Criteria for Peer Review in English language journals

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete,

 

Not that I know of. However, people like Elizabeth Hsu, Vivienne Lo

and others writing through the Needham Research Institute are creating

an academic benchmark for journals of peer-review in English.

 

The British medical journal Lancet does publish papers in Chinese

medicine very occasionally ... usually as applied to Western disease

states. So from the paradigm of CM, the answer has to be not yet.

 

You'll have to read in Chinese if you want to steep yourself in CM

clinical research. If you proceed on that pathway, there's a lot. My

office gets a large book of journals per month for the doctors to

read. They've been arriving since the 1980s, so the doctors in my

office haven't missed a beat since they've been in America.

 

Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of peer

review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

 

Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

>

> Hi Emmanuel!

>

> Peer-reviewed!

>

> Are there *any* English language peer-reviewed journals? I wonder what

> the criteria is to be a " peer " in TCM? I think I may have posted this

> question before, if there were any answers I missed them.

>

> Do you, or anyone, have the goods on this?

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

> Hi Pete,

>

> Not that I know of. However, people like Elizabeth Hsu, Vivienne Lo

> and others writing through the Needham Research Institute are creating

> an academic benchmark for journals of peer-review in English.

>

> The British medical journal Lancet does publish papers in Chinese

> medicine very occasionally ... usually as applied to Western disease

> states. So from the paradigm of CM, the answer has to be not yet.

>

> You'll have to read in Chinese if you want to steep yourself in CM

> clinical research. If you proceed on that pathway, there's a lot. My

> office gets a large book of journals per month for the doctors to

> read. They've been arriving since the 1980s, so the doctors in my

> office haven't missed a beat since they've been in America.

>

> Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of peer

> review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

 

Hi Emmanuel!

 

Dr. Phil is on the list so I believe he will know that we invite his input.

 

<http://www.nri.org.uk/index.html>

 

Some of these journals have a problem of wanting to get paid a lot of

money for their $tuff:

 

<http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/bulletin_of_the_history_of\

_medicine/v077/77.3che_chia.html & session=94589735>

Yeah, that will most likely word-wrap.

 

Found an address for Dr. Lo, I cced you a note of inquiry I sent her,

watch for it. I take it you know her? If not, you will soon.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete, Emmanuel & All,

 

> Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of peer

> review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

 

Apologies for my silence - I have been very busy recently.

 

IMO, for maximum acceptance of published results, three referees for

high quality peer-reviewed journals should be certified as:

 

(a) one acknowledged expert TCM practitioner;

 

(b) one acknowledged expert scientist with expertise in well-controlled

pharmacological research design, and

 

© one acknowledged expert scientist with expertise in well-controlled

TCM/Kampo research design.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

 

Ireland.

Tel: (W): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

wrote:

<snip>

> IMO, for maximum acceptance of published results, three referees for

> high quality peer-reviewed journals should be certified as:

>

> (a) one acknowledged expert TCM practitioner;

>

> (b) one acknowledged expert scientist with expertise in well-controlled

> pharmacological research design, and

>

> © one acknowledged expert scientist with expertise in well-controlled

> TCM/Kampo research design.

 

Hi Dr. Phil!

 

Three total, or a larger panel including three with these

qualifications? Acknowledged expert - who acknowledges, could we just

pick three people *we* acknowledge to be of this stature?

 

Do we know three people with these qualifications who aren't such prima

donnas that they would still talk to us? :-)

 

I could set a private discussion area up on my website in a matter of

days, providing my tech guy isn't too busy and give a log-in to each of

the panel members we select. Persons wishing to publish an article in

our journal would email it to me and I would post it in this private

area for discussion.

 

Once the article we would be discussing was posted each panel member

would post his/her reaction to it, back and forth for a while. Finally

one of the panel would say " move to accept or reject the article for

publication " and the panel would post their votes.

 

If the panel agreed to publish the article, we could post it in an

" online journal " as a peer reviewed article, and include an introduction

telling who the peers were and what their qualifications are. If we

steadily did this we would have lots of articles peer-reviewed in just a

few months.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Pete,

 

I can see how you may have misinterpreted my comments below. I was

not suggesting that people at the Needham Research Institute were

actively engaged in creating criteria for peer review. In fact I have

no idea if this thought had crossed their minds. I was suggesting

that their scholarly work represents the type of expertise that would

be required for peer review. My apologies if you felt my comments

misled you in your off list inquiries.

 

Phil, thank you for your response to my request for your thoughts.

 

Best,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

Chinese Medicine , " Emmanuel Segmen "

<susegmen@i...> wrote:

> Hi Pete,

>

> Not that I know of. However, people like Elizabeth Hsu, Vivienne Lo

> and others writing through the Needham Research Institute are creating

> an academic benchmark for journals of peer-review in English.

>

> The British medical journal Lancet does publish papers in Chinese

> medicine very occasionally ... usually as applied to Western disease

> states. So from the paradigm of CM, the answer has to be not yet.

>

> You'll have to read in Chinese if you want to steep yourself in CM

> clinical research. If you proceed on that pathway, there's a lot. My

> office gets a large book of journals per month for the doctors to

> read. They've been arriving since the 1980s, so the doctors in my

> office haven't missed a beat since they've been in America.

>

> Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of peer

> review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

>

> Gratefully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

> >

> > Hi Emmanuel!

> >

> > Peer-reviewed!

> >

> > Are there *any* English language peer-reviewed journals? I wonder what

> > the criteria is to be a " peer " in TCM? I think I may have posted this

> > question before, if there were any answers I missed them.

> >

> > Do you, or anyone, have the goods on this?

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Pete

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

 

Hi Dr. Emmanuel!

 

I will not point the finger about any misunderstandings of semantics.

 

Well, dang the hornet's nest, though. The off list stuff was a bit of an

eyeful, the gist of it being that this is a politicized minefield and

some people who have the most to offer are afraid to offend any of the

major egos.

 

I think one of the most fatal roadblocks to (advanced) learning is ego.

Once you *think* you " know " , you *don't*learn* any more.

 

How about if George (tech guy) and I set up a poll of sorts on the soon

to be published Sun Health Foundation, Inc. website and let people

nominate candidates for peerage? Will that help, to have a list of

candidates? Once we know who they are we can invite them to participate.

 

Oh yeah, I'll also whack together a set of criteria for the sort of

people we would like proposed as peers, and let the list comment on that.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

> Pete,

>

> I can see how you may have misinterpreted my comments below. I was

> not suggesting that people at the Needham Research Institute were

> actively engaged in creating criteria for peer review. In fact I

> have no idea if this thought had crossed their minds. I was

> suggesting that their scholarly work represents the type of expertise

> that would be required for peer review. My apologies if you felt my

> comments misled you in your off list inquiries.

>

> Phil, thank you for your response to my request for your thoughts.

>

> Best, Emmanuel Segmen

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Emmanuel

> Segmen " <susegmen@i...> wrote:

>

>> Hi Pete,

>>

>> Not that I know of. However, people like Elizabeth Hsu, Vivienne

>> Lo and others writing through the Needham Research Institute are

>> creating an academic benchmark for journals of peer-review in

>> English.

>>

>> The British medical journal Lancet does publish papers in Chinese

>> medicine very occasionally ... usually as applied to Western

>> disease states. So from the paradigm of CM, the answer has to be

>> not yet.

>>

>> You'll have to read in Chinese if you want to steep yourself in CM

>> clinical research. If you proceed on that pathway, there's a lot.

>> My office gets a large book of journals per month for the doctors

>> to read. They've been arriving since the 1980s, so the doctors in

>> my office haven't missed a beat since they've been in America.

>>

>> Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of

>> peer review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

>>

>> Gratefully, Emmanuel Segmen

>>

>>> Hi Emmanuel!

>>>

>>> Peer-reviewed!

>>>

>>> Are there *any* English language peer-reviewed journals? I wonder

>>> what the criteria is to be a " peer " in TCM? I think I may have

>>> posted this question before, if there were any answers I missed

>>> them.

>>>

>>> Do you, or anyone, have the goods on this?

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete,

 

Please call me Emmanuel. I don't hold a doctorate. Thank you for

accepting my apologies.

 

Regarding egos and accomplishments, a few of the lead researchers at

places like Harvard, Stanford or U.C. Berkeley have egos that could

eclipse most of the people working in Chinese medicine. Politics and

powerful egos are always a part of human competition. When I was

delivering graduate seminar papers in my own genetic engineering

masters work, my professor admonished me that I was not audacious

enough and that my presentation was far too clearly understood. Maybe

that's why I'm a college instructor today. I have other areas of

masters degree work that required considerably less ego or audacity.

 

At any rate, when Merck Pharmaceutical Company wanted research done

on some Chinese herbs in the early 1990s, they funded research

professors at U.C.L.A. Medical School. The result was statin drugs

for lowering cholesterol. Note that Merck did not establish an in-

house journal to accomplish their goal. They gave money to

recognized research scientists at an established research

institution.

 

Did a part of your education occur at an American university? Did

that university engage in research? If so, you might contact one of

your former professors and see what is involved in writing a paper

for publication. Part of the graduate training in our university

system is a training in how to perform research as well as how to

write for publication. I do not believe that any American college of

Chinese medicine has as yet trained people in this work. I believe

that some are considering this as a possible new mission. My

understanding could be limited in this regard, and maybe Z'ev

Rosenberg could correct any errors in my understanding.

 

Most people who hope to obtain a doctorate and hope to engage in

scientific research and publication have a strong undergraduate

preparation including calculus and statistics. Their graduate work

employs this preparation with ongoing clinical work or lab work in

the research setting.

 

I wish you all the best in rounding up willing professors, clinical

research scientists, recognized English language experts in Chinese

medicine and all of the other infrastructure involved in establishing

a research journal. You might discover in a personal way why the New

England Journal of Medicine charges a large subscription fee. You

might also discover why it is well regarded in the WM profession.

 

I personally feel that the work you wish to accomplish is absolutely

essential for your profession. However, I also suspect that you may

have to consider some additional preliminary steps.

 

I'll leave this thread for now as I have a number of time sensitive

issues to work on. Thank you for engaging me in this conversation.

 

All the Best,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petet@a...> wrote:

> Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

>

> Hi Dr. Emmanuel!

>

> I will not point the finger about any misunderstandings of

semantics.

>

> Well, dang the hornet's nest, though. The off list stuff was a bit

of an

> eyeful, the gist of it being that this is a politicized minefield

and

> some people who have the most to offer are afraid to offend any of

the

> major egos.

>

> I think one of the most fatal roadblocks to (advanced) learning is

ego.

> Once you *think* you " know " , you *don't*learn* any more.

>

> How about if George (tech guy) and I set up a poll of sorts on the

soon

> to be published Sun Health Foundation, Inc. website and let people

> nominate candidates for peerage? Will that help, to have a list of

> candidates? Once we know who they are we can invite them to

participate.

>

> Oh yeah, I'll also whack together a set of criteria for the sort of

> people we would like proposed as peers, and let the list comment on

that.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

> > Pete,

> >

> > I can see how you may have misinterpreted my comments below. I

was

> > not suggesting that people at the Needham Research Institute were

> > actively engaged in creating criteria for peer review. In fact I

> > have no idea if this thought had crossed their minds. I was

> > suggesting that their scholarly work represents the type of

expertise

> > that would be required for peer review. My apologies if you felt

my

> > comments misled you in your off list inquiries.

> >

> > Phil, thank you for your response to my request for your thoughts.

> >

> > Best, Emmanuel Segmen

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " Emmanuel

> > Segmen " <susegmen@i...> wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Pete,

> >>

> >> Not that I know of. However, people like Elizabeth Hsu, Vivienne

> >> Lo and others writing through the Needham Research Institute are

> >> creating an academic benchmark for journals of peer-review in

> >> English.

> >>

> >> The British medical journal Lancet does publish papers in

Chinese

> >> medicine very occasionally ... usually as applied to Western

> >> disease states. So from the paradigm of CM, the answer has to be

> >> not yet.

> >>

> >> You'll have to read in Chinese if you want to steep yourself in

CM

> >> clinical research. If you proceed on that pathway, there's a

lot.

> >> My office gets a large book of journals per month for the doctors

> >> to read. They've been arriving since the 1980s, so the doctors

in

> >> my office haven't missed a beat since they've been in America.

> >>

> >> Check with on what he thinks would be the criteria of

> >> peer review. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.

> >>

> >> Gratefully, Emmanuel Segmen

> >>

> >>> Hi Emmanuel!

> >>>

> >>> Peer-reviewed!

> >>>

> >>> Are there *any* English language peer-reviewed journals? I

wonder

> >>> what the criteria is to be a " peer " in TCM? I think I may have

> >>> posted this question before, if there were any answers I missed

> >>> them.

> >>>

> >>> Do you, or anyone, have the goods on this?

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete & All,

 

> Hi Phil, Three total, or a larger panel including three with these

> qualifications? Acknowledged expert - who acknowledges, could we just

> pick three people *we* acknowledge to be of this stature?

 

The MAIN criterion of " an acknowledged expert " is a solid portfolio of

publications in other peer-reviewed journals.

 

Conventional journals often have a panel of dozens of reviewers

/referees. The editor sends manuscripts to those people who have a

publication track record in specialist fields, for example, in osteosurgery,

metabolic disorders, allergies, viral diseases, etc.

 

IMO, if there are many papers to review, the panel will need many more

than 3 people!

 

I am willing to help.If you are stuck for reviewers of ACUPUNCTURE

papers.

 

I am still studying herbal medicine and do not consider myself expert

enough in that to review herbal manuscripts at this point.

 

PS: It would be a nice gesture if referees received complementary

copies of the journal.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt

man doing it "

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

 

<snipped here and there>

 

Hi Emmanuel!

 

Inline

 

> my professor admonished me that I was not audacious

> enough and that my presentation was far too clearly understood.

 

" too clearly understood " !!!!!!!!!

 

> Did a part of your education occur at an American university? Did

> that university engage in research? If so, you might contact one of

> your former professors

 

Well, yes, but that was almost 40 years ago.

 

> Most people who hope to obtain a doctorate and hope to engage in

> scientific research and publication have a strong undergraduate

> preparation including calculus and statistics.

 

I have statistics but not calculus. TCM however, is as much art and

history as it is science. Western medicine is more art and history than

they like to admit.

 

> I wish you all the best in rounding up willing professors, clinical

> research scientists, recognized English language experts in Chinese

> medicine and all of the other infrastructure involved in establishing

> a research journal. You might discover in a personal way why the New

> England Journal of Medicine charges a large subscription fee.

 

If the people who think this is needed are willing to serve in a

volunteer capacity we might be able to present this to the world at a

rate that TCM students and faculty can afford. The key to doing it

efficiently is to make it mostly online, no paper and printing - unless

of course, someone prints it out on his/her own printer. This also makes

possible keyword searching of the material.

 

> I personally feel that the work you wish to accomplish is absolutely

> essential for your profession. However, I also suspect that you may

> have to consider some additional preliminary steps.

 

Sorry to see you go just when it was getting good. I am meeting with

George (tech guy) tomorrow. We can have a web site up in a week after

deciding to do it.

 

Regards,

 

Pete