Twin breech presentation 35 weeks

[Guest guest]

Hi all

Here's one--a friend, 28 yr old, second birth, petite build has been

suspiciously large throughout with some yang rising/yin fire?

dizziness months 5-7. Per phone, I had her increase her food intake,

decrease portions and eat every two hours the last two months which

alleviated her dizziness. We discussed the possiblity of twins but

ultrasounds and dopplers were negative. She never reported for

treatment. Just found out she was carrying breech twins at 35 weeks.

I referenced several books but Zita West was the only one who

mentioned about twins with regard to the standard moxa protocol. She

mentioned that it was contraindicated because of possible " heads

locking " and cord compression with the contractions which cause the

version. She also mentioned that intervention with moxa on breeches

was contraindicated for Rh neg, which this mother is, because of

possible blood mixing. My questions are:

1. Sounds like she's right about the moxa intervention, no?

2. Are the several herbal interventions I've found also

contraindicated for the same reason?

3. Any other ideas?

She presents with a swollen pale tongue with now faded red spots all

over the tip and sides like strawberry. She also has a 2 year old

who nursed during the pregnancy although " not a lot " . She said she

felt " bad " when the baby nursed. She's temperamental and easily

angered (when not pregnant), doesn't have the greatest diet although

she's quite small (4'11 " 98 pounds before). Doesn't eat a lot of

veggies--lots of fruit, burgers etc. Now, at 35 weeks she feels good

(the babies are fully formed and 5 pounds each or so). She may just

not have the spleen for this one. She says the rules are that if she

goes into labor before 36 weeks, the midwife is out with auto C-

section. If they are both still breech at term, C-section. If only

one is breech, the midwife is allowed to attempt the birth. I guess

this is Texas law.

Her first labour was 42 hours with n/v starting at 30 hours but was

easily controled with acupressure at P6 with each contraction.

Otherwise, one of us pressed Bl 32 at the same time and she (we)

made it through to a normal delivery. BTW, the pain control you can

get with the Bl 32 acupressure is really quite impressive if it is

done consistently throughout labor. And because the pain is less,

the patient lasts longer and stays more focused, happy and confident.

This mom is ferocious about doing everything safely possible to have

a natural, midwife/acupressure birth. However, I must say that even

if someone says it's ok, I doubt I'll try it. Thought it would be a

good discussion anyway.

 

Regards, Shanna

[Guest guest]

Shanna,

 

Hi, I'll be curious to hear other members weigh in on this one. My

first inclination is taht this is EXACTLY where western medical

intervention shines. It is wonderful that the tradition of Chinese

medicine has been preserved, and has served humanity so profoundy for

as long as it has. However, there are certain conditions for which

modern western medicine is simply peerless. I have not treated this

condition, but I agree with Ms. West that there is probably a danger

of cord twining when you attempt to turn breech twins.

I would counsel such a patient that scheduling a c-section with a

competent obstetric surgeon is not a case of western

medicine " winning " over more natural methods. Rather, it is an

opportunity to manage an unfortunate situation in the safest, and

most effective way possible. Thanks goodness it is available! Lots of

women and would be newborns throughout history have undoubtedly lost

their lives in similar circumstances.

 

Good luck. Let us know the outcome.

 

- David Karchmer

[Guest guest]

Dear Shanna

 

> She also mentioned that intervention with moxa on breeches was

> contraindicated for Rh neg, which this mother is, because of

> possible blood mixing.

>

Is the father Rh+? If babies (father) are also Rh neg, then I cannot see why

blood mixing would be a problem?

As for heads interlocking, I don't know. I guess that in theory it could well

happen. At times breech babies do turn themselves the right way round... So why

not twins? And then heads interlocking could happen just as well as with moxa.

But I fully understand that you don't want to risk being held responsible for

any problems that might happen from moxa.

 

Artemis

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

hi, hmmm...

had one of these last year. Loads of moxa on Bl.67 turned

one then the other - constitutional tx helped also - plus (PLUS) mum

and dad talking to babies telling them to turn and to keep the cord

clear from around a neck. Magic!

 

I attended the birth as well - it all went fabulously smoothly except

 

1 When consultant came in to sort out a drip to bring the second one

along. His energy froze the mum - took a couple of needles plus some

herbs to warm her up again

 

2 When he stuck the needle (drip) in and when he broke the waters -

both these things disrupted the process and occasioned more

intervention on my part. Bloody drip didn't work anyway and second

baby came anyway.

 

To be fair the lady was under my care all through her pregnancy with

acup plus herbs and so was well prepared for the birthing. Jus my

experience

 

 

Stephen

 

--

Stephen MacAllan

Lic.Ac., B.Ac., M.Ac., M.H.,

Cert.B.E.R.M., M.H.

M.B.Ac.C.,M.A.M.H.

Naturopath, Acupuncturist,

Herbalist, Kosmed practitioner

Vega-tester

www.stephenmacallan.co.uk

www.stephenandphilipnaturally.co.uk

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