Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

[Guest guest]

I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

pregnancy.

After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

pregnancy.

Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

wrong.

 

PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

to hear `em.

 

David Karchmer

The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

Austin, Texas

www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

 

as I mentioned earlier on this list, I have met with a woman in Hong Kong,

who was a famous acupuncturist in Taiwan. She is a friend of my wife. At the

moment, I can only remember her surname, Zhang.

Her specialty was abortions. She made a fortune doing this kind of work in

Taiwan.

In fact, right now she regrets doing so many abortions.

She is an old lady now, and I take it that at the time she was practicing in

Taiwan, acupuncture was the only method available.

Having met with her personally, and hearing her speak about this, I must

disagree with you. Acupuncture can and does induce abortions if that is what

you want to do. It's more or less the life story of this woman.

 

Regards,

 

Tom.

----

 

David Karchmer

08/23/05 13:46:38

Chinese Medicine

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

pregnancy.

After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

pregnancy.

Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

wrong.

 

PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

to hear `em.

 

David Karchmer

The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

Austin, Texas

www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

http://groups.

com and adjust accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tom,

 

I would strongly suspect that there was an herbal component to her

protocols.

 

David Karchmer

[Guest guest]

Hi David and all,

I was glad to read your post.

I feel if a baby is ready to be born acupuncture is really useful to

stimulate the rightful process on the so-called due date and after.....

yet, as you say using also counterindicated (during pregnancy) points

sometimes will not bring about labor.

(Could it be that after all we cannot control everything...........?)

Many times acupuncture has absolutely fascilitated labor. I always feel

comfortable treating pregnant women for other issues during their pregnancy.

In my twenty years of experience I have never had an unwanted response in

terms of premature labor or miscarriage.

I use KI 9 twice during pregnancy (end of 3rd and end of 6th month) (to

prevent negative genetics to take hold in the fetus - famous " happy baby

points " )

Four weeks befor the due date I begin a series of weekly " easier labor,

happy baby points "

Sp6, GB34, Bl60 and St36

(nourish Yin, relax muscles and tendons and, relax uterus and back, and

tonify Qi)

I have used this protocol for the last twenty years as I learned it from my

teacher Dr. Hannes Lange, in Totnes,UK, he was a student of Van Beuren

and long term friend of Giovanni Macciocia.

 

all the Best to all (always glad to be part of this group)

Verena

 

 

-

" Tom Verhaeghe " <verhaeghe_tom

<Chinese Medicine >

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:16 AM

Re: Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

 

> Hi David,

>

> as I mentioned earlier on this list, I have met with a woman in Hong Kong,

> who was a famous acupuncturist in Taiwan. She is a friend of my wife. At

> the

> moment, I can only remember her surname, Zhang.

> Her specialty was abortions. She made a fortune doing this kind of work in

> Taiwan.

> In fact, right now she regrets doing so many abortions.

> She is an old lady now, and I take it that at the time she was practicing

> in

> Taiwan, acupuncture was the only method available.

> Having met with her personally, and hearing her speak about this, I must

> disagree with you. Acupuncture can and does induce abortions if that is

> what

> you want to do. It's more or less the life story of this woman.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tom.

> ----

>

> David Karchmer

> 08/23/05 13:46:38

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

>

> I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

> acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

> women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

> our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

> they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

> pregnancy.

> After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

> DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

> with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

> told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

> from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

> cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

> One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

> am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

> pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

> onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

> ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

> pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

> Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

> am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

> labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

> safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

> mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

> UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

> pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

> pregnancy.

> Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

> are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

> intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

> the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

> extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

> course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

> wrong.

>

> PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

> to hear `em.

>

> David Karchmer

> The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

> Austin, Texas

> www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

>

 

> http://babel.altavista.com/

>

> http://groups.

> com and adjust accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics,

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----

 

David Karchmer

08/23/05 14:57:38

Chinese Medicine

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

Tom,

 

I would strongly suspect that there was an herbal component to her

protocols.

 

David Karchmer

 

 

(Tom) No, I just asked my wife and Ms. Zhang only did acupuncture, she's not

very knowledgeable about herbs.

Btw I also needle pregnant women- I just avoid points like GB 21. Ms. Zhang told

me to even avoid massage on the point.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I was also thinking there was probably an herbal component. It's

interesting in this medicine some people seem to have insight into

some things and get results where others can't. Why can't we all do

it? Perhaps she's using some different points?

 

A friend of mine described what he termed the " keeper of the keys " .

The basic idea is that if the guardians of the style of treatment

allow you to access the methods then you can use them. It explains

why we can get results well in some areas and not in others.

 

But Tom, if you do know what treatment she did I'd be interested in

knowing.

 

Brian Beard

 

Chinese Medicine , " Tom Verhaeghe "

<verhaeghe_tom@h...> wrote:

>

>

> ----

>

> David Karchmer

> 08/23/05 14:57:38

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

>

> Tom,

>

> I would strongly suspect that there was an herbal component to her

> protocols.

>

> David Karchmer

>

>

> (Tom) No, I just asked my wife and Ms. Zhang only did acupuncture,

she's not

> very knowledgeable about herbs.

> Btw I also needle pregnant women- I just avoid points like GB 21.

Ms. Zhang told me to even avoid massage on the point.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am glad David has offered his opinion on this.

" After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. "

 

I also am of the opinion that causing miscarriage is much more the exception

than the rule. What it really comes down to, IMO, is the RELATIVE DEGREE of

risk. If one look back over Chinese culture, many of their arts involved a

desire to master the most subtle of levels. I suspect that over dozens of

generations, it was observed that certain points seemed to cause miscarriage. I

suspect this would only happen in those cases that were already on the verge of

miscarrying; the extra nudge of a certain acupuncture treatment making the

difference. Maybe this was a one-in-a-million thing. But to those intent on the

most subtle levels; one-in-a-million is still one.

 

Did you know that it was believed in China that pregnant women should not do

certain work in the kitchen such as cut-up a chicken because the qi involved in

this might harm the fetus? We might scoff at this, but whose to say? This has to

do with a concern over very subtle levels of qi. Now - even though I am open to

the idea that the actions (qi) of an expectant Mom could transfer to a

developing fetus, that doesn't mean I council my pregnant patients to stay out

of the kitchen. Like David, I would like to see us do better at putting some of

the contraindications into a relative perspective - especially considering that

a well done treatment can be of such benefit to an expectant Mom.

 

As for the practitioner who made much of her living performing abortions with

acupuncture, I suspect that was her special art - whatever the karmic

ramifications of that art may be - and not just the mechanical function of

specific acupuncture points.

 

Matt Bauer

 

 

 

-

David Karchmer

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:44 AM

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

 

I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

pregnancy.

After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

pregnancy.

Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

wrong.

 

PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

to hear `em.

 

David Karchmer

The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

Austin, Texas

www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click

on this link

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My school did not want us to deal with pregnancy due to fear of lawsuits if the

woman miscarried for any reason, they would sue the school.

 

 

Matt Bauer <acu.guy wrote:

I am glad David has offered his opinion on this.

" After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. "

 

I also am of the opinion that causing miscarriage is much more the exception

than the rule. What it really comes down to, IMO, is the RELATIVE DEGREE of

risk. If one look back over Chinese culture, many of their arts involved a

desire to master the most subtle of levels. I suspect that over dozens of

generations, it was observed that certain points seemed to cause miscarriage. I

suspect this would only happen in those cases that were already on the verge of

miscarrying; the extra nudge of a certain acupuncture treatment making the

difference. Maybe this was a one-in-a-million thing. But to those intent on the

most subtle levels; one-in-a-million is still one.

 

Did you know that it was believed in China that pregnant women should not do

certain work in the kitchen such as cut-up a chicken because the qi involved in

this might harm the fetus? We might scoff at this, but whose to say? This has to

do with a concern over very subtle levels of qi. Now - even though I am open to

the idea that the actions (qi) of an expectant Mom could transfer to a

developing fetus, that doesn't mean I council my pregnant patients to stay out

of the kitchen. Like David, I would like to see us do better at putting some of

the contraindications into a relative perspective - especially considering that

a well done treatment can be of such benefit to an expectant Mom.

 

As for the practitioner who made much of her living performing abortions with

acupuncture, I suspect that was her special art - whatever the karmic

ramifications of that art may be - and not just the mechanical function of

specific acupuncture points.

 

Matt Bauer

 

 

 

-

David Karchmer

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:44 AM

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

 

I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

pregnancy.

After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

pregnancy.

Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

wrong.

 

PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

to hear `em.

 

David Karchmer

The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

Austin, Texas

www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click

on this link

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Lee - the only way one could win such a lawsuit is if experts in the profession

agreed that the practitioner did something improper or contraindicated. That is

one of the reasons I feel we need more dialog on this issue. Having

practitioners believe such practices are more dangerous then they truly are

makes us all more venerable to lawsuits. - Matt Bauer

-

lee tritt

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:12 PM

Re: Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

 

My school did not want us to deal with pregnancy due to fear of lawsuits if

the woman miscarried for any reason, they would sue the school.

 

 

Matt Bauer <acu.guy wrote:

I am glad David has offered his opinion on this.

" After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. "

 

I also am of the opinion that causing miscarriage is much more the exception

than the rule. What it really comes down to, IMO, is the RELATIVE DEGREE of

risk. If one look back over Chinese culture, many of their arts involved a

desire to master the most subtle of levels. I suspect that over dozens of

generations, it was observed that certain points seemed to cause miscarriage. I

suspect this would only happen in those cases that were already on the verge of

miscarrying; the extra nudge of a certain acupuncture treatment making the

difference. Maybe this was a one-in-a-million thing. But to those intent on the

most subtle levels; one-in-a-million is still one.

 

Did you know that it was believed in China that pregnant women should not do

certain work in the kitchen such as cut-up a chicken because the qi involved in

this might harm the fetus? We might scoff at this, but whose to say? This has to

do with a concern over very subtle levels of qi. Now - even though I am open to

the idea that the actions (qi) of an expectant Mom could transfer to a

developing fetus, that doesn't mean I council my pregnant patients to stay out

of the kitchen. Like David, I would like to see us do better at putting some of

the contraindications into a relative perspective - especially considering that

a well done treatment can be of such benefit to an expectant Mom.

 

As for the practitioner who made much of her living performing abortions with

acupuncture, I suspect that was her special art - whatever the karmic

ramifications of that art may be - and not just the mechanical function of

specific acupuncture points.

 

Matt Bauer

 

 

 

-

David Karchmer

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:44 AM

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

 

I'd like to throw my two cents into the conversation regarding

acupuncture during pregnancy. Our clinic specializes in fertility and

women's health, and I have treated A LOT of pregnant women. In fact,

our fertility program requires that once women become pregnant, that

they continue their treatment for the first 12 weeks of their

pregnancy.

After all is said and done, I honestly believe that the CAUTION

DURING PREGNANCY argument is a complete myth. This country is filled

with acupuncturists who fear pregnant women because we have all been

told that acupuncture will cause a miscarriage. I would love to hear

from just one person that their acupuncture treatment actually did

cause a miscarriage. I have NEVER heard of this actually occurring.

One of the things that we commonly treat for is labor induction. I

am talking a about full term (or more often past full term)

pregnancies. Let me tell you, it can be very difficult to cause the

onset of labor with acupuncture, even when the woman is practically

ready to pop. In some cases, I use every " contraindicated during

pregnancy " point there is, with the strongest stimulation possible.

Still, no labor. This is not always the case, of course, but what I

am trying to communicate is that it is not easy to cause the onset of

labor with acupuncture even at full term! And, from this we can

safely deduce the following: Unless a pregnancy is in danger, or the

mother-to-be is sick with a pre-existing condition, it is EXTREMELY

UNLIKELY that acupuncture will cause any kind of damage to the

pregnancy, or will induce a miscarriage in an otherwise healthy

pregnancy.

Does this mean that we should all throw caution to the wind when we

are working with patients who are pregnant? No. Of course

intelligence should be applied. But what it does mean is that

the " fear of God " that acupuncture should be performed only with

extreme caution during pregnancy that gets instilled during the

course of our education is at best overstated, and at worst flat out

wrong.

 

PS: Send me your " acupuncture caused an abortion " stories. I'd love

to hear `em.

 

David Karchmer

The Cornerstone Acupuncture Center

Austin, Texas

www.thecornerstoneclinic.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Acupuncture can and does induce abortions if that is what

you want to do. It's more or less the life story of this woman.

>>>>>

Did she insert the needle directly into the uterus? Some Japanese have done this

in the past. I know of a midwife LAc that tried to induce ab on many healthy

women and according to her you cannot induce one unless the women is likely to

abort anyway. She tried the usual points, she never tried entering the uterus

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

OK Now I'm really confused! When you say " Did she insert the needle

directly into the uterus? Some Japanese have done this in the past, " do

you mean that the uterus was punctured anteriorly by way of deep

insertion through the lower abdomen? Or are you referring to a

technique involving vaginal entry and piercing the cervix with an

acupuncture needle? Please clarify.

 

- David Kachmer

Austin, TX

[Guest guest]

do

you mean that the uterus was punctured anteriorly by way of deep

insertion through the lower abdomen?

>>>>I believe so. I have never seen the details of the technique just heard of

it when was in Japan

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, that seems pretty intense!! I'd love to hear some other opinions

about this from the comunity, but I would certainly question whether

such a technique would even fall under the definition of acupuncture.

This seems more like minor surgery performed with acupuncture

instruments than any kind of Meridian/Qi-based modality.

At this point, isn't the acupuncture needle just a glorified coat

hanger??

 

David Karchmer

[Guest guest]

This seems more like minor surgery performed with acupuncture

instruments than any kind of Meridian/Qi-based modality.

>>>>>>You need to remember that the classics do refer to needling into the depth

of the tissues to be treated. Surgical procedures were part of acu/moxa. There

are many ref to needling tissues and not acupoints or channels.

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi David

IMO it is a gloified coathanger sometimes.If the practitioner ALSO searches

the affected channel pairing as in TAI YANG or SHAO YANG then not just the

coathanger treatment but a release of distant part of the affected channel

this becomes an acupuncture approach which I believe is close to how the

channels were formulated and navigated.It does not always work for me,

sometimes, surgery may be needed in extreme cases.I have helped many many

patients to avoid sugery with this approach.

Ray ford

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David

Karchmer

Wednesday, 24 August 2005 12:43 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Acupuncture during pregnancy? YES. It is safe.

 

Well, that seems pretty intense!! I'd love to hear some other opinions about

this from the comunity, but I would certainly question whether such a

technique would even fall under the definition of acupuncture.

This seems more like minor surgery performed with acupuncture instruments

than any kind of Meridian/Qi-based modality.

At this point, isn't the acupuncture needle just a glorified coat

hanger??

 

David Karchmer

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

But Tom, if you do know what treatment she did I'd be interested in

knowing.

 

Brian Beard

 

(Tom) Brian, I'm sorry but I don't know exactly. We don't have her current

contact address either. But I promise that when we go back to Hong Kong I

will try to find out.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

As for the practitioner who made much of her living performing abortions

with acupuncture, I suspect that was her special art - whatever the karmic

ramifications of that art may be - and not just the mechanical function of

specific acupuncture points.

 

Matt Bauer

 

(Tom)Off topic, but the woman did lose almost all of her money when she came to

Hong Kong. Her suitcase full of money was stolen.

 

 

[Guest guest]

In the Shanghai text there's a section on artificial abortion.

Prescription 1 is LI4, SP6, DU1, SP9. Du1 is with a three inch needle

with strong stim so it radiates into the lumbosacral region, and SP9 is

needled up w/ stimulation so it radiates up into the inguinal canal.

Prescription 2 is LI4, SP6, UB67.

 

Brian Beard