Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Michael, > A second question I have relates to a > post-menopausal patient that > was put on Fosamax. She does not tolerate it > well and she wants an > herbal alternative. She has had a bone scan > which indicated early > stages of decalcification. Her physician really > pushed HRT a few > years ago, but she refused. She has no overt > signs of pattern > abnormality related to this I'm confused. You say " she does not tolerate it well " and that " she has no overt signs of pattern abnormality " . First, this seems to suggest that there is some sort of pattern normality, and though I can make guesses as to what you might mean, it's part of what's confusing me. Second, if she does not tolerate her medication well, what happens? I presume there's some sort of manifestation that she experiences. As I look over what you said, it's not real clear to me what the " this " refers to. Do you mean she has no signs and symptoms whatsoever, i.e., you can detect no pattern of abnormality? Or have you diagnosed her as conforming to some standard pattern and there is nothing to suggest any sort of abnormal interpretation of this pattern? I don't even know if my question is clear. You see, I'm confused. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Jim, > > This is a theme that we've been working > > to develop in CAOM. I've just handed over > > to production the next batch of papers > > from last year's meeting at Exeter University > > (outside of London) conducted by Steve Birch > > Richard Hammerschlag and a dozen or so of > > their colleagues in the field of research > > into traditional forms of medicine from > > East Asia. > > > Is this the project we donated to last year or > so? Yes. The meeting was organized by Steve Birch and his colleagues and supported by a number of organizations and individuals. I don't have the whole list in front of me. I think Steve is planning on a follow-up meeting next year and would like to see it become a regular bi-annual get together. Alon referred to this as good news, and I think it's a very valuable enterprise that will pay dividends to any and all who support it. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Marco, Alon, Guy, and Everyone, Below are some quotes from recent posts that all touch on issues related to language, translation and understanding/application of Chinese medical knowledge. I thought I'd lump them together and try to make one hopefully cogent reply. > > What I mean is that as with anything else there > is a lot of background information needed to > actually understand the concept within the > meaning. This says it very well, Marco. Just seems like basic, common sense to me. > > The idea that one must read Chinese in order to > do these studies implies that > one must be able to read English in order to do > studies on pharmaceuticals > and that German speaking researchers would > thereby be at a disadvantage. I > don't quite see why this would be the case. It's not the case, however the circumstances surrounding the translation of English language medical literature into other Western languages cannot be compared with the circumstances surrounding the translation of Chinese medical literature into English. Also, I highly suspect that many if not most scientific investigators, regardless of their native language, can read English language medical literature. I think this widespread competency in reading English arose from the widespread recognition of the need to read English in order to have access to the highest quality information on many subjects. The persistent resistance to the study of Chinese medical language in some quarters is that it essentially denies the corresponding need to be able to read Chinese in order to have access to the highest quality information on many, many aspects of traditional Chinese medicine. > > The fact that a whole class set through this is > just another example of poor training of the > profession > Alon Indeed. And the widespread inability to read the language and literature that constitutes the vast majority of everything that has ever been written on the subject is another such example. > > > > Howe remain fascinated with the idea that one > must read Chinese to understand fully Chinese > herbology > >>>>Me too. I am still awaiting a single good > example of a principal that can only be > understood in Chinese You have asked for this many times, Alon; and I and others have responded to your requests. Typically the discussion ends then. I'm quite willing to discuss the point at any length to which you or anyone else wants to discuss it. I will discuss it in general terms or in terms of specific examples. I have written and published a good deal on this, in fact we wrote a whole book about one such principle, providing over two hundred pages of explanations of the Chinese perspectives on qi4 as an example of how important such perspectives are for anyone who wants to understand what qi4 is. Is it important to understand what qi4 is in order to practice Chinese medicine? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2002 Report Share Posted August 18, 2002 this, infact we wrote a whole book about onesuch principle, providing over twohundred pages of explanations of theChinese perspectives on qi4 as anexample of how important such perspectivesare for anyone who wants to understandwhat qi4 is.>>>>Well Ken as much as i enjoyed reading your book it did not aid my understanding on CM. And I have still to be given a good example Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 During the past several months I have treated a handful of women with various complaints of menopausal symptoms. This is my first experience with using herbs to treat menopausal complaints. I have treated each uniquely according to their pattern. There is one commonality following the initiation of treatment. Each, without exception has begun to menstruate more regularly than they had prior to treatment. Some had not had a period in months. Since the return of menses coincided with the reduction or complete disappearance of their presenting complaints, I interpreted this as a positive sign. I attributed the return of menses to an improved balance of yin, yang, blood and qi (as I was treating various combinations of these). While this makes total sense to me, I have been unable to directly verify this in any text I have. Can anyone with more experience help me out? A second question I have relates to a post-menopausal patient that was put on Fosamax. She does not tolerate it well and she wants an herbal alternative. She has had a bone scan which indicated early stages of decalcification. Her physician really pushed HRT a few years ago, but she refused. She has no overt signs of pattern abnormality related to this (perhaps if I were more skilled/experienced I could detect some). In any case, my question is can I assume that in the presence of her post-menopausal status the results of the bone scan point to kidney essence deficiency and approach her from that perspective (i.e. nourish kidney essence)? (Actually that probably poses a broader question of how much one looks at western medical tests to guide ones TCM pattern diagnosis). I would appreciate any comments or thoughts. Thanks in advance for your input. Michael Buyze, L.Ac. Michael, I have spoken to several women who have not been able to tolerate the fosamax also. I've recommended calcium as an alternative but I wonder if pearl (Zhen Zhu Mu) with something like Gu Sui Bu, Niu Xi and Xu Duan in the formula would help. Anyone? Isaac Cohen discussed in his menopause lecture last year at CSOMA using alcoholic extracts of Zhi Mu and one other herb which escapes me at the moment for hot flashes associated with menopause. Women can just keep a tincture bottle in their purse and take some when they notice the hot flashes. Seems to work. Colleen A second question I have relates to a post-menopausal patient that was put on Fosamax. She does not tolerate it well and she wants an herbal alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 What TCM Pattern would that be? How would one have diagnosed it without WM research on the composition of the ear fluid? Chinese medicine should change as new discoveries are made. For example, suppose the acid reflux was due to Stomach Fire. The new symptoms for that pattern might include recurrent ear infections, especially in children. Thus, future doctors would be able to treat that problem if they didn't have access to laboratories. In the old days, sensitive physicians might have been able to diagnose this problem energetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Yep, moderate all messages. But no one wants to do this as its too > much work. > > Can't say I blame them. I got fed up with it after a while. Hi Attilio! Wouldn't be that bad for a committee of, say, a dozen. Each taking a few shifts per week. Or use Mailman - has " Autoresponse Governors " . Never get an autoresponse on Mailman lists. <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/> Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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