Wintergreen EO

[Guest guest]

Hey Shivani,

 

> > Its NOT impossible to find true Birch or Wintergreen - but it's not

> > very likely you will because substituting Methyl salicylate at a

> > cost of less than $5 a pound is the norm - and its not unsafe or

> > unethical - unless the seller claims its the real thing and knows

> > it's not. Mot sellers make such claims. Do you know of any who

> > don't make such claims? Its generally not (methinks) because they

> > want to cheat you - they just flat don't know themselves - which I

> > think is a shame! - said Butch.

 

First .. what I wrote above is sorta out of context for the new folks. I

think I need to tell them WHY making wintergreen with Methyl salicyclate

in a lab is not unsafe or unethical.

 

The reason is that the lab made oil and the distilled oil is identical

in all respects .. the body uses/misuses it in the same way .. not the

case with many other synthetics .. and folks are used to getting the

manmade Birch and Wintergreen oil .. so there's nothing unethical about

it unless the seller pulls your leg on what they are really offering.

 

> The new Lerbermuth catalog offers certified organic wntergreen EO.

> About $15. an oz, $68 a lb. These folks come on as very reputable -

> in business since 1908, pictures of people working in white lab

> coats... and four grades of EOs.

 

Wintergreen EO typically sells for $10 or less a pound. I'm not very

impressed by folks working in white lab coats .. especially if they are

chemists working in a company that sells flavor oils, fragrance oils and

essential oils. My folks work in white lab coats too .. as does my

butcher and baker and the feller that slices meat off the roter to make

kebab sandwiches. But that is not saying anything against Lebermuth ..

just that white lab coats don't mean a heckuva lot. Odds are that the

folks in Gary Young's labs wear white lab coats too. ;-p

 

Nor does being in business a long time .. almost all Tobacco companies

and pharmaceutical companies in the USA are more than 100 years old.

Still .. that's not saying anything against Lebermuth .. just saying

that longevity is not much of a determining factor .. and in the case of

Lebermuth though they were founded in 1908 .. until the late 1980s or

early 1990s .. according to their website .. they " Focused on providing

decorative botanicals, herbs, spice and fragrances to the fast growing

home fragrance market. " ..

 

I bought a barrel of Certified Organic Sweet Orange from Lebermuth once

and it was super-fine oil .. so again, no negative comments on them.

 

> What do you think, Butch or others?

 

First .. the idea of Certified Organic Wintergreen EO is sorta like the

idea of a Pedigreed Toad Frog. What's the purpose? Wintergreen EO is

pure Methyl salicylate and it matters not if its distilled at a high

price or made with chemicals in a lab .. the effects and the potential

dangers are identical .. and the body will use .. or misuse .. it in the

same manner. And Toad Frogs aren't good to eat nor am I aware of any

Show Toads .. though there may be some .. same as CO Wintergreen. ;-)

 

In this case, you can't even tell by the use of Chiral analysis (much

more complicated than GC/MS) if its lab made or distilled because the

enantiomers aren't distinguished by chiral analysis .. they're identical

be they synthetic or naturally extracted.

 

My opinion is shared by TWO chemists I contacted today. Not gonna give

you their names either. ;-p One of them asked the Origin of the oil

and who certified it. I can't say cause Lebermuth doesn't give Origin

on their site. But odds are its Chinese .. and I would not trust any

certification by the Communist Chinese. I once saw an alleged Certified

Organic Lavender from Bulgaria .. didn't believe that one either.

 

But maybe Lebermuth does believe them.

 

> I would not use wintergreen in a stay-on-the-skin product, but have

> been thinking of making soap with it, as many love the smell.

> Anybody see a problem with using it this way? Shivani

 

I see a potential problem. Its a matter of frequency of use. If you

are making it for yourself you can control the frequency of use .. but

if you're selling it you cannot. Folks who like cosmetics, perfumes or

soaps are highly likely to use it often and continued use of any product

containing Methyl salicyclate is HAZARDOUS!

 

I think wintergreen should not be used at all .. matters not if its made

in a lab or distilled from aromatic plants and sold at very high prices.

Either will harm those who use it on a regular basis. It's TOXIC!

 

I won't use it or sell it but I won't criticize those who do. Some

folks might ask why I will sell other toxic oils like Eucalyptus and

Pennyroyal but not Wintergreen. The answer is because those other oils

are toxic only if you drink them .. they're not dermally toxic .. but

Wintergreen is.

 

And .. I think this subject is important enough that I want to repeat

the post I made on this list in June 2002. It'll be following.

 

Y'all keep smiling, Butch http://www.AV-AT.com