Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Hi Andrea Beth & All, Andrea Beth wrote: > I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe worldwide > pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of > deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu epidemic of > 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet > for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we can > do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, > how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? Some virology experts are predicting catastrophic numbers of deaths starting early in 2006. I hope (and my gut " feels " ) that they are wrong, but herbalists could have a critical role to play if a pandemic explodes. The beauty (some would say weakness) of TCM is that it tries to identify the disease TCM PATTERN with its BRANCHES and ROOTS(s) rather than the western biomedical cause (in this case mutating viruses that can thrive in people whose defence systems are weakened by a range of stressors (pollution, malnourishment, poor environmental conditions, mental or social stress, etc). Having made the TCM DIfferential Dx, appropriate treatments, including herbal formulas, AP, etc can be selected to try to address the ROOT and BRANCH, especially strengthen the Weiqi and the affected organs. (1) That is why I raised the question on several lists. IMO, we should be discussing the various faces of acute respiratory diseases and (novices like me) learning the treatment options to handle these. The TCM Pharmacopoeia has dozens of antiviral herbs, plus a huge range of Clear Heat + Clear Toxin + Release Exterior herbs, herbs to aid YIng and Wei, aid LU, Dispel Wind, Cold & Damp, Resolve Phlegm, etc. (2) There is a second reason for thinking about this NOW. The SARS scare (a fleabite in comparison to what some pundits predict for the avian flu pandemic) showed us that effective herbal remedies are snapped up and hoarded during the critical time. Therefore, it may be wise to lay in some stocks of the more crtical remedies NOW before panic buying puts them in short supply next year. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Thanks for raising this question, Phil. I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe worldwide pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu epidemic of 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we can do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? < wrote: Hi All, See this, from: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2005w24/msg00046.htm This is scary stuff when set against prediction by some experts [see: www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=Science.OpinionAboutAFluPandemic ] of an avian-flu pandemic early next year. Herbalists, should we renew discussion of CHM Formulas that may address severe viral respiratory diseases? Best regards, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bird Flu Drug Rendered Useless: Chinese Chickens Given Medication Made for Humans By Alan Sipress Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, June 18, 2005; A01 HONG KONG -- Chinese farmers, acting with the approval and encouragement of government officials, have tried to suppress major bird flu outbreaks among chickens with an antiviral drug meant for humans, animal health experts said. International researchers now conclude that this is why the drug will no longer protect people in case of a worldwide bird flu epidemic. China's use of the drug amantadine, which violated international livestock guidelines, was widespread years before China acknowledged any infection of its poultry, according to pharmaceutical company executives and veterinarians. Since January 2004, avian influenza has spread across nine East Asian countries, devastating poultry flocks and killing at least 54 people in Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam, but none in China. World Health Organization officials warned the virus could easily undergo genetic changes to create a strain capable of killing tens of millions of people worldwide. Although China did not report an avian influenza outbreak until February 2004, executives at Chinese pharmaceutical companies and veterinarians said farmers were widely using the drug to control the virus in the late 1990s. The Chinese Agriculture Ministry approved the production and sale of the drug for use in chickens, according to officials from the Chinese pharmaceutical industry and the government, although such use is barred in the United States and many other countries. Local government veterinary stations instructed Chinese farmers on how to use the drug and at times supplied it, animal health experts said. Amantadine is one of two types of medication for treating human influenza. But researchers determined last year that the H5N1 bird flu strain circulating in Vietnam and Thailand, the two countries hardest hit by the virus, had become resistant, leaving only an alternative drug that is difficult to produce in large amounts and much less affordable, especially for developing countries in Southeast Asia. " It's definitely an issue if there's a pandemic. Amantadine is off the table, " said Richard Webby, an influenza expert at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis. Health experts outside China previously said they suspected the virus's resistance to the medicine was linked to drug use at poultry farms but were unable to confirm the practice inside the country. Influenza researchers at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in particular, have collected information about amantadine use from Chinese Web sites but have been frustrated in their efforts to learn more on the ground. China has previously run afoul of international agencies for its response to public and agricultural health crises, notably the SARS epidemic that began in 2002. China's health minister was fired after the government acknowledged it had covered up the extent of the SARS outbreak by preventing state-run media from reporting about the disease for months and by minimizing its seriousness. In interviews, executives at Chinese pharmaceutical companies confirmed that the drug had been used since the late 1990s, to treat chickens sickened by bird flu and to prevent healthy ones from catching it. " Amantadine is widely used in the entire country, " said Zhang Libin, head of the veterinary medicine division of Northeast General Pharmaceutical Factory in Shenyang. He added, " Many pharmaceutical factories around China produce amantadine, and farmers can buy it easily in veterinary medicine stores. " Zhang and other animal health experts said the drug was used by small, private farms and larger commercial ones. Amantadine sells for about $10 a pound, a fraction of the drug's cost in Europe and the United States, where its price would be prohibitive for all but human consumption. Two months before China first reported a bird flu outbreak in poultry to the World Animal Health Organization in February 2004, officials had begun a massive campaign to immunize poultry against the virus. They have now used at least 2.6 billion doses of a vaccine. But researchers in Hong Kong have reported that the H5N1 flu virus has been circulating in mainland China for at least eight years and that Chinese farms suffered major outbreaks in 1997, 2001 and 2003. Scientists have traced the virus that has devastated farms across Southeast Asia in the last two years to a strain isolated from a goose in China's Guangdong province in 1996. The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization has long recommended that countries try to eradicate infectious animal diseases by slaughtering infected flocks and increasing safety measures on farms. Last year, the FAO also suggested that countries consider vaccinating their poultry against bird flu. But the guidelines never recommended the use of antiviral drugs such as amantadine, which, unlike vaccination, has been proven to make viruses resistant, officials said. In 1987, researchers at a U.S. Department of Agriculture laboratory demonstrated that bird flu viruses developed drug resistance within a matter of days when infected chickens received amantadine. Still, a veterinarian with personal knowledge of livestock practices across China said Chinese farmers responded to the bird flu outbreak by putting the drug into their chickens' drinking water. The veterinarian asked that his name not be published because he feared for his livelihood. " This would explain why we're seeing such high resistance levels, " said Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. While various antibiotics have lost their effectiveness because of overuse, he said, the emergence of resistance to amantadine is unprecedented because it is an antiviral. " This is the first example of an antiviral drug that was used for animal production that has major implications for human health, " Osterholm said. A popular Chinese handbook, titled Medicine Pamphlet for Animals and Poultry, provides farmers and livestock officials with specific prescriptions for amantadine use to treat chickens and ferrets with respiratory viruses. The manual, written by a professor at the People's Liberation Army Agriculture and Husbandry University and issued by a military-owned publishing company, prescribes 0.025 grams of amantadine/kg chicken body weight. Farmers also use the drug to prevent healthy chickens from catching bird flu, giving it to their poultry about once a month or more often when the weather is liable to change and chickens are considered susceptible to illness, veterinary experts said. The antiviral is often mixed with Chinese herbs, vitamins and other medicine. In the United States, amantadine was approved in 1976 by the Food and Drug Administration for treating influenza in adults. Amantadine and it sister drug, rimantadine, known collectively as amantadines, work by preventing a flu virus from reproducing itself. Both are now ineffective against the H5N1 strain. International health experts stressed that amantadine could have been vital in stanching the spread of the bird flu virus in the early weeks of an epidemic. Now, the only alternative is oseltamivir and closely related zanamivir, which stop the flu virus from leaving infected cells and attacking new ones. Oseltamivir is easier to use and has far greater sales. " Amantadine is the cheapest drug against flu, " said Malik Peiris, an influenza expert at the University of Hong Kong. " It is much more affordable for many countries of the region. Now, it is clearly no longer an option. " Special correspondents Ling Jin in Beijing and K.C. Ng in Hong Kong contributed to this report. -- " Life sure is weird but what else am I to know? " [Jason Pierce] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) Ireland. Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Hi Andrea Beth & All, Andrea Beth wrote: > I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe worldwide > pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of > deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu epidemic of > 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet > for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we can > do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, > how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? Some virology experts are predicting catastrophic numbers of deaths starting early in 2006. I hope (and my gut " feels " ) that they are wrong, but herbalists could have a critical role to play if a pandemic explodes. The beauty (some would say weakness) of TCM is that it tries to identify the disease TCM PATTERN with its BRANCHES and ROOTS(s) rather than the western biomedical cause (in this case mutating viruses that can thrive in people whose defence systems are weakened by a range of stressors (pollution, malnourishment, poor environmental conditions, mental or social stress, etc). Having made the TCM DIfferential Dx, appropriate treatments, including herbal formulas, AP, etc can be selected to try to address the ROOT and BRANCH, especially strengthen the Weiqi and the affected organs. (1) That is why I raised the question on several lists. IMO, we should be discussing the various faces of acute respiratory diseases and (novices like me) learning the treatment options to handle these. The TCM Pharmacopoeia has dozens of antiviral herbs, plus a huge range of Clear Heat + Clear Toxin + Release Exterior herbs, herbs to aid YIng and Wei, aid LU, Dispel Wind, Cold & Damp, Resolve Phlegm, etc. (2) There is a second reason for thinking about this NOW. The SARS scare (a fleabite in comparison to what some pundits predict for the avian flu pandemic) showed us that effective herbal remedies are snapped up and hoarded during the critical time. Therefore, it may be wise to lay in some stocks of the more crtical remedies NOW before panic buying puts them in short supply next year. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hi Phil and all, Perhaps we can start now by addressing wei qi deficiency in our patients who have that, and deficiency of lung qi and yin where we see patients with those patterns. As we explore this topic, I would like to ask for recommendations of high quality patent remedies, tinctures, and pills that address the patterns we are likely to see. Many of us are not yet able to afford stock in quantities of raw herbs, and many patients will not use them. For me, prepared formulas are more accessible and easier for my patients' compliance. In addition, I think we would be wise to address any unusual weather patterns we have seen in the last few months in our own locales, and whatever impact that is having on disease patterns. For instance, here in Arizona we had an unusually rainy, hot, and humid summer, with a very abrupt shift a couple of weeks ago into cold nights, hot days, and dry air. People haven't had time to acclimate to the weather change and now I am seeing a variety of lung patterns - wind heat with hot phlegm, wind cold with runny mucous, and wind dryness with severe headaches and little or no actual phlegm. How we help our patients resolve these conditions now will have an impact on how well and strong they are during flu season. This is a good opportunity to educate our patients and the public on preparing now, one or two seasons ahead of flu season, to be strong and healthy when that time comes. < wrote: Hi Andrea Beth & All, Andrea Beth wrote: > I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe worldwide > pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of > deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu epidemic of > 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet > for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we can > do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, > how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? Some virology experts are predicting catastrophic numbers of deaths starting early in 2006. I hope (and my gut " feels " ) that they are wrong, but herbalists could have a critical role to play if a pandemic explodes. The beauty (some would say weakness) of TCM is that it tries to identify the disease TCM PATTERN with its BRANCHES and ROOTS(s) rather than the western biomedical cause (in this case mutating viruses that can thrive in people whose defence systems are weakened by a range of stressors (pollution, malnourishment, poor environmental conditions, mental or social stress, etc). Having made the TCM DIfferential Dx, appropriate treatments, including herbal formulas, AP, etc can be selected to try to address the ROOT and BRANCH, especially strengthen the Weiqi and the affected organs. (1) That is why I raised the question on several lists. IMO, we should be discussing the various faces of acute respiratory diseases and (novices like me) learning the treatment options to handle these. The TCM Pharmacopoeia has dozens of antiviral herbs, plus a huge range of Clear Heat + Clear Toxin + Release Exterior herbs, herbs to aid YIng and Wei, aid LU, Dispel Wind, Cold & Damp, Resolve Phlegm, etc. (2) There is a second reason for thinking about this NOW. The SARS scare (a fleabite in comparison to what some pundits predict for the avian flu pandemic) showed us that effective herbal remedies are snapped up and hoarded during the critical time. Therefore, it may be wise to lay in some stocks of the more crtical remedies NOW before panic buying puts them in short supply next year. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Andrea Beth, Very well said all around. I think Chinese medicine has all the tools we need to prepare for potential epidemics, and your thoughts on weather and seasonal changes are well-taken. Here in California September has been very cool with a lot of cold fronts passing through, and one tropical surge that brought thunderstorms. There have been several low-grade epidemics of colds, stomach bugs, and flu passing through as a result. Whenever there are weather changes here, these respiratory infections and stomach bugs run rampant, it seems. I know this is your first long summer in Arizona, so I did want to point out that a switch from hot humid weather to a dry pattern with warm days and cool nights is the norm there and in New Mexico. According to the warm disease texts, this sets up cold dryness and warm dryness evils to attack, so keep this in mind with any external contractions that are 'passing through'. On Sep 20, 2005, at 11:17 PM, wrote: > Hi Phil and all, > > Perhaps we can start now by addressing wei qi deficiency in our > patients who have that, and deficiency of lung qi and yin where we > see patients with those patterns. As we explore this topic, I > would like to ask for recommendations of high quality patent > remedies, tinctures, and pills that address the patterns we are > likely to see. Many of us are not yet able to afford stock in > quantities of raw herbs, and many patients will not use them. For > me, prepared formulas are more accessible and easier for my > patients' compliance. > > In addition, I think we would be wise to address any unusual > weather patterns we have seen in the last few months in our own > locales, and whatever impact that is having on disease patterns. > For instance, here in Arizona we had an unusually rainy, hot, and > humid summer, with a very abrupt shift a couple of weeks ago into > cold nights, hot days, and dry air. People haven't had time to > acclimate to the weather change and now I am seeing a variety of > lung patterns - wind heat with hot phlegm, wind cold with runny > mucous, and wind dryness with severe headaches and little or no > actual phlegm. How we help our patients resolve these conditions > now will have an impact on how well and strong they are during flu > season. This is a good opportunity to educate our patients and the > public on preparing now, one or two seasons ahead of flu season, to > be strong and healthy when that time comes. > > > > < wrote: > Hi Andrea Beth & All, > > Andrea Beth wrote: > >> I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe >> worldwide >> pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of >> deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu >> epidemic of >> 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet >> for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we >> can >> do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, >> how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? >> > > Some virology experts are predicting catastrophic numbers of deaths > starting early in 2006. I hope (and my gut " feels " ) that they are > wrong, > but herbalists could have a critical role to play if a pandemic > explodes. > > The beauty (some would say weakness) of TCM is that it tries to > identify > the disease TCM PATTERN with its BRANCHES and ROOTS(s) rather > than the western biomedical cause (in this case mutating viruses that > can thrive in people whose defence systems are weakened by a range > of stressors (pollution, malnourishment, poor environmental > conditions, > mental or social stress, etc). > > Having made the TCM DIfferential Dx, appropriate treatments, including > herbal formulas, AP, etc can be selected to try to address the ROOT > and BRANCH, especially strengthen the Weiqi and the affected organs. > > (1) That is why I raised the question on several lists. IMO, we > should be > discussing the various faces of acute respiratory diseases and > (novices > like me) learning the treatment options to handle these. > > The TCM Pharmacopoeia has dozens of antiviral herbs, plus a huge > range of Clear Heat + Clear Toxin + Release Exterior herbs, herbs to > aid YIng and Wei, aid LU, Dispel Wind, Cold & Damp, Resolve Phlegm, > etc. > > (2) There is a second reason for thinking about this NOW. The SARS > scare (a fleabite in comparison to what some pundits predict for the > avian flu pandemic) showed us that effective herbal remedies are > snapped up and hoarded during the critical time. Therefore, it may be > wise to lay in some stocks of the more crtical remedies NOW before > panic buying puts them in short supply next year. > > > Best regards, > > Email: < > > WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm > > Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt > man doing it " > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hi Beth & All, Beth Lambert wrote: > Talk about timing. I just returned to my office and have been getting > questions about Avian flu all morning. Thanks for the heads up on the > 60 Minutes piece. Just got off the phone with my colleague David > Winston who was asked to discuss the issue in his class last night. He > discussed the anti-viral influenza herbs: andrographis, lonicera, > garlic and isatis. But he also mentioned that in treating acute cases > he would have to see how the disease presents and then potentially look > to some of the more toxic herbs used by the Eclectics to treat febrile > disease such as aconite, belladonna, and gelsemium. In discussions with > one of our customers about the issue this morning she said that she > heard that there is an anti-dote. A little Google work showed that to > be Tamiflu, produced by Hoffman-LaRoche. That there were insufficient > amounts in the US, but that it was available in Canada and Europe. > (Which seemed to be confirmed by an on-line Business Week article.)Have > no idea what's in it, but that's been my morning. Beth Lambert Herbalist > & Alchemist http://news.ft.com/cms/s/951c30c8-2865-11da-97c7- 00000e2511c8.html says: Fear aids Tamiflu recovery By Andrew Jack [Financial Times], Published: September 18 2005 17:57 | Last updated: September 18 2005 17:57 A few months ago, Roche was under attack from its development partner Gilead for disappointing sales of the antiviral drug Tamiflu. As fears of a bird flu pandemic have spread, the Swiss pharmaceuticals company is instead facing a more enviable challenge: how to produce enough. See: http://www.tamiflu.com/ and http://www.fda.gov/cder/consumerinfo/druginfo/tamiflu.htm Tamiflu (Roche) is oseltamivir phosphate, said to be an antiviral agent, classified as an Influenza virus neuraminidase inhibitor (NAI). Medline has 344 hits on it. See: http://tinyurl.com/7g2l8 Medline also has 228 hits for the profile: (acute-respiratory OR SARS OR pneumonia OR flu OR influenza) AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) See: http://tinyurl.com/7f6vr However, Medline had NO HITS for the profile: oseltamivir AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) This suggests that no trial has been published to compare the efficacy of oseltamivir versus herbal medicine. Somehow, I think that Roche might balk at funding a largescale trial to address that question. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) Ireland. Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Hi Beth & All, Beth Lambert wrote: > Talk about timing. I just returned to my office and have been getting > questions about Avian flu all morning. Thanks for the heads up on the > 60 Minutes piece. Just got off the phone with my colleague David > Winston who was asked to discuss the issue in his class last night. He > discussed the anti-viral influenza herbs: andrographis, lonicera, > garlic and isatis. But he also mentioned that in treating acute cases > he would have to see how the disease presents and then potentially look > to some of the more toxic herbs used by the Eclectics to treat febrile > disease such as aconite, belladonna, and gelsemium. In discussions with > one of our customers about the issue this morning she said that she > heard that there is an anti-dote. A little Google work showed that to > be Tamiflu, produced by Hoffman-LaRoche. That there were insufficient > amounts in the US, but that it was available in Canada and Europe. > (Which seemed to be confirmed by an on-line Business Week article.)Have > no idea what's in it, but that's been my morning. Beth Lambert Herbalist > & Alchemist http://news.ft.com/cms/s/951c30c8-2865-11da-97c7- 00000e2511c8.html says: Fear aids Tamiflu recovery By Andrew Jack [Financial Times], Published: September 18 2005 17:57 | Last updated: September 18 2005 17:57 A few months ago, Roche was under attack from its development partner Gilead for disappointing sales of the antiviral drug Tamiflu. As fears of a bird flu pandemic have spread, the Swiss pharmaceuticals company is instead facing a more enviable challenge: how to produce enough. See: http://www.tamiflu.com/ and http://www.fda.gov/cder/consumerinfo/druginfo/tamiflu.htm Tamiflu (Roche) is oseltamivir phosphate, said to be an antiviral agent, classified as an Influenza virus neuraminidase inhibitor (NAI). Medline has 344 hits on it. See: http://tinyurl.com/7g2l8 Medline also has 228 hits for the profile: (acute-respiratory OR SARS OR pneumonia OR flu OR influenza) AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) See: http://tinyurl.com/7f6vr However, Medline had NO HITS for the profile: oseltamivir AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) This suggests that no trial has been published to compare the efficacy of oseltamivir versus herbal medicine. Somehow, I think that Roche might balk at funding a largescale trial to address that question. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) Ireland. Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thank you, Z'ev. While your observations about the weather shifts in Arizona are true, natives here tell me it has been a summer of unusual extremes - more humid and rainier than usual, hotter than usual, and now a much earlier and more dramatic change to dry air and cool nights than usual. I think the dramatic nature of the hurricane season this year also points to a shift in typical weather patterns this year towards the more extreme. While I am not well-grounded enough in our ancient texts to know this for certain, I have a sense that alterations away from typical weather patterns play a significant part in the arise of epidemics. By the way, I have been interested to observe that even small changes in local environments here have played a part in the nature of the external invasions my patients are reporting. In Sedona, with the highest elevation and driest, coolest climate, residents have seen mostly sinus issues. Camp Verde, at the lowest elevation with more heat and humidity and stagnant air along the river, has had more deep lung stuff. In Cottonwood, at an elevation between Sedona and Camp Verde with weather in-between the two, I am seeing more stomach bugs. All these varied micro-climates of disease within a 30-minute drive. I am fascinated by this. Maybe I should become an epidemiologist! <zrosenbe wrote: Andrea Beth, Very well said all around. I think Chinese medicine has all the tools we need to prepare for potential epidemics, and your thoughts on weather and seasonal changes are well-taken. Here in California September has been very cool with a lot of cold fronts passing through, and one tropical surge that brought thunderstorms. There have been several low-grade epidemics of colds, stomach bugs, and flu passing through as a result. Whenever there are weather changes here, these respiratory infections and stomach bugs run rampant, it seems. I know this is your first long summer in Arizona, so I did want to point out that a switch from hot humid weather to a dry pattern with warm days and cool nights is the norm there and in New Mexico. According to the warm disease texts, this sets up cold dryness and warm dryness evils to attack, so keep this in mind with any external contractions that are 'passing through'. On Sep 20, 2005, at 11:17 PM, wrote: > Hi Phil and all, > > Perhaps we can start now by addressing wei qi deficiency in our > patients who have that, and deficiency of lung qi and yin where we > see patients with those patterns. As we explore this topic, I > would like to ask for recommendations of high quality patent > remedies, tinctures, and pills that address the patterns we are > likely to see. Many of us are not yet able to afford stock in > quantities of raw herbs, and many patients will not use them. For > me, prepared formulas are more accessible and easier for my > patients' compliance. > > In addition, I think we would be wise to address any unusual > weather patterns we have seen in the last few months in our own > locales, and whatever impact that is having on disease patterns. > For instance, here in Arizona we had an unusually rainy, hot, and > humid summer, with a very abrupt shift a couple of weeks ago into > cold nights, hot days, and dry air. People haven't had time to > acclimate to the weather change and now I am seeing a variety of > lung patterns - wind heat with hot phlegm, wind cold with runny > mucous, and wind dryness with severe headaches and little or no > actual phlegm. How we help our patients resolve these conditions > now will have an impact on how well and strong they are during flu > season. This is a good opportunity to educate our patients and the > public on preparing now, one or two seasons ahead of flu season, to > be strong and healthy when that time comes. > > > > < wrote: > Hi Andrea Beth & All, > > Andrea Beth wrote: > >> I saw a show on 60 minutes last week, which predicts a severe >> worldwide >> pandemic of avian flu either this year or next, with millions of >> deaths. It is predicted to be as bad or worse than the flu >> epidemic of >> 1912. With the understanding that there are no human antibodies yet >> for this virus, it's pretty scary. I'm wondering not only what we >> can >> do for our patients, but what we can do to protect ourselves. Also, >> how do we recognize when a patient has this particular virus? >> > > Some virology experts are predicting catastrophic numbers of deaths > starting early in 2006. I hope (and my gut " feels " ) that they are > wrong, > but herbalists could have a critical role to play if a pandemic > explodes. > > The beauty (some would say weakness) of TCM is that it tries to > identify > the disease TCM PATTERN with its BRANCHES and ROOTS(s) rather > than the western biomedical cause (in this case mutating viruses that > can thrive in people whose defence systems are weakened by a range > of stressors (pollution, malnourishment, poor environmental > conditions, > mental or social stress, etc). > > Having made the TCM DIfferential Dx, appropriate treatments, including > herbal formulas, AP, etc can be selected to try to address the ROOT > and BRANCH, especially strengthen the Weiqi and the affected organs. > > (1) That is why I raised the question on several lists. IMO, we > should be > discussing the various faces of acute respiratory diseases and > (novices > like me) learning the treatment options to handle these. > > The TCM Pharmacopoeia has dozens of antiviral herbs, plus a huge > range of Clear Heat + Clear Toxin + Release Exterior herbs, herbs to > aid YIng and Wei, aid LU, Dispel Wind, Cold & Damp, Resolve Phlegm, > etc. > > (2) There is a second reason for thinking about this NOW. The SARS > scare (a fleabite in comparison to what some pundits predict for the > avian flu pandemic) showed us that effective herbal remedies are > snapped up and hoarded during the critical time. Therefore, it may be > wise to lay in some stocks of the more crtical remedies NOW before > panic buying puts them in short supply next year. > > > Best regards, > > Email: < > > WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm > > Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt > man doing it " > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Beth, Is the garlic used raw or cooked in a formula? < wrote: Hi Beth & All, Beth Lambert wrote: > Talk about timing. I just returned to my office and have been getting > questions about Avian flu all morning. Thanks for the heads up on the > 60 Minutes piece. Just got off the phone with my colleague David > Winston who was asked to discuss the issue in his class last night. He > discussed the anti-viral influenza herbs: andrographis, lonicera, > garlic and isatis. But he also mentioned that in treating acute cases > he would have to see how the disease presents and then potentially look > to some of the more toxic herbs used by the Eclectics to treat febrile > disease such as aconite, belladonna, and gelsemium. In discussions with > one of our customers about the issue this morning she said that she > heard that there is an anti-dote. A little Google work showed that to > be Tamiflu, produced by Hoffman-LaRoche. That there were insufficient > amounts in the US, but that it was available in Canada and Europe. > (Which seemed to be confirmed by an on-line Business Week article.)Have > no idea what's in it, but that's been my morning. Beth Lambert Herbalist > & Alchemist http://news.ft.com/cms/s/951c30c8-2865-11da-97c7- 00000e2511c8.html says: Fear aids Tamiflu recovery By Andrew Jack [Financial Times], Published: September 18 2005 17:57 | Last updated: September 18 2005 17:57 A few months ago, Roche was under attack from its development partner Gilead for disappointing sales of the antiviral drug Tamiflu. As fears of a bird flu pandemic have spread, the Swiss pharmaceuticals company is instead facing a more enviable challenge: how to produce enough. See: http://www.tamiflu.com/ and http://www.fda.gov/cder/consumerinfo/druginfo/tamiflu.htm Tamiflu (Roche) is oseltamivir phosphate, said to be an antiviral agent, classified as an Influenza virus neuraminidase inhibitor (NAI). Medline has 344 hits on it. See: http://tinyurl.com/7g2l8 Medline also has 228 hits for the profile: (acute-respiratory OR SARS OR pneumonia OR flu OR influenza) AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) See: http://tinyurl.com/7f6vr However, Medline had NO HITS for the profile: oseltamivir AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) This suggests that no trial has been published to compare the efficacy of oseltamivir versus herbal medicine. Somehow, I think that Roche might balk at funding a largescale trial to address that question. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) Ireland. Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 On Sep 22, 2005, at 9:44 PM, wrote: > Thank you, Z'ev. > > While your observations about the weather shifts in Arizona are > true, natives here tell me it has been a summer of unusual extremes > - more humid and rainier than usual, hotter than usual, and now a > much earlier and more dramatic change to dry air and cool nights > than usual. I think the dramatic nature of the hurricane season > this year also points to a shift in typical weather patterns this > year towards the more extreme. While I am not well-grounded enough > in our ancient texts to know this for certain, I have a sense that > alterations away from typical weather patterns play a significant > part in the arise of epidemics. > The ancient Chinese were very cognizant of how unusual climate changes effected patterns of unusual occurrences of disease. Wang Bing added several chapters to the Nei Jing corpus on this phenomenon sometimes called 'wu yun liu qi', five movements and six qi, or how changes in heavenly qi effect climate and weather in the prediction of epidemics. The later Wen Bing school developed the concept of 'shi bing' or seasonal diseases. For example, unusually warm weather in late winter is considered to be a dangerous setting for 'wen du/warm toxin' epidemics, such as massive head scourge (da tou wen) and mumps (zha sai). > > By the way, I have been interested to observe that even small > changes in local environments here have played a part in the nature > of the external invasions my patients are reporting. In Sedona, > with the highest elevation and driest, coolest climate, residents > have seen mostly sinus issues. Camp Verde, at the lowest elevation > with more heat and humidity and stagnant air along the river, has > had more deep lung stuff. In Cottonwood, at an elevation between > Sedona and Camp Verde with weather in-between the two, I am seeing > more stomach bugs. All these varied micro-climates of disease > within a 30-minute drive. I am fascinated by this. Maybe I should > become an epidemiologist! > I have noticed the same, both from my years in Colorado/New Mexico and in San Diego. It is fascinating indeed. We certainly need to consider our environment when understanding patterns of health and illness in our patients, especially allergies and respiratory problems. Take care, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 On the TV new show I saw (don't remember if it was 60 Minutes or something similar), they did mention Tamiflu as the only known effective medicine for Avian flu. Interviews with US officials who are supposedly preparing for the epidemic flatly stated that there will not be enough Tamiflu for everyone who contracts Avian flu, whether the epidemic hits this year or next. The Swiss pharmaceutical company says there is more demand for Tamiflu than they can fulfill, and they are doing their best to fill worldwide orders, but somehow the US isn't anywhere near the top of the list for receiving more supplies. I will leave my political comments about this aside, and end my discussion here. < wrote: Hi Beth & All, Beth Lambert wrote: > Talk about timing. I just returned to my office and have been getting > questions about Avian flu all morning. Thanks for the heads up on the > 60 Minutes piece. Just got off the phone with my colleague David > Winston who was asked to discuss the issue in his class last night. He > discussed the anti-viral influenza herbs: andrographis, lonicera, > garlic and isatis. But he also mentioned that in treating acute cases > he would have to see how the disease presents and then potentially look > to some of the more toxic herbs used by the Eclectics to treat febrile > disease such as aconite, belladonna, and gelsemium. In discussions with > one of our customers about the issue this morning she said that she > heard that there is an anti-dote. A little Google work showed that to > be Tamiflu, produced by Hoffman-LaRoche. That there were insufficient > amounts in the US, but that it was available in Canada and Europe. > (Which seemed to be confirmed by an on-line Business Week article.)Have > no idea what's in it, but that's been my morning. Beth Lambert Herbalist > & Alchemist http://news.ft.com/cms/s/951c30c8-2865-11da-97c7- 00000e2511c8.html says: Fear aids Tamiflu recovery By Andrew Jack [Financial Times], Published: September 18 2005 17:57 | Last updated: September 18 2005 17:57 A few months ago, Roche was under attack from its development partner Gilead for disappointing sales of the antiviral drug Tamiflu. As fears of a bird flu pandemic have spread, the Swiss pharmaceuticals company is instead facing a more enviable challenge: how to produce enough. See: http://www.tamiflu.com/ and http://www.fda.gov/cder/consumerinfo/druginfo/tamiflu.htm Tamiflu (Roche) is oseltamivir phosphate, said to be an antiviral agent, classified as an Influenza virus neuraminidase inhibitor (NAI). Medline has 344 hits on it. See: http://tinyurl.com/7g2l8 Medline also has 228 hits for the profile: (acute-respiratory OR SARS OR pneumonia OR flu OR influenza) AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) See: http://tinyurl.com/7f6vr However, Medline had NO HITS for the profile: oseltamivir AND (herbs OR herb OR herbal OR kampo) This suggests that no trial has been published to compare the efficacy of oseltamivir versus herbal medicine. Somehow, I think that Roche might balk at funding a largescale trial to address that question. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) Ireland. Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0) " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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