Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Here's my take on the Dog/Cat EO thing. I have been a registered vet tech for over ten years. Have worked in many vet hospitals, under some really cool Docs. I Have even been on the Animal Planet Emergency Vets show - for whatever that's worth. I have a very good working knowledge of the anatomy and physiology of animals. It's _*/quite/*_ different from that of humans. Though I am natural minded in the treatment of myself with herbs and EOs, I seriously question their application to animals. Why? Well, as one who knows how different they are, I cannot make the leap of what's good for humans is equally good for pets. Animals may have the same organs as we do, but they have different levels (and lack of) of enzymes and chemicals running their show. Further, there isn't the research to back up ANY claims that EOs work for dogs (or cats) - sure, tea tree might help that hot spot, but how do you know (without doing a liver panel at the same time) that it is not adversly affecting the liver - which is the major organ that biotransforms these things? I have seen the application of several " natural " modailties filter into the veterinary world and honestly, most fail. The raw diets have killed and sickend more animals that I can count. Vegetarian diets for cats are deadly. Homeopathy - useless (for animals.) I have seen so called " animal communicators " con owners into a cesspool of wrongful doubt that has lead to the early demise of many, many poor creatures that could have been saved. The/ _only/_ alternative modality I have seen work with good effect is accupunture. This means maybe we are on to something here, but just not quite yet. Most of the complaints of people who want to try natural modalites on pets is that Vets are controlled by pet food and drug companies - let me just say right now that this ain't so. I hope someone, somewhere gave me credit for being able to think for myself. I know my Docs did (think for themselves, that is.) Personally, I find pet nutrition fascinating, and commited to studying animal nutrition in depth. And while I have been confronted by several Iams, Hills, and Purina reps - I was able to keep a clear head. BTW, I not a big fan of their average diet, but Purina was the first company to come up with a high protien diet for diabetic cats that can get them OFF insulin and greatly improve their lifespan, and quality of life. Yay! For the record, I feed my cats Evolve, organic diet. I'm also not saying all vets are right all the time. I was just in a clinic the other day with my crippled rooster (yes, you heard me right) and had a long talk with the vet about aromatherapy for cats. She told me about one of the surgeons there who went to a conference and came home all excited about doing raindrop on animals - egads! They are at vet conferences too! This *surgeon* (who will no longer be treating ANY of my pets) was gulled by the YL crowd - pretty scary, ain't it? Thanks to Kathleen, Butch and many others' tireless campaign against these idiots, I was able to come back the next day with YL files.... To be fair on the other side, one of my best friends is a vet, and I worked with him for many years. The man is the most consciencious, caring, thorough, loving person I have ever met. I've seen him go to extraordinary lengths to save animals, give up time with his wife and new child, and be in debt up to his eyebrows (student loans.) My point is - get to know your vet well, you have the same right to question their treamtent philosphy as you do your own GP. But I digress.... Kristen Lee Bell might have some good ideas, but what I question is that she has (to my knowledge - someone please correct me if I am wrong) neither training as a veterinarian, or a veterinary technician. So how can someone who does not have knowledge of advanced anatomy and physiology of cats/dogs/horses have any idea what works on them? And how it works on them? Does she do a blood chemistry while administring EOs to see how the different body systems are affected by them? I'd really like to see that . This leads me to believe that she practices (medicine) on purely anecdotal evidence, and that's not something I trust when it comes to my beloved pets. I don't question her intentions, goodness, integrity, or expertise as an aromatherapist. What I question is hundreds of people putting trust in someone who doesn't have a scientific backround regarding animal health, but can publish an aromatherapy novel... er, I mean... book. Suzanne Catty worries me also - given that she supports the use of bunk hydrosols to treat people and pets, does it follow that treatments with said hydrosols are bunk too? I am thankful that for people like Martin and others who have made safety of EOs for humans a mission. The research has been the best indicator that what we are doing works - /for us/. However, there just isn't enough research on animals to know it works for them - hell, we are still trying to fight off parvo, feline leukemia, FIV and convince people that a rabies vaccine (let alone other vaccs) is a GOOD thing. I hope I can convince you all that I am not against nautral remedies. If you choose to not vax your kids - fine. Or be vegan - fine. But know that applying the same standards to animals just doesn't work. It's the old apple/orange conundrum. We have wiped out most of the human pathogens we vax kids for anyway (er, in the US - I'd think twice about an unvaxed child in a third world country) - but it's not the case with animals. Parvo is rampant, so is panleukepenia, FELV, FIV, and Lepto is a huge problem where I live. Rabies is endemic - and I can think of a thousand other ways I'd rather die than rabies. It's a/* real*/ problem that affects not only pets, but human health as well. But back to EOs. If you choose to treat your pet this way, I can't stop you, just know that they do not have the same physiology as we do, and there isn't a shread of hard, scientific evidence that prove they are safe - and there is not likely to be in the near future. Be wary of people who do not have creditials to back up their claims, and for God(dess) sake... be wary of what you read! Good old Dr. Pitcairn has killed plenty of animals too. Respectfully, JenB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 THANK YOU JenB!!!! Finaly someone with a clear mind and a large bag of working knowledge. Now you have put my mind to rest and I can promise you that I won't use ANY EO in Fionas pawbalm. You have been on Emergency Vets - that's way to cool :-D I just love the show and think the vet's are soo caring, compassionate and darned right funny at times. Fragrant Blessings, Ylva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 , nsorcl <nsorcl@a...> wrote: > Here's my take on the Dog/Cat EO thing. > > I have been a registered vet tech for over ten years. Have worked in > many vet hospitals, under some really cool Docs. I Have even been on > the Animal Planet Emergency Vets show - for whatever that's worth. I > have a very good working knowledge of the anatomy and physiology of > animals. It's _*/quite/*_ different from that of humans. Though I am > natural minded in the treatment of myself with herbs and EOs, I > seriously question their application to animals. *** As do I. - sure, tea tree might > help that hot spot, but how do you know (without doing a liver panel at > the same time) that it is not adversly affecting the liver - which is > the major organ that biotransforms these things? *****having bred for 7 years and working with a vet tech and breeder of 30 years, I , as I stated used the tea tree, very diluted to heal a hot spot I felt need to be healed BEFORE the pups were born, my vet gave me coritzone cream, while this may be effective - my gal did not lick the tea tree with vit E and I did take the skin absorbtion into consideration and take my dogs health very seriously I made a judgement call after consulting and research, I am aware and have seen liver shunts, not of my breeding but liver damage due to toxins in my breed will most likely be immediately seen, I bought a pup from a top international breeder and after 2 hours the poor baby seized, it was not toxic but genetic and liver shunts were the last thing suspected, although not unheard of most good and educated breeders know what diseases their breeds are most prone to, that baby died in my arms and it will be forever the " secret " that this offspring of a American, Canadian and Japanese Champion has a genetic defect in its line- I research my dogs lineage, track their offspring and if every any genetic problems were to be found I would never breed that dog, all my dogs are completely tested before I breed, and I only breed maybe every 2 years if that. > I have seen the application of several " natural " modailties filter into > the veterinary world and honestly, most fail. The raw diets have killed > and sickend more animals that I can count. **** I completely agree, I have not used the BARF diet as my dogs cannot handle any table food at all, but I do know many breeders who swear by it, and a very well respected Rotweiller breeder whose dogs thrive on it. > Most of the complaints of people who want to try natural modalites on > pets is that Vets are controlled by pet food and drug companies - let me > just say right now that this ain't so. I hope someone, somewhere gave > me credit for being able to think for myself. I know my Docs did (think > for themselves, that is.) Personally, I find pet nutrition > fascinating, and commited to studying animal nutrition in depth. And > while I have been confronted by several Iams, Hills, and Purina reps - I > was able to keep a clear head. BTW, I not a big fan of their average > diet, but Purina was the first company to come up with a high protien > diet for diabetic cats that can get them OFF insulin and greatly improve > their lifespan, and quality of life. Yay! ****I myself use Purina- I agree I do not like the basic diet but my dogs thrive on the ONE lamb and rice diet. I think purina is making great stives towards animal health, Iams which is a choice of many breeders and recommended by alot of vets - mine included is under investigation for major, sickening cruelty to animals in testing there product, Eukenuba is made by the Iams company- but this is not being heard as they are a major sponsor of dog shows! > I'm also not saying all vets are right all the time. I was just in a > clinic the other day with my crippled rooster (yes, you heard me right) > and had a long talk with the vet about aromatherapy for cats. She told > me about one of the surgeons there who went to a conference and came > home all excited about doing raindrop on animals - egads! ****that speaks volumes! I cannot speak for the authors of EO's on animals, I do not advocate it nor do I disregard it, as a rule no I do not use EO's on my animals, but I do use flower esscenses with much success. I also as I wrote do lightly diffuse lavender in the whelping area, but I also diffuse it in the rest of my house occassionally, it is a scent my dogs seem to enjoy and go to my lavender garden and sniff it. However, there just > isn't enough research on animals to know it works for them - hell, we > are still trying to fight off parvo, feline leukemia, FIV and convince > people that a rabies vaccine (let alone other vaccs) is a GOOD thing. ***** I completely agree, thankfully I have never experienced Parvo, but have know breeders who have lost entire litters to this deadly disease, while I use tea tree to disinfect the dogs outside area, VERY dilluted - when I have a litter bleach is the only thing that I know of that will prevent and kill parvo, as much as I would like to find a alternative I am not willing to take a chance on a maybe against a deadly virus that survives even the harshes of winters. I have been turned away from my vet to get my pups vaccinated because they closed down due to a parvo outbreak. Even that cute little bunny that hops through your back yard can leave behind coccidia so I do personally believe in vaccinations for prevention. > > I hope I can convince you all that I am not against nautral remedies. *****I think you have shown that you are a kind and caring animal lover, given the field you work in I can only imagine the terrible and preventable things you have witnessed. Just my opinion, natural -I love it and I know many people who believe that animals survived long before human medicine - but I don't think that they take into consideration that we have domesticated them and I believe natural should be complementary to conventional medicine in animals and humans. Gea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Thank you for your input Jen You've given a lot of food for thought here! One quick note I must agree to disagree on - I had a dog who was GREATLY helped by homeopathy. This was actually back when I working at a respected Animal Hospital in NYC, and she had good, caring conventional care - she had SEVERE skin problems her whole life long, that flared up horribly every time after her round of shots. Even her vet recommended she stop getting all her shots except for the rabies cause it was so bad. She was basically living on Prednisone :(talk about bad for a dog's liver) She even had to get two ear surgeries to re-open the holes in each ear cause she scratched them so severely on a regular basis that over time when the skin healed the skin thickened and the holes closed (the poor pupster). Let me also note that I never fed her crappy foods that contained by-products and the common ingredients that are known allergens . She also went for a round of allergy tests BTW ... We did it all to help her. It seemed nothing would ever work ... Eventually I came into contact with a holistic vet who practiced homeopathy and I was willing to try that - and the proper remedies, properly administered really helped her lifelong skin problems greatly improve when nothing else ever did (and we're talking a dog who was not a youngster at that point). I've also seen the flower essences do good things for dogs. These helped her until her time of passing. That's it - most everything else you said I agree with And don't worry - you don't come across as someone who is against natural remedies Hope to see you on Animal Planet! Let us know when they re-run the episode you were on. That's neat! *Smile* Chris (list mom) http://www.alittleolfactory.com nsorcl [nsorcl] Friday, November 07, 2003 9:52 PM EOs and pets - long Here's my take on the Dog/Cat EO thing. I have been a registered vet tech for over ten years. Have worked in many vet hospitals, under some really cool Docs. I Have even been on the Animal Planet Emergency Vets show - for whatever that's worth. I have a very good working knowledge of the anatomy and physiology of animals. It's _*/quite/*_ different from that of humans. Though I am natural minded in the treatment of myself with herbs and EOs, I seriously question their application to animals. Why? Well, as one who knows how different they are, I cannot make the leap of what's good for humans is equally good for pets. Animals may have the same organs as we do, but they have different levels (and lack of) of enzymes and chemicals running their show. Further, there isn't the research to back up ANY claims that EOs work for dogs (or cats) - sure, tea tree might help that hot spot, but how do you know (without doing a liver panel at the same time) that it is not adversly affecting the liver - which is the major organ that biotransforms these things? I have seen the application of several " natural " modailties filter into the veterinary world and honestly, most fail. The raw diets have killed and sickend more animals that I can count. Vegetarian diets for cats are deadly. Homeopathy - useless (for animals.) I have seen so called " animal communicators " con owners into a cesspool of wrongful doubt that has lead to the early demise of many, many poor creatures that could have been saved. The/ _only/_ alternative modality I have seen work with good effect is accupunture. This means maybe we are on to something here, but just not quite yet. Most of the complaints of people who want to try natural modalites on pets is that Vets are controlled by pet food and drug companies - let me just say right now that this ain't so. I hope someone, somewhere gave me credit for being able to think for myself. I know my Docs did (think for themselves, that is.) Personally, I find pet nutrition fascinating, and commited to studying animal nutrition in depth. And while I have been confronted by several Iams, Hills, and Purina reps - I was able to keep a clear head. BTW, I not a big fan of their average diet, but Purina was the first company to come up with a high protien diet for diabetic cats that can get them OFF insulin and greatly improve their lifespan, and quality of life. Yay! For the record, I feed my cats Evolve, organic diet. I'm also not saying all vets are right all the time. I was just in a clinic the other day with my crippled rooster (yes, you heard me right) and had a long talk with the vet about aromatherapy for cats. She told me about one of the surgeons there who went to a conference and came home all excited about doing raindrop on animals - egads! They are at vet conferences too! This *surgeon* (who will no longer be treating ANY of my pets) was gulled by the YL crowd - pretty scary, ain't it? Thanks to Kathleen, Butch and many others' tireless campaign against these idiots, I was able to come back the next day with YL files.... To be fair on the other side, one of my best friends is a vet, and I worked with him for many years. The man is the most consciencious, caring, thorough, loving person I have ever met. I've seen him go to extraordinary lengths to save animals, give up time with his wife and new child, and be in debt up to his eyebrows (student loans.) My point is - get to know your vet well, you have the same right to question their treamtent philosphy as you do your own GP. But I digress.... Kristen Lee Bell might have some good ideas, but what I question is that she has (to my knowledge - someone please correct me if I am wrong) neither training as a veterinarian, or a veterinary technician. So how can someone who does not have knowledge of advanced anatomy and physiology of cats/dogs/horses have any idea what works on them? And how it works on them? Does she do a blood chemistry while administring EOs to see how the different body systems are affected by them? I'd really like to see that . This leads me to believe that she practices (medicine) on purely anecdotal evidence, and that's not something I trust when it comes to my beloved pets. I don't question her intentions, goodness, integrity, or expertise as an aromatherapist. What I question is hundreds of people putting trust in someone who doesn't have a scientific backround regarding animal health, but can publish an aromatherapy novel... er, I mean... book. Suzanne Catty worries me also - given that she supports the use of bunk hydrosols to treat people and pets, does it follow that treatments with said hydrosols are bunk too? I am thankful that for people like Martin and others who have made safety of EOs for humans a mission. The research has been the best indicator that what we are doing works - /for us/. However, there just isn't enough research on animals to know it works for them - hell, we are still trying to fight off parvo, feline leukemia, FIV and convince people that a rabies vaccine (let alone other vaccs) is a GOOD thing. I hope I can convince you all that I am not against nautral remedies. If you choose to not vax your kids - fine. Or be vegan - fine. But know that applying the same standards to animals just doesn't work. It's the old apple/orange conundrum. We have wiped out most of the human pathogens we vax kids for anyway (er, in the US - I'd think twice about an unvaxed child in a third world country) - but it's not the case with animals. Parvo is rampant, so is panleukepenia, FELV, FIV, and Lepto is a huge problem where I live. Rabies is endemic - and I can think of a thousand other ways I'd rather die than rabies. It's a/* real*/ problem that affects not only pets, but human health as well. But back to EOs. If you choose to treat your pet this way, I can't stop you, just know that they do not have the same physiology as we do, and there isn't a shread of hard, scientific evidence that prove they are safe - and there is not likely to be in the near future. Be wary of people who do not have creditials to back up their claims, and for God(dess) sake... be wary of what you read! Good old Dr. Pitcairn has killed plenty of animals too. Respectfully, JenB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 > One quick note I must agree to disagree on - I had a dog who was GREATLY > helped by homeopathy. This was actually back when I working at a > respected Animal Hospital in NYC, and she had good, caring conventional > care - she had SEVERE skin problems her whole life long, that flared up > horribly every time after her round of shots. Even her vet recommended > she stop getting all her shots except for the rabies cause it was so > bad. She was basically living on Prednisone :(talk about bad for a dog's > liver) She even had to get two ear surgeries to re-open the holes in > each ear cause she scratched them so severely on a regular basis that > over time when the skin healed the skin thickened and the holes closed > (the poor pupster). Let me also note that I never fed her crappy foods > that contained by-products and the common ingredients that are known > allergens . She also went for a round of allergy tests BTW ... We did it > all to help her. It seemed nothing would ever work ... > > Eventually I came into contact with a holistic vet who practiced > homeopathy and I was willing to try that - and the proper remedies, > properly administered really helped her lifelong skin problems greatly > improve when nothing else ever did (and we're talking a dog who was not > a youngster at that point). I've also seen the flower essences do good > things for dogs. These helped her until her time of passing. You know, I should have qualified that statement more. I have seen homeopathy work well in horses - just not cats and dogs. That's not to say it doesn't, just haven't seen it with me own eyes, and that sadly, there just isn't enough research. > That's it - most everything else you said I agree with And don't > worry - you don't come across as someone who is against natural remedies > > > Hope to see you on Animal Planet! Let us know when they re-run the > episode you were on. That's neat! I think the early episodes with me there are not showing any more (I don't have cable) but at that time I a long red ponytail, glasses, and wore green scrubs. JenB > > *Smile* > Chris (list mom) > > http://www.alittleolfactory.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 JenB - you made some excellent points, I would just like to clarify a coupla things about my use of emu with tea tree and lavender eo's in my dog's ears. Our vets had both ruled out yeast (and mites) as the source of the problem several times, and we all kind of reached an unofficial agreement that it is probably dirt/sweat/ear oils. We have extremely high heat (hottest October on record in Arizona) and dry conditions (we've had 1.3 " of rain here since January 1). Mix that with high winds laden with clouds of flying dirt, her ears just get funky, even though she's inside a great deal of the time - because of all her allergies. I was aware of the liver concerns in using eo's on dogs, but since she's been on prednisone, rimadyl and temaril-p for almost all of her life, she has pretty frequent liver function tests. Which, thankfully and amazingly, have all come back fine. Shoulda specified more of that info in my original post, I would feel absolutely horrible if someone used my " mild " eo blend on a beloved pet and had any adverse reactions - and I'm glad that you took the time to point out all of those concerns. Accupuncture was going to be our next attempt at helping her joint pain - but thankfully the gelatin/glucosamine/MSM powder has helped us avoid that. The nearest place that does accupuncture on animals to us is over two hours away in Sedona. We would've done it, but am beyond happy that we haven't needed to. The food problem for her is intense, she can't eat any mass-produced dog food because of all the garbage that's in it. For a couple of years, I cooked all her food - boiled hamburger (elk or deer when I could get it), brown rice, pinto beans, along with a nutritional powder I made using bone meal, sea kelp, and a plethora of other ingredients. She can't even tolerate rice or beans - so we are now down to feeding her IVD canned food, (mainly rabbit with potato) purchased from our vet. She still itches, but nothing like in her earlier years. Even my homemade milkbones made her itch like crazy. Anyway, thanks again for the points you made, your expertise is appreciated and information well-taken. Jonee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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