Original Subject: For Those Familiar With Young Living Oils ** New Subject: A Little Presumptous, I Would Say....

[Guest guest]

Dear Butch,

 

I am currently learning about aromatherapy. I have read several books and

decided to explore the subject on-line. I have come across Young Living

numerous times and was reading about them. I just want to thank you for

providing the links so I can do a more in-depth check.

 

Even a " newby " like me could see problems with the Raindrop Technique, but

some of the first-hand accounts of them were horrifying. You not only saved

me a bunch of money, but it sounds like a lot of unnecessary pain as well.

 

Again, thank you so much.

 

Dissy

-

" Butch Owen " <butchbsi

 

 

 

> Hi y'all,

>

> I'm not sure if I'm talking with Bob or Jackie as there is no signature

> below.

>

> > This email is addressed to Butch who answered the email I posted,

> > offering good quality oils, as well as a business opportunity.

>

> That's me.

[Guest guest]

Hi y'all,

 

I'm not sure if I'm talking with Bob or Jackie as there is no signature

below.

 

> This email is addressed to Butch who answered the email I posted,

> offering good quality oils, as well as a business opportunity.

 

That's me.

 

> I don't know just who you are, Butch, being new to the list.

 

I'm the feller who dislikes MLMs .. particularly Young Living or those

that function similar to Young Living. And I'm a feller who has been

around the block a few times and can smell scams easily .. your offer

has a very unpleasant odor.

 

Mayhaps you should walk slowly and observe a bit when you go on a new

list .. get a feeling for the level of sophistication and knowledge.

Not different than walking into a new classroom when we were yonkers.

But that might not work if your mission is to join as many lists as

quickly as you can .. spam them and then hightail it out of Dodge afore

they tar and feather you.

 

Unless you come up with better answers than you have provided in this

post I would say .. at least from my perspective, that you've stayed a

bit too long .. the jig is up. Howsomever .. if you are truly wanting

to learn about AT, EO, natural healing, soaps, cosmetics, herbals and

other such nice things .. then stay and welcome you are fer'shur.

 

> However, I think you expended a lot of NEGATIVE energy addressing

> my email as though I had reference to YLEO.

 

That I did .. and it felt good. For that I thank you. :-P

 

> You didn't read it carefully enough, Butch.

 

I began with the original subject .. " For Those Familiar With Young

Living Oils. " Then followed onward with the marketing hype you threw

out to what you assumed was a gullible audience.

 

> I did NOT have reference to YLEO.

 

Young Living is .. YLEO. That was the subject.

 

> You wouldn't have known it by the looks of your " in depth " reply,

> though Butch.

 

IF it walks like a duck, etc. And I like " in depth " replies .. far

better they are than throwing bread upon the water to see what rises

when your net is fulla holes. See .. in depth replies are not possible

unless one has a bit of in depth knowledge about a subject.

 

> I have to say one thing about a couple that I've had communication

> with on this list. There is a lot of ANGER on this list.

 

Why do you hate to say it? Tell it like it is .. for a change. Find a

list or a marriage where there is no anger and you have a boring list or

marriage .. a list or marriage with no passion. There is anger in the

world .. the basic emotions we deal with daily are love, fear and anger.

Any of these three can often generate the 4th most common emotion ..

hate. Whether folks like to admit they are human or not .. this is a

matter of fact. Particularly on any natural healing list you will find

folks who bust their butts to practice ethics and you find a lot of

passion about truth and a lot of disgust for shysters and con-artists ..

and disgust for such companies. Though modern society has been taught

to pretend that hate doesn't exist amongst civilized people, I expect

that disgust falls somewhere between anger and hate.

 

> Many of you, no doubt, deal with oils on an emotional level. However,

> your own displays of ANGER are very interesting.

 

Are you living in Never-Never Land? Do you think that folks who deal in

or use essential oils are walking around singing Ava Marie all the time?

If that were the case, we'd keep the already overburdened committees in

Rome busy considering a lot of aromatherapists for Sainthood. ;-p

 

Will you explain your level of knowledge about essential oils? Or are

you just pitching business opportunities without knowing the subject?

My experience tells me that the latter is where you're at.

 

You approach any legitimate aromatherapy list with the wording in your

particular post and I promise you will get the opportunity to again be

very interested.

 

> It doesn't appear that your use of oils is assisting you on the

> emotional level.

 

Sure they do .. they heighten the emotions I described above. ;-p

But I don't particularly use EO for emotional reasons .. at least that

is not the primary reason I use them. I'm pretty well in touch with my

emotional self .. experience from a lot of environmental situations that

would make for a good book have taught me to live with my emotional self

in a manner that pleases me .. I'm a fantastic friend and an extremely

formidable foe .. as the situation calls for .. and I have never ever

experienced what some folks call depression.

 

> On the other hand, maybe you get angry when you think of YLEO and

> the poor quality of their oils.

 

Not so much the quality of their oils .. I expect they have some that

are fine. Its their lack of ethics, use of religion to hood-wink the

weak into following their greedy schemes, and their unsafe teachings.

You can read it all in the first URL I sent to the list .. the one at

http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk/ylfiles.html

 

> I don't blame you. I don't used YLEO either.

 

IF you are a competitive Multi-Level Marketing Scheme I would expect you

would not use YLEO .. but your company uses marketing techniques that

are similar to YL and obviously drawn from YL techniques and difficult

to distinguish from YL techniques .. particularly when your subject line

relates to Young Living Oils you are attempting to show that your MLM

scheme is better than their MLM scheme .. but MLM unto itself is enough

to turn me off. See URL http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html .. What's

Wrong With MLM ??

 

> But, next time you respond in such a negative manner, Butch, or

> others on the list....you might want to get the facts, first.

 

I think I have all the facts I need. You are a representative of an MLM

that is either affiliated with or in competition with YL. You use very

similiar come-ons to draw folks into your clutches .. and you make wild

claims about your products being unique and produced by little bitty

farms whose owners are well-known, etc., .. then you launch into lots of

marketing mumbo-jumbo and smoke and mirror hype which the folks who are

familiar with production of aromatic plants and essential oils can see

through like glass. I'm but one of those persons on the Oils & Herbs

list .. perhaps I'm one of the most vocal but certainly not the only

knowledgeable one or the only one that smells what I smell now.

 

Maybe it comes from my background of 30 years military service. While

in combat I did my duty .. in peacetime I reverted to the peactime role

of a United States Army Military Police Officer .. in both roles I saw

my mission as being protecting those who needed protection and punishing

those who I thought needed punishing. I still feel a need to do what I

can to assist innocents from becoming victims. Those who are drawn into

MLM schemes almost always become victims. The major difference between

MLMs and the Nigerian connection is MLMs are not so blatent when they

rip your hard-earned cash. The techniques to suck victims in are quite

similar in both the scams.

 

The fact that you claim to not use YL oils means nothing to me .. I'd

still warn people away from your MLM scheme .. and I still challenge you

or your upline to answer the questions I asked. I still believe and am

willing to put money where my mouth is that the claims you made are

blatently false! Those claims are:

 

> Certified organic by 12 international organic associations.

 

I ask you to name them. And if you present a list of 12 unknowns it

won't be acceptable. When I see someone offering Certified Organic

Peppermint .. certified by the Independent Mint Grower's Association or

some other fictitious organization, I know that the seller of that oil

is either a con-artist or they are dumber'n dirt. I bet you can't even

guess why I choose Peppermint as an example for that statement.

 

Under US Tax Laws .. me and my dawg can form a non-profit agency to do

dang near anything we want .. and keep up to 55% of the income to cover

our overhead expenses .. my beer and my dawg's T-bones. Some of the

independent certifying agencies .. especially in countries who have no

real commercial laws .. are worse than the one Balki and I could form.

Oh yea .. here's my business partner http://www.Bsi-Hq.com/team.html

he's last one on the page .. doing what he does best .. contemplating.

 

> and quality controlled by 3 independent quality control agencies

 

I ask you to name those " agencies. " If you mean to say you use three

different analysts from time to time that is believeable .. I use a half

dozen .. but the impression you are attempting to give is that quality

control agencies for essential oils exist .. that is just not true.

 

> our company is the worldleader in therapeutic-grade essential oils.

 

This is simply a marketing lie .. no way to sugar-coat that. I think

your company doesn't have their own website .. at least you didn't give

us a URL .. but I would be interested in seeing one if you have it.

 

As for being THE worldleader .. this claim alone is enough to cause

those who are truly knowledgeable of EO and AT to run for the hills.

 

As for therapeutic-grade .. though there are those who foolishy risk

such claims .. no such grade exists nor is it recognized by anyone other

than those making the claims .. but if you want to participate in a

discussion on therapeutic properties and values of essential oils I'll

banter with you or top management in your company. I'll not teach them

but I'll participate. If they need education I'll put on my consultant

cap. I've never taken a penny for writing, lecturing or discussing EO,

but I do demand transportation, hotel, food and bar bill expenses. ;-p

 

> We offer the world's largest selection of certified organic and

> biodynamic essential oils.

 

First .. only a small percentage of the oils in existence are certified

organic .. so that alone would put you in a tiny corner. Secondly, I'd

also be interested in discussing biodynamic essential oil production

with you or the top management in your MLM.

 

> Oils are produced using " full-spectrum " plant-specific distillation.

 

I ask you to explain that one too. Sounds like you are saying .. with

fancy words intended to portray that your oils are produced differently

than other folks produce them .. we only distill one plant species at a

time in the still .. we don't mix different species .. don't co-distill.

But who does? Its not done except for some folks in India who purposely

prepare what is known as " attar. "

 

If you or your management wanna discuss distillation procedures, I'll be

happy to do so .. but again, I won't teach you. I'm happy to share my

knowledge with folks who have inquiring minds .. like the majority of

the list members here .. but MLM managers and their following rarely can

be accused of having inquiring minds.

 

> Every batch is monitored, stored and tested using gas chromatography

 

Means you claim to test the oils .. and this has nothing to do with how

they are stored. Testing is a norm in many companies who are not world

leaders .. I test ALL of my oils and I am willing to provide the buyer

with a copy of the Lot Number controlled test. Are you?

 

> enantiomer separation testing to guarantee the purity and quality of

> the oils.

 

I'll bet you can't explain that one. ;-p

 

> Not too many companies could tell you the name of the farmer who

> grew and harvested each plant used in their products - We can

> because we work hand-in-hand with our farmers.

 

This is pure bovine excrement .. and a take-off from Young Living's

bovine excrement. To be more clear .. IF you want to claim to be the

world leader in essential oils .. then this tidbit you've been told to

use as a part of the marketing hype is simply a LIE!! I have been in

the business of purchasing aromatic materials, contract-distilling and

export of essential oils since 1995 .. your statement is very similar to

a few I've heard from folks claim to be ex-SCUBA divers or Paratroopers

or combat veterans .. no matter how much they read on the subject .. no

matter how many of the correct buzz words they throw out during their

false claims .. they can't BS someone who has been there and done that.

 

> DEMETER CULTIVATION:

> In Demeter cultivation - as in all certified organic cultivation -

> no pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are used. DEMETER farmers,

> hjowever, also compost, use crop rotation, hand weed and utilize

> other specific preparations to enhance the growth of the plants.

 

True to a point. As its true that true followers of Islam detest the

idea of killing innocents .. particularly women and children. But that

point is lost somehow in recent events and it has nothing to do with the

face of the Islamic extremists we routinely see today .. just as the

ideal in production has nothing to do with the quality or certification

of a particular company's oils.

 

And before anyone gets jacked out of shape and calls me a bigot for my

statement on Islam .. they oughta know the difference between Moslems

who follow the teachings of the Koran and those who are Islamists. I

have spent more than a third of my life in a Moslem country and a good

many years in Islamic countries. In fact, I was married to a Moslem for

21 plus years .. she's now a Suthran Fried Baptist in Hotlanta, GA.

 

That statement was intended to preempt potential hostility. ;-)

 

> They obtain DEMETER quality essential oils and floral waters from

> Italy, France and Egypt.

 

Then .. they have a very narrow range of choices. Those three countries

don't produce that wide a range. Though Italy does buy oils from other

countries .. repackage them and claim Italy as country of origin. That

is authorized under the flakey European Union rules. I sell a minimum

of 500 kilos of Turkish Origanum vulgare .. and a smaller amount of

Turkish Rosmarinus officinalis, Cineole to an Italian buyer each month

and they legally pass it on to other European countries as Origin Italy.

 

AND .. I have seen companies offering oils with Origins from countries

that do NOT commerically produce that particular oil .. France is one

example and another can be found in a recent book discussing production

of Turkish Jasmine Absolute. There are some companies claiming to offer

Turkish Jasmine Absolute .. but the last time Turkish Jasmine Absolute

was produced was in 1985 .. on the Med .. in Antalya, Turkey .. by my

good buddy, Namit Mumcuoglu.

 

> NO AUTOSHIP:

> What if you ONLY HAD TO PURCHASE PRODUCT ONCE EVERY SIX MONTHS?

> Would that catch your interest? Well, look no further.

 

This is comical .. and I can see that you are new to this list because

if you had been around a while you would know that this is not a list of

amateur bumpkins who just got off the potato wagon yesterday.

 

> To request further information, please email me at:

> ventures

 

I guess your email address has nothing to do with the website that

shares that handle. http://www.ventures (AT) jccomp (DOT) com

 

Nope .. I didn't misread your spam or misinterpret your intent.

 

> Thanks

 

Welcome you are .. I thank you for presenting the spring board to allow

me to discharge some of my NEGATIVE ENERGY for a worthy cause. :-)

 

Lemme close by saying that most likely you are nice folks .. folks who

got wrapped up in something that might be too big for you to handle. If

I am right then in time you will begin to realize the error and you can

do something to correct it. I have many friends and customers who began

their aromatic journies with YL .. and after they were exposed to more

information from outside the organization they began to ask questions

that couldn't be answered from within. They are much smarter now cause

they've seen both sides of the elephant. I hope that is your situation.

 

I promise that if you continue MLM spam on this list or any other list

where serious and knowledgeable aromatherapists or even those getting

their feet wet with EO useage are members, you will not be warmly

welcomed .. don't take it personal .. but take it as a matter of fact.

 

Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com