Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 > Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:33:17 -0700 > Julie Chambers <info > Re: Re: Two questions > > Haven't you seen little white worms crawing in a box of couscous or rice, or > even cereal...they are the little worms that later turn into moths, the kind > of moths you sometimes see in the cupboard. I have even seen these little > worms in a box of raisins, once. I don't think they are maggots. I have seen > maggots and they are much bigger! My friend (no quotes needed!) said these > were about 1/2 " long and were visible through and through the entire package > of rice cakes. They sound like meal worms. Considered disgusting in our society, but harmless. -jude jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Jude wrote : > They sound like meal worms. Considered disgusting in our society, but > harmless. > > -jude jude Oops! i didn't properly identify myself. ;-) -Judith Saxe (jude) fifth semester student CSTCM, Denver, Colorado jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Marco, You've asked several questions and I'll try and respond as best I can. > > Marco: > > " it's a description of a diseased condition. " > is this one way of referring to the pin yin > terms Bian Bing what the Chinese characters > are I have no idea. Also what are the " comen " > combinations of the term Bing (Ji, Yin and so > forth, either put before or after). I can't really go into a comprehensive study of these terms here, but here's some basic data that might help you get a better grasp of the meanings of the Chinese terms. Bian4 means " differentiate. " Bing4, which I think is the terms you're trying to get your wits about, was originally a pictograph of a person lying on a bed. The character in use today is quite old. There is no simplified form of bing4 and the modern character is the complex or traditional one. It's composed of two parts: Ne4, which is the " radical " or " signific " that evolved from the ancient pictograph of a person lying on a bed; and bing4 (the interior part of the character) which here just gives its sound to the combined word: bing4. The etymological logic is pretty straightforward: a person doesn't feel well and so has to lie on the bed, hence illness or disease. You see the ne4 radical in many terms related to diseases of many types and many aspects of disease, pathology, etc. > > what where or is the historical development and > or emphasises of the term (+...) Bing (+...) There's a quick sketch. > > How is it related to Bian Zheng - pattern > identification, i.e. how can one improve once > knowledge and knowing Chinese medicine by > understanding the (+...) bing (+...). Basically, bing4 is a term that gets used to refer to the general condition of having a disease and in countless combinations to be the name of different diseases. Chinese patients always ask: Doctor, what's my disease (bing4£©? Or course£¬ traditional doctors are interested in bian4 zheng4, differentiating the disease according to patterns or signs. Zheng4 means pattern/sign. > > And like so many > descriptions in Chinese medicine it reflects > ideas, values, and logic that is quite > context-dependent. When you take the term > out of context, therefore, its meaning > naturally begins to distort. > > Marco: > > How does this affect the practitioner-student > needs to know more both in its original > contexed and the information then possibly > later being " contexilised " into > " present/lacalidad " context? > > what I am saying is that by the sound of it > first one needs to know the original and > original transformative contexed i.e. a > historical process in order to contexulise the > knowledge " here and know " , just do not > comprehend how? Another good question. Seems to me that once we recognize the need to develop a familiarity with the context of the origins of terms, the more we learn the more familiar we become. The threshold here is simply the initial recognition of the need to know. People generally tend to learn what they perceive that they need to know, whether its language, cultural contexts, or whatever. So I'd say that the basic answer to " how? " is simply understand the need. Everyone will experience this need in different ways and will therefore come up with different approaches to filling it. But the need itself comes with the subject. > > Ken: > > There are, indeed, clinics in Chinese hospitals > as well as free-standing clinics that offer > primarily or uniquely massage therapy. These > range from curbside chairs to barbershop to > " massage parlors " to small medical clinics to > quite elaborately outfitted hospitals. > > What is done and how it is done is different > in virtually each and every one. > > Could you just break down and summarise a bit > about the difference within each setting? Very briefly, in the Sichuan tea houses there are always masseurs and masseuses who just wander through the tea drinkers offering massage. You actually have to be a little careful of these types as they are as often as not well trained. When I apprenticed in a number of clinics here several years ago we had a steady stream of patients whose injuries had actually been caused by such practitioners. It's probably rare statistically, but when you see the results of bad treatment it leaves a lasting impression. So I approach these street massage therapists with caution. There are also small massage clinics, many of which are staffed by blind practitioners, who are famous for their techniques and sensitivity. There are also lots of clinics offering specialties, such as foot massage, head massage, etc. Many of these also provide various kinds of herbal baths and treatments. And often one finds such services in what are essentially beauty shops, i.e., places where people go to have their hair washed and cut, etc. There are specialty Chinese Medical Beauty Shops that offer skin care, facial treatments, etc. And some of the larger hospitals, such as the hospital attached to the TCM university in Chengdu, have clinics devoted to such things. The massage therapy clinics in the larger hospitals operate more or less like the clinics where other modalities are provided. The one in the university hospital here in Chengdu is on the ground floor, near the x-ray department. I am working on a complete description of life in a Chinese clinic for a new book on massage therapy I'm currently putting together. > Ken this letter of yours is incredibly > interesting if I may say so, and will get both > who can ride the dragon and a brief history of > Qi no later then dec 24. (here I am alluding to > Christmas and since Sweden is one of those > countries that actually celebrates the 24th > more then the 25th, which I think is amore > common practice in the western world, another > allusion could be Christmas in Sweden. Although > strictly speaking I am not going to be there > this dec.) However is this part of the allusion > aspect that you mention is prevalent in Chinese > medicine, albeit less elegantly done. Still > allusionary aspect would it not be very much > situational-historical dependent? I think so. And this accords with the fundamental precept of Chinese medicine: different patient, different place, different time: different treatment. Knowledge is a kind of treatment and must be understood in its situational-historical dependency both in terms of where it comes from and where it is intended to go. > > > What I mean is that probably a lot of writers > wrote things down taking there allusion and > methoprical aspects for granted as some things > would have been " common " or shared knowledge > between various strata represented by those > that held the pen. Yes. It was very much a coterie language and literature. One had to and has to still understand these " common " features in order to make sense out of a great deal of it. if this is the case I > imagine that learning Chinese language actually > means learning understanding comprehending > (trying to) Chinese particularities in a given > place and time?( and then aim to re-apply it to > " here and know " ?) Very true. > > > As for metaphors and allusion: > > > Come mother > Christmas--------------------(unfortunately to > obvious as to what event is being referred to) > A cold Swedish > day---------------------------(i.e. dec 24th) > Qi and Dragon will be seen----------------(i.e. > A brief history of Qi and Who can ride the > Dragon, see=read) > By the > Quetzal(i.e. > The national emblem of Guatemala a bird that > now is nearly extinct...) > > > okay so I am not a poet but a good laugh can be > therapeutically... Yeah. Interesting idea. A list of cross-cultural metaphors... Hmm... > > > Actually your letter explains aspects and > highlights aspects more complex then I can > relay such as " false borrowing " (as an > example). However why is this " a tendency more > pronace in Chinese writing " ? One answer is because it's " hard wired " into the literature at the level of the characters themselves. > > > Until the end of this year a " request " could > you not by any chance break down a sample > (short) text paragraph about Chinese medical > writing and do us the grand favour of > identifying the " false borrowing " , metaphorical > and allusion aspect. In fact we're doing this very thing right now and the results will be available for public consumption some time early next year. Sorry, we're paddling as fast as we can. > > > I know it is a lot to ask but it is always > worth to ask (right?), besides I was thinking > of my class (no rhyme intended) > > > Seriously thanks a lot for your responses... You're welcome. > > > > I happen to have the English translation Cheng > Tzu's Thirteen Treaties on Tai Ch'i Ch'uan will > read it again, and again... > > Either way what comes to mind is the term you > mention one presumably a professor of yours or > colleague often says: > > Invest in Lost > > Admittedly I am not sure what you mean? Well, it's not easy to understand. I think what Professor Cheng was saying when he repeated " invest in loss " over and over was a paraphrase of an idea that comes from chapter 48 of the Dao De Jing. It's the one that says: In study, every day you accumulate. In following the dao4, every day you lose. Lose and lose until you attain non-action. Non-action, yet nothing not done. > > example I need to both develop Chinese medical > Language " my " qi gong and Tai Chi Ch'uan > practice. You aren't the only one, Marco! > > These days these fields and arts ought to be > thought and transmitted by a master-teacher. > Read somewhere a Case history by Steven Clavey > that was referring to a wrong qi gong practice > leading to a disharmony (I can not remember the > case history per se) but he stated that the > professor mention it is " ludicrous " (maybe not > an exact quote) to practice qi gong on your > own. The taiji classics state clearly that: " to enter the door and be shown the way, you must be orally taught. " In the preface to a book written by two > authors one western psychiatrics whom the name > I forgot (sorry) and the other author Bob Flaws > about Chinese medical psychiatric (I think the > title is such), they mention that a fifth > mental disorder (or cause there of) can be > incorrect qi gong practice. There are significant numbers of patients in Chinese hospitals, including mental hospitals, who got there through improper qi4 gong1 practice. This phenomena predates the current Falungong controversy. I think the precautions are valid and have seen many cases of people who have injured themselves through improper practice of various kinds. > > However these things must have started from > somewhere namely the impulse of the persons > wanting to " do something " . > What I mean is that all the forms and stands > have been developed some of those that > developed surely wouldn't not have any > predecessors. > > Thus how can I learn in my own time? Professor Cheng Man Ch'ing was pretty clear that if you want to be well guided in the practice of tai4 ji2 quan2 you should read the classics. If what you practice conforms with the classics then you are on the right road. From my own experience I'd say that finding a teacher is both a necessity and therefore a step in the practice itself. I remember seeing a book by Yan Xin, the famous qi4 gong1 teacher many years ago. I don't know if it was ever published in English. But it was called 80 Characters on Qi4 Gong1. One of the characters was the word, teacher. And one of the points Yan made in this essay was that one should learn from everybody. > > Now there are some people that claim of doing > Tai Chi Chuan and or Qi Gong here in Guatemala. > > They are in my opinion abusing and > mis-representing these arts (that I admittedly > do not understand completely), simply because > they have no real know how nor knowledge of the > contexed these arts-sciences developed and as > to why and so forth. They are directing there > work to a very concentrated sector of the > population and quite frankly they are racists > in there words and deeds. I do not know how > much Qi Gong is suppose to develop an > " penetrated illuminated Shen1 (body-person) " > but there attitude in my opinion do not > coincide or rather is not conducive to > develop-cultivate true qi. The situation you describe is not unique to Guatemala. As I said, finding a teacher is part of the process. > Hence any comments as to practice and (try) to > develop these practices safely and efficiently? I have studied various forms of martial arts and qi4 gong1 practices over the years. During the research for A Brief History of Qi, my wife and I read through many different texts on the subject. My practice consists of what Prof. Cheng described as the " special characteristic " of tai4 ji2 quan2: mind and qi4 in dan1 tian2. It's simple, if not easy; and it's safe. > > > The concept of time is different in many > aspects to Guatemalan functioning, many people > here are of the opinion that somehow the > ancestors are " annoyed " when illness and or > life is " failer-fracaso " , which seams to imply > both events and aspects to life or life at > large which seams to be due to the most > offensive " deed " to " ancestors " (or by > ancestors?) This is pretty similar to attitudes that underlay a great deal of early Chinese medical thinking. See Unschuld's Medicine in China: A History of Ideas for a very clear and comprehensive presentation of this. > > Many Aj'qii'ab and or other Maya healers > " claim " to be suffering from a particular > disease before they accept the vocation of > healing(which is also usually determine by once > nahual), others have an strong need to burn > candles on particular days related to once > Nahual (what nahual can be translated as in > English not sure yet) but it is related both to > the Calendar Round, which in turns consists of > many calendars that at some stage-point-phase > interact (as oppose to over act). I think that the aspect of time sense is largely unexplored in terms of its influence on Chinese medical thought and action. I know next to nothing about Mayan calendrical science, other than that it was highly developed. > I've only seen a couple of books in China on various aspects of it, and other than a few passing comments by people like Needham, I know of virtually nothing in English that explores the significance of traditional Chinese attitudes and experiences of time and/or relate such to Chinese medical thought. I'd be interested to know if anyone on the list has any insights. Thanks for the thought provoking conversation, Marco. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Julie, > > Dear Ken, > > Thank you for your responses on mutual > counteraction and worms. Sure. > > Since there were no diagnostic signs of > parasite infestation so soon, I did > decide to give her an antiparasitic and > slightly purging formula for just a > day...as a precaution. Since I also did not > know what worm it was, I gave > her several herbs that treat different kinds of > worms...and some Da Huang > and Aloe. And? What happened? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Fernando, > Message: 15 > Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:24:41 -0000 > " fbernall " > Re: Digest Number 1088/Mutual > Counteraction > > Dear Ken, > > Thanks for this information. You're very welcome. Your response has > been the most inspiring > to look into the Chinese language. I've been thinking about this lately, as it seems like I'm arguing the point constantly in one forum or another. All it takes to learn a language is the need to know it. We only have language because it's such an effective tool to help us do so many things. If people experience the need, that is probably the best inspiration. And if people don't experience the need, then probably no inspiration will serve to motivate anyone to learn anything as complex as a language. I have seen > this " mutual fear " or > " awe " among high level tai ji players a time or > two. Thanks again. Me, too. Once you get the idea of what " mutual fear " feels like, the notion applied to medicinals is quite clear. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 In a message dated 11/18/03 11:14:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: > Marjorams > > Can someone please tell me about the differences between the marjorams? > > I'm not sure which is the variety that we cook with. Herbs should > have the scientific names on them as well! > > Thanks. > > JenB > Majorana hortensis is sweet marjoram MJH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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