > >Fri, 04 Nov 2005 03:04:21 -0000 > > > > > >Dear group, > > > > > >Just a general question - we have discussed previously the > effects of > > >Heroin, Cocaine, Smoking, and dope on the body and the various > > >treatments that are available, and the TCM point of view. > > > > > >I was wondering, have any of you had experience in treating > conditions > > >associated with Speed, ectasy,and particularly crystal meth, etc. > These > > >substances, " party drugs " , usage within communities around the > world is > > >on the rise, and here in Australia even people in the older age > groups > > >(40 +) are using. (Rather than with the before mentioned being > used > > >primarily by the Teenage to 30 year olds). > > > > > >What are the effects on the body from a TCM perspective? > > >What treatments are available in TCM etc? > > >And what is the effets of short and long term use on the body and > mind? > > > > > >Just a thought, > > > > > >David White > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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