Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 is playing silly buggers with my mail again and I didn't even see this message until I read Sandy's reply to this load of self righteous rubbish! " What did mothers do when there wasnt artificial milk? " Some used " wet nurses " others used the milk of cows, goats, whatever was handy, and if it wasn't handy and the mother couldn't nurse the baby died. Yeah Mother Nature! " This is pretty rare- most babies with cleft palates can indeed nurse- most of excuses are just that- excuses! " And an awful lot of them can't, even babies that are born with autism will sometimes choose not to nurse, too much stimulation. Bad mother for not forcing the baby to either breast feed or die. " That is unfortunate and sick- why does this exist in the first place? WHY DO WOMEN HAVE BREASTS?!?!? " For the pleasure of men. (can anyone tell I'm reigning myself In? It's bloody hard) " I dont agree- even the mom with the worst diets milk will be better than that in a can- and selfish women shouldnt have babies- if they dont care to nurture them.. " Bullshit. Mothers on medication for aids shouldn't nurse period, even those who aren't. Mothers doing chemo shouldn't nurse period. Women who believe that they are too fat and do the upchuck thing to get back in shape, should'nt and in most cases soon Can't. But Hell, Let's not allow them to be selfish shall we. They can come off their medication and die. That way she's not being selfish and the baby gets to spend a happy lifetime without a mother. As for bottle feeding mothers being selfish, again Bullshit! Do you know the statistics on child abuse by mothers? Even by your so called caring loving mothers who breastfed have been known to suffer from depression, schizophrenia, Bi-polar, all sorts of mental problems stemming from self esteem to being abused as children themselves . Breastfeeding a baby is no guarantee that a mother won't hit, humiliate, sell or even just plain abandon a child. That's a crock. " Okay- shoot me down- self righeous fringe of society freak that I am- funny- my husband and I were just talking about what radical naturalists we are- having our babies at home, nursing them and eating whole, pure food without GM genes in it! How absolutely radical! What has this world come to? " How bloody marvelous that you are so damn GOOD. You put the rest of us dreadful child abusing selfish women to shame. My Goodness, all of us who have had c-sections should be shot because it wasn't a cozy natural at home birth. Those of you who have had pre-eclampsya, it's slit your wrist time because of YOUR medication and hospital birth. Epidural women, stand up, and take it like the sissies you are! Death by Flogging. Those of you who have had vaccum births or forceps, that's right, it's your turn? Poison or hanging YOU get a choice. I'm so glad that there is an example of a pure wholesome woman willing to share the absolute joys of her lifestyle. I can see now that by following your example, your children will grow up healthy, caring, loving and sensitive people. Not to mention Self-righteous, self centered, egotistical and holier than thou! This selfish mother who has been know to feed her children canned " Chef Boyardee " , Pizza from the pizzaria, Macdonalds and Taco Bell, is going off line now. I've had a GUT FULL! NO Cheers here! What did mothers do when there wasnt artificial milk? Why do women have breasts? Why do women have babies if all they care about is their own " convenience " or " appeal " ? >Some babies aren't even >physically capable of nursing, especially those with severe >cleft palates >etc. This is pretty rare- most babies with cleft palates can indeed nurse- most of excuses are just that- excuses! >I've known women who were brought up in such a way that to >Breast Feed made >them feel so mentally uncomfortable that they would cry every >time the baby >wanted to feed. That is unfortunate and sick- why does this exist in the first place? WHY DO WOMEN HAVE BREASTS?!?!? >All this talk about special benefits that babies receive CAN be >true, but >sometimes it doesn't matter one bit. I dont agree- even the mom with the worst diets milk will be better than that in a can- and selfish women shouldnt have babies- if they dont care to nurture them.. Okay- shoot me down- self righeous fringe of society freak that I am- funny- my husband and I were just talking about what radical naturalists we are- having our babies at home, nursing them and eating whole, pure food without GM genes in it! How absolutely radical! What has this world come to? Cheers! Kathleen Petrides The Woobey Queen Woobey Tip: http://www.woobeyworld.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 What gets me is that if you feel so sure about what you do and have done, why get so upset when someone mentions another way? Defending your views to the point of getting this upset only shows that you have doubts yourself. Kathleen Petrides wrote: > is playing silly buggers with my mail again and I didn't even > see this > message until I read Sandy's reply to this load of self righteous > rubbish! > > " What did mothers do when there wasnt artificial milk? " > > Some used " wet nurses " others used the milk of cows, goats, whatever > was > handy, and if it wasn't handy and the mother couldn't nurse the baby > died. > Yeah Mother Nature! > > " This is pretty rare- most babies with cleft palates can indeed nurse- > most > of excuses are just that- excuses! " > > And an awful lot of them can't, even babies that are born with autism > will > sometimes choose not to nurse, too much stimulation. Bad mother for > not > forcing the baby to either breast feed or die. > > " That is unfortunate and sick- why does this exist in the first place? > WHY > DO > WOMEN HAVE BREASTS?!?!? " For the pleasure of men. > > (can anyone tell I'm reigning myself In? It's bloody hard) > > " I dont agree- even the mom with the worst diets milk will be better > than > that in a can- and selfish women shouldnt have babies- if they dont > care to > nurture them.. " > > Bullshit. Mothers on medication for aids shouldn't nurse period, even > those > who aren't. Mothers doing chemo shouldn't nurse period. Women who > believe > that they are too fat and do the upchuck thing to get back in shape, > should'nt and in most cases soon Can't. But Hell, Let's not allow them > to be > selfish shall we. They can come off their medication and die. That way > she's > not being selfish and the baby gets to spend a happy lifetime without > a > mother. > > As for bottle feeding mothers being selfish, again Bullshit! Do you > know the > statistics on child abuse by mothers? Even by your so called caring > loving > mothers who breastfed have been known to suffer from depression, > schizophrenia, Bi-polar, all sorts of mental problems stemming from > self > esteem to being abused as children themselves . Breastfeeding a baby > is no > guarantee that a mother won't hit, humiliate, sell or even just plain > abandon a child. That's a crock. > > " Okay- shoot me down- self righeous fringe of society freak that I am- > > funny- > my husband and I were just talking about what radical naturalists we > are- > having our babies at home, nursing them and eating whole, pure food > without > GM genes in it! How absolutely radical! What has this world come to? " > > How bloody marvelous that you are so damn GOOD. You put the rest of us > > dreadful child abusing selfish women to shame. My Goodness, all of us > who > have had c-sections should be shot because it wasn't a cozy natural at > home > birth. Those of you who have had pre-eclampsya, it's slit your wrist > time > because of YOUR medication and hospital birth. Epidural women, stand > up, and > take it like the sissies you are! Death by Flogging. Those of you who > have > had vaccum births or forceps, that's right, it's your turn? Poison or > hanging YOU get a choice. > > I'm so glad that there is an example of a pure wholesome woman willing > to > share the absolute joys of her lifestyle. I can see now that by > following > your example, your children will grow up healthy, caring, loving and > sensitive people. Not to mention Self-righteous, self centered, > egotistical > and holier than thou! > > This selfish mother who has been know to feed her children canned > " Chef > Boyardee " , Pizza from the pizzaria, Macdonalds and Taco Bell, is going > off > line now. I've had a GUT FULL! > > NO Cheers here! > -- <>< Erin HomeSchooling my Trio; 6 yo Entertainer, 5 yo Warrior, 3 yo Comedian Countdown to Sprout's Arrival: 4 weeks! Owner of http://www.edenessentials.com/store Like Pampered Chef? Get it for FREE! Email me, I'm a PC Independent Consultant. http://www.pamperedchef.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 >sigh< What YOU don't get? What I don't get is how another way of doing things is selfish, stupid, immoral etc. I don't understand and never have, the idea that there is only ONE way to do anything. Upset? Try angry. I have never liked anyone one trying to shove me or anyone else into their own personal narrow box. As for what I personally do, I'm not bothered one whit, however unlike some people, I understand that there is more than one way to raise a healthy, happy, loving child. I completely and utterly disagree with what has been said by Michell , it's my personal opinion that her views are too narrow. If you agree with her that the best way is her way, then I disagree with you too. However, so what?! This argument is not going to change the world or anyones mind. It's obviously very sensitive and emotive to more people than just me, so this is my last word on THIS subject. Time for something new in MY opinion. Carry on if you wish, I'm just going to take my toys and go home. Kathleen , Eden Essentials <eddi01@e...> wrote: > What gets me is that if you feel so sure about what you do and have > done, why get so upset when someone mentions another way? Defending your > views to the point of getting this upset only shows that you have doubts > yourself. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 At 05:07 PM 03/04/03, Eden Essentials wrote: >What gets me is that if you feel so sure about what you do and have >done, why get so upset when someone mentions another way? It's not because someone mentioned another way. It's because they claim that their way is the only *right* way, and that people who choose a different way are selfish. I'm thrilled for women who breast feed and enjoy it. Why can't they be thrilled for me and my choice? I made my choice and I'm happy with it. Why should I have to be called selfish because of it? -- Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 > What gets me is that if you feel so sure about what you do and have > done, why get so upset when someone mentions another way? Defending your > views to the point of getting this upset only shows that you have doubts > yourself. > I agree- and about chemo drugs, aids drugs, bulemia and all that other full swing of the pendulum argument- thats an entirely new pandoras box- and I wont even go there- and- most babies arent born with autism- but thats another pandoras box! all the other psychological disturbances mentioned are, again, part of the fragmented society- these mothers need support! AND- I certainly did not mean to offend anyone who had to have a c section- bless them- that must be frightening. OK Ill go now Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 > should I have to be called selfish because of it? > > -- Sandy That was indeed rude- I am sorry, but I dont understand... Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Please stop, I can't see straight through these tears in my eyes. What is the correct abbreviation, ROFLMAO Margaret (who did opt for the sissie epidural with the 3rd one ) <snip>Epidural women, stand up, and >take it like the sissies you are! Death by Flogging. Those of you who have >had vaccum births or forceps, that's right, it's your turn? Poison or >hanging YOU get a choice. _______________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 I said: > > Why should I have to be called selfish because of it? Michelle responded: >That was indeed rude- I am sorry, but I dont understand... Apology accepted. :-) I can see that you don't understand. But there are many reasons why a healthy woman would choose not to breast feed a healthy baby. My initial reason was because I was/am a working mom. We needed both of our paychecks to live on. I knew I'd have to go back to my secretarial job in 6 - 8 weeks, at which time the baby would have to use the bottle. I simply didn't want to go through the weaning, pumping, etc. So the answer to that dilemma was not to breast feed. It worked out fine. The doctor gave me a shot and I never had any milk. When I had my second child I put him to my breast once just to see what it felt like. I guess I wanted to see if I was really missing anything. I hated it. That let me know that I had made the right choice for me both times. Yes convenience was part of the choice... and it was the right choice for me *and* for my children. Breast feeding wasn't for me, but nurturing very much is. I really enjoyed caring for my children. Sometimes I miss those days. But not *too* much. :-) I get quite enough nurturing in with my grandchildren. I'm having a lot of fun with them. :-) When my daughter had her little boy a few years ago, she had a natural childbirth. She hadn't planned to do it that way, but whenever the nurse would ask her if the pain was too much, my daughter would say not yet... and she say she'd let her know if it got too bad. Then the baby arrived! She and I were both shocked and thrilled that she had gone through the whole thing naturally. I was thrilled for her. But if *I* had to go through childbirth again, I'd go for the epidural again in a heartbeat. I understand the miracle and wonder and power of my body, and I don't have a need to feel excruciating ongoing ever-worsening pain in order to appreciate the miracle. I guess I'm just a wuss. :-) Well... to sum up, there are many things a woman can do with regard to her children that would make me put her in the bad/selfish/uncaring (take your pick of adjectives) mother category. Choosing not to breastfeed definitely isn't one of them. -- Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Ok, what about us women who can't have children at all? I think this topic has gotten way out of hand! Let's just say that we all have our own ways, and leave it at that. It is not worth the hard feelings that this could cause if it continues. Kick it up a Notch! Enjoy Life! Rachelle Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Rachelle forgive me but I wanted to add to what you wrote and through my tears this was the easiest for me at this point. Rachelle said: >Ok, what about us women who can't have children at all? As a women who has no living natural children, I will say I have cried most of this afternoon reading these " rantings. " >I think this topic has gotten way out of hand! Let's just say that we all >have our own ways, and leave it at that. It seems to me some folks do not realize the blessings they have... Some of us who are not as fortunate to have been given the opportunity for the choices you are ranting about feel you all are far more fortunate than you realize and find it difficult to read your " there is only one right way " remarks. >It is not worth the hard feelings that this could cause if it continues. Earlier as I read through some of this thread I could not believe that loving mothers were so critical of their sisters. I have cried more tears this afternoon than I have cried in 30 years. I cried for the babies I lost. For the foster children I helped raised, for their parents situations and for all the unloved children I felt like I could her crying out. I don't know who decided their's was the only right way...but I have only one thing to say...from where I seat as long as you love a child with all you being the rest of it is just your opinion in your situation. Forgive me but I cry in hopes that your hearts will be softer toward one another. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 > I don't know who decided their's was the only right way...but I have only one > thing to say...from where I seat as long as you love a child with all you > being the rest > of it is just your opinion in your situation. > > Forgive me but I cry in hopes that your hearts will be softer toward one > another. > > Janet > janet thanks I must say I apologize to anyone whose feelings I have hurt- I am very fortunate to have the blessings I have. Being judgmental is not a way I aspire to be- I do feel strongly about the things I believe in- and it is obvious I came across the wrong way... Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 In a message dated 3/5/03 12:13:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, sepblnkts writes: > Have you ever seen the trauma, distraught appearance, the depression > that some women have gone thru who DID want to breast feed their child, > but for whatever reason could not? If you did, I am sure you would not > be so critical of others. > > I am one of them. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Michelle I have found your posts regarding *VERY* insulting, degrading of and to women who choose NOT to side with your views, condescending, and down right nasty & rude. I feel sorry for your children also, as if they disagree with you & your husband's views, the too will be condemned! How sad that they will not ever learn that there ARE differences in this world without having to feel guilty. I have 2 beautifully, healthy, intelligent sons, 23 & 12 - which I DID NOT BREAST FEED. I couldn't as I had a massively severe infection in my one breast that caused me to have surgery shortly after my first child was born. But I can hear you say, 'You could have feed him with the other breast.' I have also lost a child and also can no longer have any more children, so by you being so critical of other women who do not breast feed, you should state YOUR viewpoint in a more pleasant manner, and be VERY, VERY THANKFUL that you were blessed with your children. I know that I am thankful everyday for mine as I wanted to have more. I also know the pain of going thru fertility testing to see why I was not conceiving, (the 11 years between my 2 children was not by my choice), as well as the heartaches and traumas of my brother & his wife who are unable to have children. You see Michelle - your way is NOT the ONLY way. There are many valid reasons why one chooses not to breast feed - whether they are medical or personal. One must do what is best for THEM. Have you ever seen the trauma, distraught appearance, the depression that some women have gone thru who DID want to breast feed their child, but for whatever reason could not? If you did, I am sure you would not be so critical of others. I must get off my soapbox now before I end up with a migraine! Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 > I have found your posts regarding *VERY* insulting, degrading of and to > women who choose NOT to side with your views, condescending, and down > right nasty & rude. I wonder why if people are pure in their convictions they even care what I think! > I feel sorry for your children also, as if they disagree with you & your > husband's views, the too will be condemned! How can you make such an assumption? That is preposterous! > I have 2 beautifully, healthy, intelligent sons, 23 & 12 - which I DID > NOT BREAST FEED. I couldn't as I had a massively severe infection in my > one breast that caused me to have surgery I am sorry you did not have the support to heal your breast... Im glad your children are well. > I have also lost a child and also can no longer have any more children How can you assume that I have not lost pregnancies? > > You see Michelle - your way is NOT the ONLY way. I never said it was- I only said I did not understand why someone would choose not to nurse their baby....and I dont. >One must do what is best for THEM. Absolutely- and be informed about their decisions! Yikes what venom I have exposed- anyone who knows me would not agree with the fact that I am out to condemn others- I am out to share information- and nursing is something that I am radically in favor of! I have not commented on anyones fertility problems- I dont know where that came from...and I am VERY thankful for my children...every second of every day! Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Good Morning Ladies, I usually have the good sense to keep my mouth shut. Today I will for go that wisdom. I find it ironic and incredibly strange and sad that a disagreement of this proportion has continued for so long. This list is about healing and nurturing. Why the incredible discord??? Please agree to disagree. You will seem more mature for the effort. Warm Regards to All, Jan S www.sweetprairiesoap.com jans e-mail for paypal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Michelle You are totally useless It is truly a waste of my time to even answer you! I just shake my head and laugh on comments such as this one 'I am sorry you did not have the support to heal your breast...' > I feel sorry for your children also, as if they disagree with you & your husband's views, the too will be condemned! 'How can you make such an assumption? That is preposterous!' I can make this statement from your answers on this topic that you have given to others as well as myself. I am done with you and this topic Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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