Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am new practitioner and I have opened my practice one month ago in

a physical therapy clinic in Queens, NY. For now I am just renting

one room for few hours a day. I also keep my full time job as a

physical therapist assistant( PTA) in another place. For the last

month and a half I put my flyers, buseness cards and broshures in the

waiting room in my clinic. I gave out more then 300 business cards to

my physical therapy patients where I work full time, our orthopedic

doctor,almost all friends and people who I know, like my barber,

pizza store owner, vitamin shop, my dentist e.t.c. I put my tear-off

flyers in supermarkets and groceries stores. My wife is a social

worker and psychotherapist, so she gave my cards to her coworkers in

one of the biggest hospitals in NYC.

Within this month I got ONE patient from my PTA place who come once a

week for massage and trigger point release but she doesn't want me to

use needles - only hands. Also I got one call from some guy who

scheduled appointment but did not showed up).

I do excellent job at my PTA place and my patients really like and

respect me. However, they are medicaid, medicare patients and do not

want to spend any money or can't afford it, even if I offer them huge

discount (like $20-30 per treatment). I am getting depressed and

frustrated. How long should I do this until I start getting patients

and do I do it right? I did not put any ads in local newspapers yet

because I heard it is not very effective and it is pretty expensive.

All advices I have heard and read advocate for direct marketing and

networking. I do that but no results.

So can you share your best strategy to jump start the practice and

continue to get new patients.

 

Thanks you,

 

Yuly Fridman, L.Ac,PTA

[Guest guest]

Yuli,

I also recently decided to open in private practice...in

Santa Fe, New Mexico. It is a hard market, seems like

every 7th person here is a DOM (Doctor of Oriental

Medicine). Some are actually open to discussing

practice-building and from them all I hear is to " market do

not advertise " . Word-of-mouth seems to really be the most

effective mode. I must say I have seen very few patients

in the last 3 months yet those I have seen have almost all

been word of mouth. Realistically, I cannot afford to

advertise anyway.

 

Another technique that opened some doors for me was to

contact different businesses and see if they were willing

to have me offer their employees treatment at a discount as

their employees, so...in one contractor's office I was able

to have 57 flyers distributed in each individual's pay

envelope. That was just a few days ago so no calls yet but

hope springs eternal. I am learning how to do private

" business " rather than be someone's employee and it is

challenging. I hope you create the practice you want. Be

well.

Peace,

Daniel Craig, DOM

[Guest guest]

Yuly Fridman wrote:

> Hi,

> I am new practitioner and I have opened my practice one month ago in

> a physical therapy clinic in Queens, NY. For now I am just renting

> one room for few hours a day. I also keep my full time job

 

Hi Yuly!

 

" 80% of TCM graduates *never* practice past their internship. 95% of

small businesses fail within 5 years. I have had my clinic open for

three years now and even though I am very inexpensive on my fees I still

have only 3 or 4 regular patients in season, none in off-season.

 

We have to get the Medicare bill passed before it gets any better than

this. This issue gets aired from time to time and people don't seem to

like to discuss it so I will cut this short.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Someone on this group recently posted a reference to a book on marketing

for the likes of us. I did get the book and I must say I've found it

very useful especially if you're like me and the very word 'marketing'

makes your toes curl. I would certainly recommend giving it a look. Its

called 'Building Your Ideal Private Practice' by Lynn Grodzki.

 

Regards

Jason

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Daniel Craig

01 July 2005 04:38

Chinese Medicine

Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

 

Yuli,

I also recently decided to open in private practice...in

Santa Fe, New Mexico. It is a hard market, seems like

every 7th person here is a DOM (Doctor of Oriental

Medicine). Some are actually open to discussing

practice-building and from them all I hear is to " market do

not advertise " . Word-of-mouth seems to really be the most

effective mode. I must say I have seen very few patients

in the last 3 months yet those I have seen have almost all

been word of mouth. Realistically, I cannot afford to

advertise anyway.

 

Another technique that opened some doors for me was to

contact different businesses and see if they were willing

to have me offer their employees treatment at a discount as

their employees, so...in one contractor's office I was able

to have 57 flyers distributed in each individual's pay

envelope. That was just a few days ago so no calls yet but

hope springs eternal. I am learning how to do private

" business " rather than be someone's employee and it is

challenging. I hope you create the practice you want. Be

well.

Peace,

Daniel Craig, DOM

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and

adjust accordingly.

 

Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

group requires prior permission from the author.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have found that advertising very specifically, rather than generally

can often be a better way to go - by which I mean rather than only

advertising acupuncture as treating a wide range of conditions, try

picking one area and advertise for that. Everybody knows, if you ask for

example, what a chiropractic does that 'they treat backs', but ask

people what an acupuncturist treats and you'll often get a bunch of ums

and arhs.

 

Here in the UK the National Health Service runs health events which

basically flag up certain conditions as an awareness raising exercise.

There is, for example, 'national allergy week', 'national quit smoking

week', 'migraine awareness week', and so on. The best advertising I did

- measured in terms of cost : response, was to send out press releases

to local TV, radio and newspapers a couple of weeks before 'national

depression week' explaining how effective acupuncture is in this area,

how it works etc, and offering free 15minute consultations throughout

the whole month.

Acupuncture is very much in favour with the media over here, and on the

back of the press release, I got interviews with 2 radio stations, local

TV came and filmed me, and several local papers ran a small piece. None

of this cost me a penny (except of course the time getting the press

release together), and the response was fantastic.

 

Jason

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Yuly

Fridman

01 July 2005 02:54

Chinese Medicine

Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

 

Hi,

I am new practitioner and I have opened my practice one month ago in

a physical therapy clinic in Queens, NY. For now I am just renting

one room for few hours a day. I also keep my full time job as a

physical therapist assistant( PTA) in another place. For the last

month and a half I put my flyers, buseness cards and broshures in the

waiting room in my clinic. I gave out more then 300 business cards to

my physical therapy patients where I work full time, our orthopedic

doctor,almost all friends and people who I know, like my barber,

pizza store owner, vitamin shop, my dentist e.t.c. I put my tear-off

flyers in supermarkets and groceries stores. My wife is a social

worker and psychotherapist, so she gave my cards to her coworkers in

one of the biggest hospitals in NYC.

Within this month I got ONE patient from my PTA place who come once a

week for massage and trigger point release but she doesn't want me to

use needles - only hands. Also I got one call from some guy who

scheduled appointment but did not showed up).

I do excellent job at my PTA place and my patients really like and

respect me. However, they are medicaid, medicare patients and do not

want to spend any money or can't afford it, even if I offer them huge

discount (like $20-30 per treatment). I am getting depressed and

frustrated. How long should I do this until I start getting patients

and do I do it right? I did not put any ads in local newspapers yet

because I heard it is not very effective and it is pretty expensive.

All advices I have heard and read advocate for direct marketing and

networking. I do that but no results.

So can you share your best strategy to jump start the practice and

continue to get new patients.

 

Thanks you,

 

Yuly Fridman, L.Ac,PTA

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and

adjust accordingly.

 

Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

group requires prior permission from the author.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Daniel,

Be careful about offerring discounts on services. You must be consistent

with what you charge patients as is the same for medicine. You should

outline your fee schedule and stick with it or...

 

On the other hand, I think that to offer a free consultation, as this is not

treatment, is acceptable to get them in the door. Best of luck to you.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

>Daniel Craig <domdanc

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Yuli,

>I also recently decided to open in private practice...in

>Santa Fe, New Mexico. It is a hard market, seems like

>every 7th person here is a DOM (Doctor of Oriental

>Medicine). Some are actually open to discussing

>practice-building and from them all I hear is to " market do

>not advertise " . Word-of-mouth seems to really be the most

>effective mode. I must say I have seen very few patients

>in the last 3 months yet those I have seen have almost all

>been word of mouth. Realistically, I cannot afford to

>advertise anyway.

>

>Another technique that opened some doors for me was to

>contact different businesses and see if they were willing

>to have me offer their employees treatment at a discount as

>their employees, so...in one contractor's office I was able

>to have 57 flyers distributed in each individual's pay

>envelope. That was just a few days ago so no calls yet but

>hope springs eternal. I am learning how to do private

> " business " rather than be someone's employee and it is

>challenging. I hope you create the practice you want. Be

>well.

>Peace,

>Daniel Craig, DOM

>

[Guest guest]

Find a better clientelle and possibly area to practice. If you do not want

to be a Medicare worker then find the clients you want to work with.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " Yuly Fridman " <yulfrid8

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

> Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:54:06 -0000

>

>Hi,

>I am new practitioner and I have opened my practice one month ago in

>a physical therapy clinic in Queens, NY. For now I am just renting

>one room for few hours a day. I also keep my full time job as a

>physical therapist assistant( PTA) in another place. For the last

>month and a half I put my flyers, buseness cards and broshures in the

>waiting room in my clinic. I gave out more then 300 business cards to

>my physical therapy patients where I work full time, our orthopedic

>doctor,almost all friends and people who I know, like my barber,

>pizza store owner, vitamin shop, my dentist e.t.c. I put my tear-off

>flyers in supermarkets and groceries stores. My wife is a social

>worker and psychotherapist, so she gave my cards to her coworkers in

>one of the biggest hospitals in NYC.

>Within this month I got ONE patient from my PTA place who come once a

>week for massage and trigger point release but she doesn't want me to

>use needles - only hands. Also I got one call from some guy who

>scheduled appointment but did not showed up).

> I do excellent job at my PTA place and my patients really like and

>respect me. However, they are medicaid, medicare patients and do not

>want to spend any money or can't afford it, even if I offer them huge

>discount (like $20-30 per treatment). I am getting depressed and

>frustrated. How long should I do this until I start getting patients

>and do I do it right? I did not put any ads in local newspapers yet

>because I heard it is not very effective and it is pretty expensive.

>All advices I have heard and read advocate for direct marketing and

>networking. I do that but no results.

>So can you share your best strategy to jump start the practice and

>continue to get new patients.

>

>Thanks you,

>

>Yuly Fridman, L.Ac,PTA

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Yuly--For the first 6 months after I opened I had hardly any

patients. In the next 6 months I suddenly got a bunch in the spring.

Then there were high and low points after that, but at this point

nearly 2 years later I am very busy. It will happen for you if you

are able to get good results. Just be patient. One patient can turn

into 3. After people have seen you around awhile they are more likely

to call. When I opened I had a sign out front with " Grand Opening

Special " ...I think that worked about as well as having a tarantula

sitting at my door greeting people...people do not trust new

healthcare practitioners who offer " great deals " for their services.

In fact, it was probably when I got rid of that sign that I got

business! Nowadays people call saying, " I noticed you've been there

for awhile and I wanted to make an appointment. Are you still taking

new patients? " . See how things change? My advice? Forget

the marketing (it doesn't seem to work)--instead focus on developing

better and better clinical skills. That way you will make every

patient count and you will be busy in no time. Networking is useful,

but from what I've seen very little marketing stategies work for

acupuncturists.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Laura

 

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> Find a better clientelle and possibly area to practice. If you do

not want

> to be a Medicare worker then find the clients you want to work with.

>

>

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

>

>

> > " Yuly Fridman " <yulfrid8@e...>

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine

> > Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

> >Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:54:06 -0000

> >

> >Hi,

> >I am new practitioner and I have opened my practice one month ago in

> >a physical therapy clinic in Queens, NY. For now I am just renting

> >one room for few hours a day. I also keep my full time job as a

> >physical therapist assistant( PTA) in another place. For the last

> >month and a half I put my flyers, buseness cards and broshures in the

> >waiting room in my clinic. I gave out more then 300 business cards to

> >my physical therapy patients where I work full time, our orthopedic

> >doctor,almost all friends and people who I know, like my barber,

> >pizza store owner, vitamin shop, my dentist e.t.c. I put my tear-off

> >flyers in supermarkets and groceries stores. My wife is a social

> >worker and psychotherapist, so she gave my cards to her coworkers in

> >one of the biggest hospitals in NYC.

> >Within this month I got ONE patient from my PTA place who come once a

> >week for massage and trigger point release but she doesn't want me to

> >use needles - only hands. Also I got one call from some guy who

> >scheduled appointment but did not showed up).

> > I do excellent job at my PTA place and my patients really like and

> >respect me. However, they are medicaid, medicare patients and do not

> >want to spend any money or can't afford it, even if I offer them huge

> >discount (like $20-30 per treatment). I am getting depressed and

> >frustrated. How long should I do this until I start getting patients

> >and do I do it right? I did not put any ads in local newspapers yet

> >because I heard it is not very effective and it is pretty expensive.

> >All advices I have heard and read advocate for direct marketing and

> >networking. I do that but no results.

> >So can you share your best strategy to jump start the practice and

> >continue to get new patients.

> >

> >Thanks you,

> >

> >Yuly Fridman, L.Ac,PTA

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think the number one factor in the success of a practice is to BE more

than an acupuncture technician sticking needles in people. This starts

between our ears. Until we can master our own lives and be a sold stand

for the health and vitality of our patients we simply won't attract many

patients. If our Qi is scattered, weak or negative our patients feel it

and are repelled by us. You simply can't over estimate the power of our

intention and the power of us being a clearing for healing. These

skills can only be gained by experience and increasing our own life

wisdom. I suggest that half of our continuing education be outside of

Chinese medicine where we can learn personal skills, business skills and

life skills. There are dozens of such seminars available. Live your

life backwards. Live into a future instead of living from a past.

 

Success is not a mystery. Lots of practitioners are doing very well

even in tough markets. Do what they do consistently and be a resource

of powerful, focused Qi and you will likely succeed too.

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

Suite D-35

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

Fax: (480) 247-4472

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Thank you for the input. The discount is the difference

between my consultation/treatment amount and the simple

treatment amount. This falls into " free consultation " I

believe...I am mucking my way through the " business " aspect

of practice. Hopefully all I do at the very least falls

under " first, do no harm. " !

Peace,

Daniel

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen <petet@a...>

wrote:

>

> " 80% of TCM graduates *never* practice past their internship.

 

i'm interested in where you got this figure. was there a study done?

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petet@a...> wrote:

> 95% of

> small businesses fail within 5 years.

 

this figure also seems suspect to me, at least for the US. a quick

search found the Small

Business Admin's FAQ site, with the following:

 

" 8. What is the survival rate for new firms?

Two-thirds of new employer firms survive at least two years, and

about half survive at

least four years. Owners of about one-third of the firms that closed

said their firm was

successful at closure. "

 

full text at

http://app1.sba.gov/faqs/faqIndexAll.cfm?areaid=24

 

From a USA Today column:

" I know of no credible study showing anything close to a 90% failure

rate. "

 

" So what is your chance of success? I think Birch's statistics are

probably as accurate as

any. His survival rates:

 

• First year: 85%

• Second: 70%

• Third: 62%

• Fourth: 55%

• Fifth: 50% ... "

 

full text at:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/smallbusiness/column

ist/abrams/2004-05-06-

success_x.htm

 

that was just the first two hits i got on Google, but the rate would

seem to be closer to

50%... still not terribly encouraging, but not such a dismal figure

as 95%.

 

 

 

rh

[Guest guest]

kampo36 wrote:

> Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

> <petet@a...> wrote:

>> " 80% of TCM graduates *never* practice past their internship.

>

> i'm interested in where you got this figure. was there a study done?

>

Hi Kampo!

 

This is a quote from the keynote speaker at the commencement exercise of

the first graduation I attended at my TCM school, The Florida Institute

of Traditional . His name escapes me at the moment.

 

This was in 1995, I was a new student, just a few weeks into my first

semester. Can't say I wasn't warned, can I? My perception is that things

are much, much worse now but I used that figure as authoritative because

of it's source. Actually, he may have said 85%, it was at least 80%.

 

A chiropractor friend of mine says her business is very slow right now,

though not as bad as mine. 911, the hurricanes, summer in Florida - all

are factors. That and the growing perception that health care should be

free, as it is in most " developed " countries.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

kampo36 wrote:

> Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

> <petet@a...> wrote:

>

>> 95% of small businesses fail within 5 years.>

>

> this figure also seems suspect to me, at least for the US. a quick

> search found the Small Business Admin's FAQ site, with the following:

>

>

Hi Kampo!

 

Interesting that you mention SBA. I have a counselor working with me

from the SBA. Everything he has suggested that I do has failed. A couple

of his suggestions really led me down the primrose path as in losing

thousands of dollars on his ideas!

 

Lately he has not been replying to my emails. I think he is embarrassed

at how badly his ideas turn out. Why don't you apply the same skepticism

to the SBA as you do to my experience? Where did they get *their* figures?

 

<quote from your link>

" 8. What is the survival rate for new firms?

 

Two-thirds of new employer firms survive at least two years, and

about half survive at least four years. Owners of about one-third of the

firms that closed said their firm was successful at closure. Major

factors in a firm’s remaining open include an ample supply of capital,

the fact that a firm is large enough to have employees, the owner’s

education level, and the owner’s reason for starting the firm in the

first place, such as freedom for family life or wanting to be one’s own

boss.

Business survival also varies by industry and demographics.

The industry with the highest 1992–1996 survival rate for firms owned by

white non-Hispanics was oil and gas extraction (82 percent survival rate

over the four-year period). African Americans were most successful in

legal services (79 percent), and Hispanic and Asian Americans in health

services (66 percent and 76 percent, respectively).

 

Sources: Business Success: Factors Leading to Surviving and

Closing Successfully by Brian Headd, Center for Economic Studies, U.S.

Bureau of the Census, Working Paper #CES-WP-01-01, January 2001;

Advocacy-funded research by Richard J. Boden (Research Summary #204) "

<end quote>

 

Oh, " Advocacy-funded research " ! What is the SBA advocating? People

starting businesses so they are *not* getting unemployment or welfare

until the business fails and they get a job and get laid off from that.

 

To put it another way, if the government can get people to educate

themselves, and employ themselves, the government *looks* successful for

years, well into the next administration, even if the people are starving.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully determine the

truth. I know of many graduates that never make it financially (50% seems

low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack of resources. They are not

able to quit their day job and do not make the transition to professional

either.

 

I have seen more evidence of this in a state where under-educated

practitioners (100 hour) and lack of insurance parity are found. I noticed

a much different professional attitude in CA during the 1980-90's, not sure

what it is like today. Our profession has a long way to go and I hope CA is

not going to lead us backwards.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " kampo36 " <kampo36

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:27:12 -0000

>

>Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

><petet@a...> wrote:

> > 95% of

> > small businesses fail within 5 years.

>

>this figure also seems suspect to me, at least for the US. a quick

>search found the Small

>Business Admin's FAQ site, with the following:

>

> " 8. What is the survival rate for new firms?

>Two-thirds of new employer firms survive at least two years, and

>about half survive at

>least four years. Owners of about one-third of the firms that closed

>said their firm was

>successful at closure. "

>

>full text at

>http://app1.sba.gov/faqs/faqIndexAll.cfm?areaid=24

>

>From a USA Today column:

> " I know of no credible study showing anything close to a 90% failure

>rate. "

>

> " So what is your chance of success? I think Birch's statistics are

>probably as accurate as

>any. His survival rates:

>

>• First year: 85%

>• Second: 70%

>• Third: 62%

>• Fourth: 55%

>• Fifth: 50% ... "

>

>full text at:

>http://www.usatoday.com/money/smallbusiness/column

>ist/abrams/2004-05-06-

>success_x.htm

>

>that was just the first two hits i got on Google, but the rate would

>seem to be closer to

>50%... still not terribly encouraging, but not such a dismal figure

>as 95%.

>

>

>

>rh

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully determine the

> truth. I know of many graduates that never make it financially (50% seems

> low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack of resources. They are not

> able to quit their day job and do not make the transition to professional

> either.

>

 

well, the small business failure rate as a whole seems to be ~50%, the figure

quoted in the

post appeared to be 95% failure of small businesses overall. the figures for

individual

sectors are going to vary.

 

the 80% of students never practicing beyond internship seems exaggerated to me,

but

admittedly this is just based on my observations as an instructor over the last

five years --

certainly more than 2 out of 10 students i've taught see patients after

graduation.

whether they go on to practicing full time is a different matter.

 

certainly the picture is not a rosy one but i'd like to know where this 80%

number comes

from. if there was a reliable study done, where can we find the data? if not,

then i agree

that a study needs to be done in order to give an accurate picture of the

profession at this

time. as an educator i'm acutely aware of students' concerns about this topic

and i would

like to be able to give them some realistic numbers to consider.

 

robert hayden

[Guest guest]

there are some numbers in this link:

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/25/13.html

 

the 20% came out of australia so far as i remember

 

holmes

 

 

kampo36 wrote:

 

> Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

> <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> > Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully

> determine the

> > truth. I know of many graduates that never make it financially (50%

> seems

> > low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack of resources. They are

> not

> > able to quit their day job and do not make the transition to

> professional

> > either.

> >

>

> well, the small business failure rate as a whole seems to be ~50%, the

> figure quoted in the

> post appeared to be 95% failure of small businesses overall. the

> figures for individual

> sectors are going to vary.

>

> the 80% of students never practicing beyond internship seems

> exaggerated to me, but

> admittedly this is just based on my observations as an instructor over

> the last five years --

> certainly more than 2 out of 10 students i've taught see patients

> after graduation.

> whether they go on to practicing full time is a different matter.

>

> certainly the picture is not a rosy one but i'd like to know where

> this 80% number comes

> from. if there was a reliable study done, where can we find the

> data? if not, then i agree

> that a study needs to be done in order to give an accurate picture of

> the profession at this

> time. as an educator i'm acutely aware of students' concerns about

> this topic and i would

> like to be able to give them some realistic numbers to consider.

>

> robert hayden

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen <petet@a...>

wrote:

>Why don't you apply the same skepticism

> to the SBA as you do to my experience? Where did they get *their* figures?

>

 

at least they provide references for their figures, where you apparently do not.

personal

experience unfortunately doesn't really serve as hard data.

[Guest guest]

I believe that was me, Jason. Yes, I have found Lynn Grodski's book to

be the best marketing guide in print that I have seen. I liked the

recent post by Benjamin on publicity marketing and contacting local

MD's. Great ideas.

 

Anne

 

jason davies wrote:

 

> Someone on this group recently posted a reference to a book on marketing

> for the likes of us. I did get the book and I must say I've found it

> very useful especially if you're like me and the very word 'marketing'

> makes your toes curl. I would certainly recommend giving it a look. Its

> called 'Building Your Ideal Private Practice' by Lynn Grodzki.

>

> Regards

> Jason

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Daniel Craig

> 01 July 2005 04:38

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>

> Yuli,

> I also recently decided to open in private practice...in

> Santa Fe, New Mexico. It is a hard market, seems like

> every 7th person here is a DOM (Doctor of Oriental

> Medicine). Some are actually open to discussing

> practice-building and from them all I hear is to " market do

> not advertise " . Word-of-mouth seems to really be the most

> effective mode. I must say I have seen very few patients

> in the last 3 months yet those I have seen have almost all

> been word of mouth. Realistically, I cannot afford to

> advertise anyway.

>

> Another technique that opened some doors for me was to

> contact different businesses and see if they were willing

> to have me offer their employees treatment at a discount as

> their employees, so...in one contractor's office I was able

> to have 57 flyers distributed in each individual's pay

> envelope. That was just a few days ago so no calls yet but

> hope springs eternal. I am learning how to do private

> " business " rather than be someone's employee and it is

> challenging. I hope you create the practice you want. Be

> well.

> Peace,

> Daniel Craig, DOM

>

>

>

>

> http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>

> and

> adjust accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

> group requires prior permission from the author.

>

> If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have read articles by this individual before that are inaccurate and

divisive. If we stop to consider what he is saying for a moment.

 

" As acupuncturists aggressively seek licensure in all states, "

He neglects to mention that active prevention of this by the DC and MD

communities in many states. Sounds like rackateering to me.

 

" we are now seeing the brick throwing, mud-slinging tactics of this new

profession to discredit those DCs " ...

First, lets not forget that this is not a new profession, historically.

Sometimes people choose this line of rationale in order to justify that they

were first. This has become an issue with some DC as they think that they

found acupuncture. Let's get real. Chiro have been hear about a century

not 50 or so centuries that OM has been in China. Bone-setting is a part of

the practice in China so who really came first?

 

" who have added acupuncture to their practice through state board regulated

graduate school. "

These acupuncture programs, some even at chiro schools, are not regulated by

any state board or accreditation agency to date. In fact, acupuncture is

not within the scope of practice for DC in half the states so why would they

even teach this or try to accredit this. This is a simple attempt to try to

connect two separate objects which otherwise have no connection.

 

" Please remember, acupuncturists: DCs who have added acupuncture to their

armamentarium do not have to retake anatomy, physiology and the multitude of

basic science courses required in the acupuncture college. "

 

So this somehow means that they do not need proper supervised clinical

training or even the necessary theoretical concepts. What he also neglected

to mention is that these unaccreditted certificate programs fail to teach

any new, non-TCM theory. In other words, they are attempting to teach TCM

in far fewer hours and without any supervised clinical internship. Seminar

attendees experiment on their patients. I sure would like to be one of

their patients, wouldn't you?

 

The same arguments would be had if others could go out and take 100

certification in manipulation. The real issue is one of patient safety and

clinical effectiveness. A professional is the one who will get the

necessary training (approx 3000 hours) or about 2000 after you remove the

western sciences. No where is this even close to the 200-300 hours he

offers nor is his school accreditted by any known agency. Sounds like

dysfunction to me. What do others think?

 

I have a great deal of respect for those who have spent time and money to

get properly educated and not simply tried to skate through on ego. The

state of CA has some dually licensed, practicing DC/L Ac and we should

acknowledge them for this tremendous effort they have made.

 

When mentioned that acupuncture did not work for so and so, I usually ask

who performed it and mention that level of training is important and that we

are the professionals. Most people tend to get it when you present the

hours of training.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

>holmes <dkaikobad

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 08:07:03 -0700

>

>there are some numbers in this link:

>http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/25/13.html

>

>the 20% came out of australia so far as i remember

>

>holmes

>

>

>kampo36 wrote:

>

> > Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

> > <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> > > Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully

> > determine the

> > > truth. I know of many graduates that never make it financially (50%

> > seems

> > > low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack of resources. They are

> > not

> > > able to quit their day job and do not make the transition to

> > professional

> > > either.

> > >

> >

> > well, the small business failure rate as a whole seems to be ~50%, the

> > figure quoted in the

> > post appeared to be 95% failure of small businesses overall. the

> > figures for individual

> > sectors are going to vary.

> >

> > the 80% of students never practicing beyond internship seems

> > exaggerated to me, but

> > admittedly this is just based on my observations as an instructor over

> > the last five years --

> > certainly more than 2 out of 10 students i've taught see patients

> > after graduation.

> > whether they go on to practicing full time is a different matter.

> >

> > certainly the picture is not a rosy one but i'd like to know where

> > this 80% number comes

> > from. if there was a reliable study done, where can we find the

> > data? if not, then i agree

> > that a study needs to be done in order to give an accurate picture of

> > the profession at this

> > time. as an educator i'm acutely aware of students' concerns about

> > this topic and i would

> > like to be able to give them some realistic numbers to consider.

> >

> > robert hayden

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Robert,

Maybe we should ask the schools to start to poll graduates and collect the

data. I think the schools might have an idea that things are not too rosy

and might baulk at the idea. It would be a good idea for our future, what

say you?

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " kampo36 " <kampo36

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Marketing advice for frustrated acupuncturist

>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:37:05 -0000

>

>Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

><naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> > Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully determine

>the

> > truth. I know of many graduates that never make it financially (50%

>seems

> > low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack of resources. They are not

> > able to quit their day job and do not make the transition to

>professional

> > either.

> >

>

>well, the small business failure rate as a whole seems to be ~50%, the

>figure quoted in the

>post appeared to be 95% failure of small businesses overall. the figures

>for individual

>sectors are going to vary.

>

>the 80% of students never practicing beyond internship seems exaggerated to

>me, but

>admittedly this is just based on my observations as an instructor over the

>last five years --

>certainly more than 2 out of 10 students i've taught see patients after

>graduation.

>whether they go on to practicing full time is a different matter.

>

>certainly the picture is not a rosy one but i'd like to know where this 80%

>number comes

>from. if there was a reliable study done, where can we find the data? if

>not, then i agree

>that a study needs to be done in order to give an accurate picture of the

>profession at this

>time. as an educator i'm acutely aware of students' concerns about this

>topic and i would

>like to be able to give them some realistic numbers to consider.

>

>robert hayden

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that it would be a good idea, i kind of wonder why some kind of figures

aren't

required for financial aid or accreditation purposes already.

 

robert

 

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> Robert,

> Maybe we should ask the schools to start to poll graduates and collect the

> data. I think the schools might have an idea that things are not too rosy

> and might baulk at the idea. It would be a good idea for our future, what

> say you?

>

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> I have read articles by this individual before that are inaccurate and

> divisive.

 

The article also was dated 1997 so the numbers, while interesting, are a little

out of date.

 

> I have a great deal of respect for those who have spent time and money to

> get properly educated and not simply tried to skate through on ego. The

> state of CA has some dually licensed, practicing DC/L Ac and we should

> acknowledge them for this tremendous effort they have made.

>

 

Yes, i know some DCs (and DOs and MDs) who are excellent acupuncturists and who

have

done advanced training (Toyohari, etc).

 

Wisconsin, where i did much of my schooling, requires DCs to pass NCCAOM to have

acupuncture in their scope, IIRC.

 

BTW, i'm going away for the weekend and won't have internet until Tuesday. So

thanks all

for the thought-provoking discussion; hopefully we can all work together to get

a good

solid picture of where we're at and where we need to go as a profession. Have a

nice

weekend, and for the Yanks, happy 4th.

 

robert hayden

[Guest guest]

mike Bowser wrote:

> Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully

> determine the truth. I know of many graduates that never make it

> financially (50% seems low) for a variety of reasons, mostly a lack

> of resources. They are not able to quit their day job and do not

> make the transition to professional either.

>

> I have seen more evidence of this in a state where under-educated

> practitioners (100 hour) and lack of insurance parity are found. I

> noticed a much different professional attitude in CA during the

> 1980-90's, not sure what it is like today. Our profession has a long

> way to go and I hope CA is not going to lead us backwards.

 

Hi Mike!

 

In the past there has been a certain amount of " dirty tricks "

competition from the dark side. I don't know what they are afraid of,

they have more patients on their books than they can correctly service.

 

More disturbing is the contingent of " acupuncturists " who have a 200

hour certification. I wonder what the schools are thinking of when the

offer this? Surely not their full-program graduates!

 

The TCM schools have a strong incentive to keep the business prospects

of acupuncture deeply hidden. If the market for graduates were known to

prospective students, the only students who would think they would be

able to afford to go through with it would be the already well-financed.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

kampo36 wrote:

> Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

> <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

>

>> Interesting topic and one that could require a study to fully

>> determine the truth. I know of many graduates that never make it

>> financially

<snip>

 

> a study needs to be done in order to give an accurate picture of the

> profession at this time. as an educator i'm acutely aware of

> students' concerns about this topic and i would like to be able to

> give them some realistic numbers to consider.

 

Hi Robert!

 

Most likely your school and all TCM schools would *not* want the study

done if it would impact the desirability of their course to prospective

students.

 

Regards,

 

Pete