blood in the channels

[Guest guest]

I have been having a continuing discussion with a fellow student about

the concept of " qi is the commander of blood, blood is the mother of

qi. " Especially as regards statements in, among others the Su Wen and

Ling Shu concerning blood in the channels. Mr. Kendell in his book " dao

of chinese medicine " would be quick to say that the meridian lines are

not, in actual fact, a thing (in contrast to an artery, which can be

palpated). In fact there are many scholars who would agree with this

line of thought. The question is thus: if blood is in the channel, how

can it be seen? In other words, if i was asked by a patient, " show me

where the blood is moving in the meridian, " i most certainly could not

do this. I could, of course, point to different theories and

constructions, such as the electric potential of each RBC, but i could

not propose a rationale to support this statement. In contrast, i could

say that qi is in the arterial/venous system as the motivator and

function of the flow, but i could not substantiate anything beyond that.

I am curious of others thoughts on this from on the list,

Regards, Tymothy

 

 

" Everything can be resolved with willingness and love. Love is the

ultimate healer and liberator, because only love is vast enough to

embrace its opposite. " G. Hendricks

 

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

[Guest guest]

I think you might want to review the published research of Dr Soh (S Korea)

for a possible physiological structure that runs in and through various

vessels, including blood vessels. I find the idea of qi controlling the

blood makes a lot more sense when considered in light of this system, which

seems to follow the jing luo pathways and connects to the organs as well.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " Tymothy " <jellyphish

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

> blood in the channels

>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:17:14 -0700

>

>I have been having a continuing discussion with a fellow student about

>the concept of " qi is the commander of blood, blood is the mother of

>qi. " Especially as regards statements in, among others the Su Wen and

>Ling Shu concerning blood in the channels. Mr. Kendell in his book " dao

>of chinese medicine " would be quick to say that the meridian lines are

>not, in actual fact, a thing (in contrast to an artery, which can be

>palpated). In fact there are many scholars who would agree with this

>line of thought. The question is thus: if blood is in the channel, how

>can it be seen? In other words, if i was asked by a patient, " show me

>where the blood is moving in the meridian, " i most certainly could not

>do this. I could, of course, point to different theories and

>constructions, such as the electric potential of each RBC, but i could

>not propose a rationale to support this statement. In contrast, i could

>say that qi is in the arterial/venous system as the motivator and

>function of the flow, but i could not substantiate anything beyond that.

>I am curious of others thoughts on this from on the list,

>Regards, Tymothy

>

>

> " Everything can be resolved with willingness and love. Love is the

>ultimate healer and liberator, because only love is vast enough to

>embrace its opposite. " G. Hendricks

>

>--

>http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:17:14 -0700, " Tymothy " <jellyphish wrote:

>>…. The question is thus: if blood is in the channel, how can it be seen?

 

For instance, Luo vessel activity can be seen, visible as patches of

spider-vein-like surface vessels, bluish or reddish, which come and go (as

distinct from things like varicosities, which are larger, and more fixed).

In particular, after appropriate bleeding/plum blossom, they will

disappear, along with the associated Luo signs/symptoms. That is, when

visible, they signal Luo " full " as a PF (pathological factor, usually EPF

or external PF / xie) is attempting to penetrate from the WeiQi/sinew

channel level into the YingQi/primary meridian (PM) levels. The Ying puts

up a fight, trying to hold/block the PF, manifesting in the little vessels

(and often some form of pain - the other of the two classical hallmarks of

Luo pathology). Bleeding, together with other appropriate Luo Tx needling,

enables release, dispersal of the PF back out where the Wei can throw it

off the surface. To round-out this picture, Luo " empty " is taken as vacuity

at the surface as the PF has drained, penetrated deeper into the PM/Ying

level. In this case, bleeding is followed by moxa, i.e. opening the surface

and warming below (moxa's far-infrared penetrating quality) to invigorate,

empower the deeper Ying (qi & blood) to push out the PF from a deeper level.

 

This vignette (an interpretation of Luo channel function and treatment)

also serves to illustrate that the different channel systems represent (as

metaphors) different aspects of physiological and pathological behavior (as

well as treatment reactivity). They don't have a common currency at the

level of bio-mechanical explanation. (I.e. they're not " things " , as Tymothy

mentions in connection with Deke Kendell's and others' ideas.)

 

In fact the different channel " systems " (better perhaps " phenomena " )

illustrate an essential comprehensiveness and flexibility in the CM way of

regarding physiology/pathology/treatment. The WeiQi level of the sinew

channels represents the active (movement) and reactive (autonomic response)

interaction with the external environment. The YingQi level of the PM

represents the internal, post-natal homeostatic energy model, powered by

constantly renewed, day-in and day-out breath and food. (The Luo vessels

represent an interface between these two layers.) The YuanQi and 8

extraordinary/curious channels represent constitutional givens and the

processes influencing them (effects during development and mature life -

not just genetics). (The divergent/distinct channels appear to deal with

WeiQi - YuanQi interactions, and their spectrum of pathologies can be seen

as taking up where the Luo model leaves off; the Luo progress from the

Lungs through the horary sequence, and then into the Ren and Du, i.e. into

the Yuan level.)

 

Thinking about all this brings to mind Paul Unschuld's use of " subtle

influences " to translate " qi " . I.e. the fact that judiciously chosen and

manipulated points, on say the foot and arm can " influence " things going on

at the head or trunk. Channel trajectories clearly relate to such readily

observable phenomena. But these effects appear clinically in particular,

specific ways. The text-book channel depictions -- arranging all the

(regular) points into comprehensive distinct pathways and sequences - are

then " theory " along the lines of pedagogical and mnemonic devices. The

theory is less effectively predictive than experience, transmitted and/or

personally accumulated. (This is partially inspired by Elisabeth Hsu's

fascinating book " The Transmission of " , Cambridge Univ.

Press, 1999; in particular Chapter 6 - Teaching from TCM texts.)