TCM-demographics-I am ready to move to Europe

October 28, 2005

Hello Pete, David,and Andrea

I just joined the forum. I've been in practice nearly three years in

Austin TX, and am seeing between 5 and 10 patients a week. There are

two schools here, and lots of competition. I work two part-time jobs,

so I'm getting by, and I have a beautiful (free) home office. It's

certainly not what I envisioned though. I know I am bitter, but I try

to keep it in check. There's no point. But now I have a new option...

Just got the news that my husband's company (Pete, he is not a rich

spouse, but rather a debt-ridden spouse) would prefer he moves to

Paris. As a second option, a short plane ride from Paris, such as

Dublin, Ireland, is acceptable. We are both American citizens, but I

have a Swiss passport, and therefore, it seems, access to work in

Europe, although Switzerland refused to join the EU. My husband will

have his Irish passport within a year.

So since unlike Pete. I am able to move, I would welcome any and all

advice regarding a TCM practice in Europe. I hope to have a better

experience.

Thanks so much,

Gabrielle

www.fivelements.com

October 28, 2005

Greetings... and best of luck in your search. I, too,

have been contemplating a move to Europe in a couple

of years to do my practice. Some notes from what I

know:

- France will be a bit tough, as it appears you need

to be a licensed physician to be able to practice in

France; simiarly with Holland

- UK does its own licensing through an exam similar to

NCCAOM, so you will need to check with the authorities

over there

- A little more lax in terms of credentialling

requirements in Spain, Portugal, and in most of the

other EU countries.... but you should check with the

requirements of the local country to make sure

In general, acupuncture is not as widely used as it is

in the US, and definitely from what I know, getting a

good income is going to be just as challenging, if not

more.

I would love to hear back if you find out anything

else.

PS: I hold a EU passport in addition to a US passport,

and I know that you will need an EU passport to be

able to practice in one of the member countries. Not

sure how Switzerland would play into this picture,

unfortunately.

--- gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu

wrote:

> Hello Pete, David,and Andrea

>

> I just joined the forum. I've been in practice

> nearly three years in

> Austin TX, and am seeing between 5 and 10 patients a

> week. There are

> two schools here, and lots of competition. I work

> two part-time jobs,

> so I'm getting by, and I have a beautiful (free)

> home office. It's

> certainly not what I envisioned though. I know I am

> bitter, but I try

> to keep it in check. There's no point. But now I

> have a new option...

>

> Just got the news that my husband's company (Pete,

> he is not a rich

> spouse, but rather a debt-ridden spouse) would

> prefer he moves to

> Paris. As a second option, a short plane ride from

> Paris, such as

> Dublin, Ireland, is acceptable. We are both American

> citizens, but I

> have a Swiss passport, and therefore, it seems,

> access to work in

> Europe, although Switzerland refused to join the EU.

> My husband will

> have his Irish passport within a year.

>

> So since unlike Pete. I am able to move, I would

> welcome any and all

> advice regarding a TCM practice in Europe. I hope to

> have a better

> experience.

>

> Thanks so much,

> Gabrielle

> www.fivelements.com

>

October 28, 2005

I don't think its a little less lax in Spain or Portugal or the rest of

Europe. Most of Europe runs on Napoleonic law which means you need to be an

MD or practice under an MD and that's just acupuncture, herbs are a

different story. The UK doesn't work under Napoleonic law due to historical

aspects. Most of Europe have heard of acupuncture and alot of people in the

UK have had it before. At the moment anyone can practice in the UK without

qualifications and I've heard of some Chinese actually opening clinics

without any knowledge of TCM. Soon however, statutory regulation will come

into effect and we can all rest easy.

Warm regards,

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

B.Sc. (Hons) T.C.M., M.A.T.C.M.

Company Director

The Earth Health Clinic

0208 367 8378

enquiries

<http://www.theearthhealthclinic.com/> www.theearthhealthclinic.com

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Rene Ng

28 October 2005 19:52

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: TCM-demographics-I am ready to move to Europe

Greetings... and best of luck in your search. I, too,

have been contemplating a move to Europe in a couple

of years to do my practice. Some notes from what I

know:

- France will be a bit tough, as it appears you need

to be a licensed physician to be able to practice in

France; simiarly with Holland

- UK does its own licensing through an exam similar to

NCCAOM, so you will need to check with the authorities

over there

- A little more lax in terms of credentialling

requirements in Spain, Portugal, and in most of the

other EU countries.... but you should check with the

requirements of the local country to make sure

In general, acupuncture is not as widely used as it is

in the US, and definitely from what I know, getting a

good income is going to be just as challenging, if not

more.

I would love to hear back if you find out anything

else.

PS: I hold a EU passport in addition to a US passport,

and I know that you will need an EU passport to be

able to practice in one of the member countries. Not

sure how Switzerland would play into this picture,

unfortunately.

--- gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu

wrote:

> Hello Pete, David,and Andrea

>

> I just joined the forum. I've been in practice

> nearly three years in

> Austin TX, and am seeing between 5 and 10 patients a

> week. There are

> two schools here, and lots of competition. I work

> two part-time jobs,

> so I'm getting by, and I have a beautiful (free)

> home office. It's

> certainly not what I envisioned though. I know I am

> bitter, but I try

> to keep it in check. There's no point. But now I

> have a new option...

>

> Just got the news that my husband's company (Pete,

> he is not a rich

> spouse, but rather a debt-ridden spouse) would

> prefer he moves to

> Paris. As a second option, a short plane ride from

> Paris, such as

> Dublin, Ireland, is acceptable. We are both American

> citizens, but I

> have a Swiss passport, and therefore, it seems,

> access to work in

> Europe, although Switzerland refused to join the EU.

> My husband will

> have his Irish passport within a year.

>

> So since unlike Pete. I am able to move, I would

> welcome any and all

> advice regarding a TCM practice in Europe. I hope to

> have a better

> experience.

>

> Thanks so much,

> Gabrielle

> www.fivelements.com

>

http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust

accordingly.

October 28, 2005

Seems to me pretty much the same over here as what all you guys are

describing. ie .... a very mixed picture. Some practices take off, others

don't, and whose does or doesn't probably depends on very similar variables.

Here's a couple more I think make a difference:

- location I think is a big one. Not so much which town but where abouts in

the town you practice. What the footfall is like past / through your clinic.

One of my clinics is within a very very busy chiropractic clinic. Thus far

most of my new patients come because they've seen my poster in the waiting

room - although word of mouth is now beginning to kick in after 14 months

there.

Also, what's the parking like close by. Is it accessible?

- who you know. Another big one (afraid so!). I'm really bad at doing the

networking thing. Being very much an introvert by nature, something in me

kicks strongly against this, but the people that are good at it reap much

benefit. Although I very rarely network, and, despite living where I am for

the past 6 years (Bristol, UK) know few people in town, I do know a number

of GPs personally, and this has opened many doors for me, from places to

practice to referrals.

- how financially dependant are you on building a practice? It can be

tempting to hang on to the other sources of income but if you're running a

couple of part time jobs, how much time are you able to put in to being

creative with building the practice? It's amazing how creative and

enthusiastic we can be when our back is against the wall. (personal

experience!)

Bristol has a huge number of acupuncturists practicing and it was with high

level of uncertainty that I set up here - it was actually by default rather

than by choice for personal reasons, that I did so. My clinics have been

running now for just over a year and I guess I average around 30 patients a

week. This week 38, next week looks the same, but it has its ups and downs.

Some colleagues in town are struggling badly, others are doing ok, but I

think it would be fair to say that there is a general feeling that it's

really tough. AND, there again, setting up a business, whatever that

business is, is usually tough out the outset...it's not just peculiar to

acupuncture.

The funding of GP practices in the UK is set to change next year which will

give individual practices much more say as to how they spend their budget.

In the current climate of patient choice here, I believe this will open the

door for acupuncture treatment (which always gets a very good press over

here) to be more widely available on the NHS (i.e. free at the point of

delivery). This will potentially open up a lot of employment possibilities.

Hope this helps

Jason

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

gabriellemathieu

28 October 2005 19:08

Chinese Medicine

Re: TCM-demographics-I am ready to move to Europe